Slingloading & Longlining
Don't try to counter the swing by banking to he opposite side of the load, ie banking left when the load is on the right, as this will increase the swinging.
When the load is on the right, just go to the right, over the load, that will kill the swinging instantly.
Cheers
ATN
When the load is on the right, just go to the right, over the load, that will kill the swinging instantly.
Cheers
ATN
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I agree with ATN. The best way to stop a swinging load on any length line is to move the cyclic so as to position the helicopter over the load. Although a lateral swing is the most common swing it is possible for the load to swing in any direction but this technique will work regardless of direction of movement. When done correctly the swing will stop almost immediately. The technique can be learned quickly and a little practice will give you great confidence.
Should you ever encounter a swinging load that does not respond to this technique you should jettison the load before the load swings into the aircraft or full deflection of the controls occurs. Either is bad news.
Should you ever encounter a swinging load that does not respond to this technique you should jettison the load before the load swings into the aircraft or full deflection of the controls occurs. Either is bad news.
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I've found a small turn tidies up the movement, bigger the swing a bigger steeper turn usualy cancels out the swing. I would only ditch load as a last resort. Also getting of the load works too.
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Chances are, if you're in straight and level flight and the load starts swinging, you're going too fast. First things first, slow down. Each load will have a speed that works best for it, so when accelerating with a new load, do so smoothly and pay attention to how it reacts.
Also, when making turns, keep them co-ordinated.
RH
PS Jetesoning a load is the LAST resort, for a swing in straight and level you shouldn't have to punch it.
Also, when making turns, keep them co-ordinated.
RH
PS Jetesoning a load is the LAST resort, for a swing in straight and level you shouldn't have to punch it.
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always fly the load.that is get ya head out a watch it.. fly the load as if you are the load and are contolling the helicopter from the load..
if a swing starts stop it. if your watching the load you will be able to read the load and know what its doing
every load is different, by weight or dimensions and will behave differently..
the best way to control it has been stated above, slow down and position the machine over the load,,it works a treat.
if a swing starts stop it. if your watching the load you will be able to read the load and know what its doing
every load is different, by weight or dimensions and will behave differently..
the best way to control it has been stated above, slow down and position the machine over the load,,it works a treat.
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Get over the load, slow down. Its like a yo-yo, play with one, if you follow the ball and get right over the top of it , it stops swinging.
A salty ol guy told be once you should be able to stop any swing in a load with two moves...
it is true.
A salty ol guy told be once you should be able to stop any swing in a load with two moves...
it is true.
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PM'd advice from an old timer....
Real longlining is an art....rather than science. Key is to keep your eye on the load and fly the load not the helicopter per se.
An analogy is balancing a vertical stick on your outstretched palm...as the stick falls right....you have to move right to get back under it...which ever way the load goes...that is the direction the helicopter needs to go to stop the swing. Forget trimmed movements in forward flight....stick to cross controlled lateral movements to get over the load as it swings. If in forward flight....and a swing shows up...slow down a touch....or apply a bit of collective...up or down at the very bottom of the swing....not at the ends.
Lean way over....door off is best unless you have a bubble window....and set the seat higher and more forward than you would normally fly. (if possible).
You might even have to slide to the outside a bit and rotate your body to the rear so you can get a view that is square to the side of the aircraft
Find a reference point(s) on the aircraft which is center datum for the load and keep the load there by moving to the load with the aircraft. Once you have your target on the ground or track to be flown (assuming a firebucket)....fly the load to the target or along that desired track.
170' or 407Driver are probably better suited to help you out.....I qualify as a serial killer when it comes to longline flying.
If you are trying to use a mirror.....and assuming you are talking a longline....somewhere between 150-250 long....Vertical Reference is the best method and forget the mirror. Up to about 70' of line....a very good mirror setup might work. The real trick is to get your head out so you can see the load the entire time you are flying. Enroute I used to get inside but on hover, takeoff and approach....get outside.
The best way to practice is picking up a nice dense thus "stable" load....hover a few feet above a finite point....something that is easy to see and aim at.
Practice picking the load up to a ten foot hover....keep the load over the point....when you get bored or frustrated with that....pick two points a bit apart...and start landing the load on each point in rotation...back and forth....really focus on flying the load to the target in one smooth move rather than hover...move...hover...move...hover..move...the less time you hover the less the load will swing. Enough practice and the movements to fly the load will become second nature and thus just like hovering....much easier to do when you quit thinking about moving the controls.
If it becomes a dog's breakfast....go for tea and relax. Don't fight it.
I have worked with 300 foot lines a bit....they are in some ways easier than the shorter lines...as things happen much slower...but the delay between a movement at the top and a reaction at the bottom is significant.
Another hint....if you are using several lines joined together to make the longline....take some U channel or angle iron or metal pipe....and a bunch of duct tape and brace the joins with the bars/pipes and duct tape to make the line act as a single line vice two or three lines that move in the middle rather than only at the ends.
An analogy is balancing a vertical stick on your outstretched palm...as the stick falls right....you have to move right to get back under it...which ever way the load goes...that is the direction the helicopter needs to go to stop the swing. Forget trimmed movements in forward flight....stick to cross controlled lateral movements to get over the load as it swings. If in forward flight....and a swing shows up...slow down a touch....or apply a bit of collective...up or down at the very bottom of the swing....not at the ends.
Lean way over....door off is best unless you have a bubble window....and set the seat higher and more forward than you would normally fly. (if possible).
You might even have to slide to the outside a bit and rotate your body to the rear so you can get a view that is square to the side of the aircraft
Find a reference point(s) on the aircraft which is center datum for the load and keep the load there by moving to the load with the aircraft. Once you have your target on the ground or track to be flown (assuming a firebucket)....fly the load to the target or along that desired track.
170' or 407Driver are probably better suited to help you out.....I qualify as a serial killer when it comes to longline flying.
If you are trying to use a mirror.....and assuming you are talking a longline....somewhere between 150-250 long....Vertical Reference is the best method and forget the mirror. Up to about 70' of line....a very good mirror setup might work. The real trick is to get your head out so you can see the load the entire time you are flying. Enroute I used to get inside but on hover, takeoff and approach....get outside.
The best way to practice is picking up a nice dense thus "stable" load....hover a few feet above a finite point....something that is easy to see and aim at.
Practice picking the load up to a ten foot hover....keep the load over the point....when you get bored or frustrated with that....pick two points a bit apart...and start landing the load on each point in rotation...back and forth....really focus on flying the load to the target in one smooth move rather than hover...move...hover...move...hover..move...the less time you hover the less the load will swing. Enough practice and the movements to fly the load will become second nature and thus just like hovering....much easier to do when you quit thinking about moving the controls.
If it becomes a dog's breakfast....go for tea and relax. Don't fight it.
I have worked with 300 foot lines a bit....they are in some ways easier than the shorter lines...as things happen much slower...but the delay between a movement at the top and a reaction at the bottom is significant.
Another hint....if you are using several lines joined together to make the longline....take some U channel or angle iron or metal pipe....and a bunch of duct tape and brace the joins with the bars/pipes and duct tape to make the line act as a single line vice two or three lines that move in the middle rather than only at the ends.
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Part One...
Every time I tried to explain swings. I realised there’s a few steps that need to be covered first.
This is not a substitute for a good company-training plan. But it might help to prepare someone in advance. Or help someone who’s having problems getting the fine points sorted out!
It’s a long piece, because I think it’s necessary to establish basics.
In any kind of flying. If something starts getting bent out of shape consistently, just go back to basics and try to find where you’re going wrong.
Long lining 101: Pre-requisites…
The key to successful long line flying is being smooth. If you watch an experienced logging/seismic/drill pilot throwing the machine around, it’s easy to get a false impression of the skills needed. The speed came with lots of practice. Any attempt to go faster while learning, will either set you back in the learning process, or end in tears…
Just take it nice and easy, and always remember you have a line on! Long line capability can be one of the most useful attributes of a helicopter. But the learning process takes time.
Before the logging/seismic/drill guy got to the point of whizzing around, with things seemingly under control. They had to go step by step. And nobody just jumped in and mastered the technique. Yes! Some pick it up faster than others, but I don’t think this indicates who’s going to end up as a ‘Gun’ long liner (to quote some old Aussie mates)
Life will be a lot easier if you start out with some basic vertical reference (VR) without a line attached.
Start out, hovering in a high IGE hover with a safety pilot in the other seat.
Make vertical ascents and descents maintaining position by looking straight down . Bubble window or door off of course!
Personally, I always take off looking at a skid or wheel; correct any yaw by reference to the skid/wheel movement (shouldn’t be any, if you’re current and qualified) and transition to VR immediately.
(This is not helicopter flying 101, and some of my advice is contradictory to basic flying techniques, because LL is not basic flying)
Once you can lift off, and climb/descend vertically, maintaining a constant position over the ground!
Try OGE hovering looking straight down. Maintain a constant position over the ground and play with TR drift when changing power settings. Then start the ascent, descent thing again, up and down a hundred feet or more. I’m not suggesting you spend hours on this. Just a few exercises until you feel confident that you climb and descend in a truly vertical manner.
Caution: Read up on HV diagrams, you’re going to spend a lot of time in it. Understand what it does and doesn’t mean…It was pretty much covered in a recent post.
Next, Practice flying approaches with constant angles. i.e.
Line a bug smash up with the aiming point, and fly every approach as a constant angle. Be hard on yourself, and demand the most accurate constant angle approach you can. Try to get in the mode of minimum power changes, and try to minimize pedal input.
When you think your approaches are up to speed, think about doing some line flying.
Seat adjustment:
It’s really important that you get a comfortable seat position, where you can relax.
Try to avoid muscular tension, from trying to support yourself in an awkward position…
Like all helo flying, if you’re tense, it’s going to work against you…having said that!
Don’t expect to find a truly comfortable position very often. It’s a case of the most comfortable position available.
While you’re developing this skill, it’s a good idea to mark your seat position with a non-permanent CD marker pen. If you adjust for the next flight, re-mark the seat frame, but leave the original marks, until you find the most comfortable position for you! Try to remember to put the seat in this position every time you fly LL…At least in the beginning!
LL flying is really only trying to cope with a huge bunch of variables, so if we progressively remove the optional variables, we’re ahead of the game!
Something as simple as a changed seat position can make life harder in the early stages.
More to come! Length exceeds the maximum post limit
Every time I tried to explain swings. I realised there’s a few steps that need to be covered first.
This is not a substitute for a good company-training plan. But it might help to prepare someone in advance. Or help someone who’s having problems getting the fine points sorted out!
It’s a long piece, because I think it’s necessary to establish basics.
In any kind of flying. If something starts getting bent out of shape consistently, just go back to basics and try to find where you’re going wrong.
Long lining 101: Pre-requisites…
The key to successful long line flying is being smooth. If you watch an experienced logging/seismic/drill pilot throwing the machine around, it’s easy to get a false impression of the skills needed. The speed came with lots of practice. Any attempt to go faster while learning, will either set you back in the learning process, or end in tears…
Just take it nice and easy, and always remember you have a line on! Long line capability can be one of the most useful attributes of a helicopter. But the learning process takes time.
Before the logging/seismic/drill guy got to the point of whizzing around, with things seemingly under control. They had to go step by step. And nobody just jumped in and mastered the technique. Yes! Some pick it up faster than others, but I don’t think this indicates who’s going to end up as a ‘Gun’ long liner (to quote some old Aussie mates)
Life will be a lot easier if you start out with some basic vertical reference (VR) without a line attached.
Start out, hovering in a high IGE hover with a safety pilot in the other seat.
Make vertical ascents and descents maintaining position by looking straight down . Bubble window or door off of course!
Personally, I always take off looking at a skid or wheel; correct any yaw by reference to the skid/wheel movement (shouldn’t be any, if you’re current and qualified) and transition to VR immediately.
(This is not helicopter flying 101, and some of my advice is contradictory to basic flying techniques, because LL is not basic flying)
Once you can lift off, and climb/descend vertically, maintaining a constant position over the ground!
Try OGE hovering looking straight down. Maintain a constant position over the ground and play with TR drift when changing power settings. Then start the ascent, descent thing again, up and down a hundred feet or more. I’m not suggesting you spend hours on this. Just a few exercises until you feel confident that you climb and descend in a truly vertical manner.
Caution: Read up on HV diagrams, you’re going to spend a lot of time in it. Understand what it does and doesn’t mean…It was pretty much covered in a recent post.
Next, Practice flying approaches with constant angles. i.e.
Line a bug smash up with the aiming point, and fly every approach as a constant angle. Be hard on yourself, and demand the most accurate constant angle approach you can. Try to get in the mode of minimum power changes, and try to minimize pedal input.
When you think your approaches are up to speed, think about doing some line flying.
Seat adjustment:
It’s really important that you get a comfortable seat position, where you can relax.
Try to avoid muscular tension, from trying to support yourself in an awkward position…
Like all helo flying, if you’re tense, it’s going to work against you…having said that!
Don’t expect to find a truly comfortable position very often. It’s a case of the most comfortable position available.
While you’re developing this skill, it’s a good idea to mark your seat position with a non-permanent CD marker pen. If you adjust for the next flight, re-mark the seat frame, but leave the original marks, until you find the most comfortable position for you! Try to remember to put the seat in this position every time you fly LL…At least in the beginning!
LL flying is really only trying to cope with a huge bunch of variables, so if we progressively remove the optional variables, we’re ahead of the game!
Something as simple as a changed seat position can make life harder in the early stages.
More to come! Length exceeds the maximum post limit
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part 2
Fly the hook, not the helicopter!
This was what I was told when I started out! …I didn’t really get it then, and I don’t get it now… So, step-by step!
Let’s take a 100’ line as a starting point, some people suggest a 50’ line is better, but I think the slower motion of the 100’ line and not leaning out as far to see it, is probably more helpful at first…Like many things, there’s no right/wrong answer to this one!
When I’m long lining in production work, I use a 170’ line for everything, unless trees etc demand longer. This is the best combination for the way I fly. Getting up around 200-250’ and I get cranky waiting for the hook to catch up! Length is also determined by mission to a great extent. If you’re in a heavy or certain mediums, you need to go long for downwash issues.
What we have so far, is a comfortable seating position, and a LL of indeterminate length.
We know it hangs from the belly hook, which is behind and to the right or left, a little or a lot depending on a/c.
It’s all well and good to say “keep the helicopter over the hook”. But we need to be more specific…We need to keep the belly hook over the remote/manual hook, because that’s the place where the long line hook will hang, in a perfect OGE hover.
Because we have difficulty in knowing exactly where the belly hook is located, in reference to our seat position. We need an aid…this aid is called a:
Sight picture:
By this, I mean! An instinctive sense of where the hook should be in a perfect OGE hover…(from here on in, the´ hook´ refers to a remote hook, or the hook hanging from the business end of a long line)
In still wind. with the helo bolted to a skyhook. Absolutely no movement from the helicopter…the only place the hook can be, is directly beneath the belly hook…
OK…to get the sight picture.
Take a CD marker pen and put a few straight lines across the skids and cross tubes, anywhere you think will be in your peripheral vision, when looking straight down at the hook. Maybe mark each line with a number, say 1-10 along the skid and A-J along the cross tube…
Go into an OGE hover (or have another pilot do it from the other seat) and look down at the remote hook.
In this perfect hover…The hook hangs at the imaginary intersection of lines D cross-tube and 5-skid for example.
Hold the hover, and try to imprint this sight picture in your mind, with the aid of the index marks.
Remove the ones you don’t need on the next landing and leave the good index marks!
In future, anytime you’re told to “ fly the hook, not the helicopter”…
Fly the sight picture, not the helicopter
Depth perception comes more or less naturally. And imagining yourself sitting on the hook, makes no sense to me! How do you do that? I’ve been guilty of using that line as a throw away remark. But it makes no sense!
Departure:
Key points here are: Make sure the machine is in good shape.
When you come to the hover. Pause a few seconds, and really make sure you see no developing problems… (Especially when single pilot) because you’re going to be busy looking outside for a few minutes...
As you come up, move over the point where the line is leaving the ground.
With experience, you’ll learn to coil the line as you land. But in the beginning, just slide around, keeping the belly hook/sight picture, over the position where the line is leaving the surface…if you ever get snagged on a root etc. You’ll be in better shape when it’s only a vertical ‘grab’ …a horizontal ‘grab’ can drag you out of the sky!
Make sure the line/hook is well clear of the ground and obstacles before transitioning to forward flight.
Straight and Level :
Flying straight and level is not that difficult with a long line. The dangers of something flying up and snagging a TR or MR are much reduced. Experience will teach you at what speed you can use with varying loads.
When you’re still learning, a useful technique could be to increase your speed in 10 knot increments above say! 30 knots. Let it stabilize at the new speed for a little while, then go up another 10 knots…If things start getting funky, back it down 10, and go with that!
A lot of my experience is with logging. In this realm, (very dense load) speed is dictated by basic VNE, vibration, comfort level, or the ability to stop at the bottom of a short fly.
If I’m flying construction sheeting, or a 60’ diameter parabolic antenna, I might be limited to 20 kts. (Or less)
Typically, a bad swing while in cruise is just too much speed, although there are many times when going faster will straighten it out. But this is not something to play with in the early stages. Just presume you’re going too fast, and back it down a skoshe!
This was what I was told when I started out! …I didn’t really get it then, and I don’t get it now… So, step-by step!
Let’s take a 100’ line as a starting point, some people suggest a 50’ line is better, but I think the slower motion of the 100’ line and not leaning out as far to see it, is probably more helpful at first…Like many things, there’s no right/wrong answer to this one!
When I’m long lining in production work, I use a 170’ line for everything, unless trees etc demand longer. This is the best combination for the way I fly. Getting up around 200-250’ and I get cranky waiting for the hook to catch up! Length is also determined by mission to a great extent. If you’re in a heavy or certain mediums, you need to go long for downwash issues.
What we have so far, is a comfortable seating position, and a LL of indeterminate length.
We know it hangs from the belly hook, which is behind and to the right or left, a little or a lot depending on a/c.
It’s all well and good to say “keep the helicopter over the hook”. But we need to be more specific…We need to keep the belly hook over the remote/manual hook, because that’s the place where the long line hook will hang, in a perfect OGE hover.
Because we have difficulty in knowing exactly where the belly hook is located, in reference to our seat position. We need an aid…this aid is called a:
Sight picture:
By this, I mean! An instinctive sense of where the hook should be in a perfect OGE hover…(from here on in, the´ hook´ refers to a remote hook, or the hook hanging from the business end of a long line)
In still wind. with the helo bolted to a skyhook. Absolutely no movement from the helicopter…the only place the hook can be, is directly beneath the belly hook…
OK…to get the sight picture.
Take a CD marker pen and put a few straight lines across the skids and cross tubes, anywhere you think will be in your peripheral vision, when looking straight down at the hook. Maybe mark each line with a number, say 1-10 along the skid and A-J along the cross tube…
Go into an OGE hover (or have another pilot do it from the other seat) and look down at the remote hook.
In this perfect hover…The hook hangs at the imaginary intersection of lines D cross-tube and 5-skid for example.
Hold the hover, and try to imprint this sight picture in your mind, with the aid of the index marks.
Remove the ones you don’t need on the next landing and leave the good index marks!
In future, anytime you’re told to “ fly the hook, not the helicopter”…
Fly the sight picture, not the helicopter
Depth perception comes more or less naturally. And imagining yourself sitting on the hook, makes no sense to me! How do you do that? I’ve been guilty of using that line as a throw away remark. But it makes no sense!
Departure:
Key points here are: Make sure the machine is in good shape.
When you come to the hover. Pause a few seconds, and really make sure you see no developing problems… (Especially when single pilot) because you’re going to be busy looking outside for a few minutes...
As you come up, move over the point where the line is leaving the ground.
With experience, you’ll learn to coil the line as you land. But in the beginning, just slide around, keeping the belly hook/sight picture, over the position where the line is leaving the surface…if you ever get snagged on a root etc. You’ll be in better shape when it’s only a vertical ‘grab’ …a horizontal ‘grab’ can drag you out of the sky!
Make sure the line/hook is well clear of the ground and obstacles before transitioning to forward flight.
Straight and Level :
Flying straight and level is not that difficult with a long line. The dangers of something flying up and snagging a TR or MR are much reduced. Experience will teach you at what speed you can use with varying loads.
When you’re still learning, a useful technique could be to increase your speed in 10 knot increments above say! 30 knots. Let it stabilize at the new speed for a little while, then go up another 10 knots…If things start getting funky, back it down 10, and go with that!
A lot of my experience is with logging. In this realm, (very dense load) speed is dictated by basic VNE, vibration, comfort level, or the ability to stop at the bottom of a short fly.
If I’m flying construction sheeting, or a 60’ diameter parabolic antenna, I might be limited to 20 kts. (Or less)
Typically, a bad swing while in cruise is just too much speed, although there are many times when going faster will straighten it out. But this is not something to play with in the early stages. Just presume you’re going too fast, and back it down a skoshe!
Last edited by 170'; 9th Sep 2010 at 14:47.
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3rd and final part
Arrival:
Here’s where the real potential for problems begins.
The following advice is predicated on being smart enough to only accept a load within acceptable limits of both the OGE charts and personal capabilities. Plus the download of a couple of hundred pounds for the wife and kids (husband and kids?)
It doesn’t matter what the last pilot did or didn’t do. The guy telling you what the last pilot(s) did possibly has a room temperature IQ…you’re the PIC!
Like it or not, you have to make your presence felt. And people are not always going to like the calls you make. Especially when you’re young or look young.
Try to think of it as a character building excercise! And don’t take it personally. You’re not the first or last…” most worthless son of a bitch he’s ever had the pleasure to work with! “ ;-)
……………………………………………………………………………………………………..
The key to this whole deal is being smooth. Don’t let anyone or anything push you along faster than you want to go.
Set yourself up with the final approach you need under the existing circumstances. Get the constant approach angle going, to an aiming point beyond the drop zone. I can’t say a specific distance. But approximately 5-6 times the length of your long line works OK.. (Imagine the line running out horizontally from the drop zone).
This will give you a decent approach angle while you’re learning the fine points.
Don’t try to come in too steep, as then we introduce falling thru (settling with power) and we want to leave this optional variable out at the moment…
Later, as the line becomes less of a hassle, and you’re looking for production figures. You’ll work a lot in down-flow, and learn to accept a certain amount of falling thru as just part of the working day.
Settling with power is common in the production world. Just another flight regime that you accept and live with, moving out of the condition smoothly! (Well, sometimes less than smoothly, but it’s a good idea to get out of it ;-)
This approach angle I’m suggesting is only an initial angle to get you started down. (Presuming you came from somewhere distant with the load).
If you get the constant angle established early. Power will be reasonably constant, and you can concentrate on an effective approach angle. I’m talking long final distance at this point.
As you start getting closer in and you wait too long to bring in the power, you end up with variables we don’t need. So start trading airspeed for sink rate (reducing both) at a very slow, but consistent rate. Minimizing pedal input if possible.
Ideally, we want to fly the load exactly where it needs to go on the first approach.
If you’ve downloaded the cargo weight as I suggest (while training and early working days) and are in up-flow or into wind. It’s better to be too high than too low, or better to be over shooting than undershooting…
The hardest thing for a new LL pilot is to land too short and wobble it in…It breeds bad habits, that will take a long time to shake. If you’re a little high and can stabilize the hover over the drop zone, it’s just a case of a slow descent and you’re there!
Key words are “If you’re a little high”
Don’t try coming over the top and vertically descending 200’ (hook height ;-))
If you’re just loading a truck or such, then basically start at:
Controlling the swing.
If the hook is outbound, any direction, from the position directly beneath the Sight picture.
Move the ´sight picture´ out with it; you can pursue the little devil aggressively on the outbound swing.
But only before it reaches its swing limit?
If you are not over the top completely, at or just before it reaches maximum out swing. Stop the pursuit. And change the direction; follow it smoothly in the other direction! ...continue chasing it, slowly imparting a braking force.
In other words; slow the helo down, but very smoothly, and as you slow the hook down, try to match the ´rate of change´ of the hook, with the Sight Picture
(Remember, any minor errors you make on the out swing, will have minimal effect, relative to the in swing)
At the critical moment of change, (out swing limit) you’re aiming to have the sight picture, directly over the hook…Any small out of alignment, should only give a very minimum swing. A brief ascent or descent will nail it…. Briefly ;-)
A little swing is nearly always present, no matter how good you are. It’s rare that anyone can keep it in a perfect position for too long, so don’t worry about it too much. Any accuracy beyond this minimum swing is luck…. or lots of practice and LUCK!
If you apply any energy to the hook as it’s inbound to the sight picture position. You’re going to accelerate the hook in the wrong direction. In fact, the only thing you can do on its inbound swing is to increase the vertical component of its movement. Thereby reducing its horizontal component…
Ok some experienced guys will point out that this is far from true, but it’s better to try to get it right, than try to recover. And I don’t want to muddy the waters any more than necessary…
Now this is where it gets tricky.
The hook (weight) always wants to go straight down! No surprises there?
So, at approaching max outswing… if you’re nearly there, but didn’t quite make it.
You can give a smooth short pull/push on the collective, either direction depending on height available/needed. And when the hook is moving vertically. Slide the sight picture over the top and Bingo!
Repeat a few thousand times! ;-)…..Easy-Peasy!
No! Not really…It’s a frustrating process and you’ll normally struggle for quite a while.
Then one day you’ll wake up and think…(favorite expletive) I can’t remember the last time I was having trouble with the line…apart from the occasional hiccup we all experience from time to time…!
Hope this is some help!
Ps…As Remote Hook say’s. Punching a load off is the last thing in the armory, and I mean the very last thing… something was overlooked in the basics department, or you wouldn’t get in a ‘punch off scenario’…At least not often; any seasoned long line guy would typically go a real long time without jettisoning a load.
I’ve tried to write this for someone who’s serious about trying to get into longline work.
And try to get competent as fast as possible. Most of us just learned by watching, and then trial and error. But I’d be interested in any feedback from anyone who tries these tips. There just something I’ve been thinking about for a long time.
A little advice for those who want to get into production longlining.
There´s some good money to be made in this field. Superior to anything else I found in the helicopter world. But to get it? You’ve got to take it seriously. And put in a lot of effort. You need to be quick and smooth, but professional in everything you do. Which is not always easy, given the environment?
What the long line world doesn’t need. Is another pilot stumbling around in partial control of the line? Time and again, I´ve heard people on forums minimize the time and effort needed to become a long line pilot.
When people say that you’ll be a good long line pilot in a relatively quick time.
I think they mean in comparison to them…
All the best! 170’
Here’s where the real potential for problems begins.
The following advice is predicated on being smart enough to only accept a load within acceptable limits of both the OGE charts and personal capabilities. Plus the download of a couple of hundred pounds for the wife and kids (husband and kids?)
It doesn’t matter what the last pilot did or didn’t do. The guy telling you what the last pilot(s) did possibly has a room temperature IQ…you’re the PIC!
Like it or not, you have to make your presence felt. And people are not always going to like the calls you make. Especially when you’re young or look young.
Try to think of it as a character building excercise! And don’t take it personally. You’re not the first or last…” most worthless son of a bitch he’s ever had the pleasure to work with! “ ;-)
……………………………………………………………………………………………………..
The key to this whole deal is being smooth. Don’t let anyone or anything push you along faster than you want to go.
Set yourself up with the final approach you need under the existing circumstances. Get the constant approach angle going, to an aiming point beyond the drop zone. I can’t say a specific distance. But approximately 5-6 times the length of your long line works OK.. (Imagine the line running out horizontally from the drop zone).
This will give you a decent approach angle while you’re learning the fine points.
Don’t try to come in too steep, as then we introduce falling thru (settling with power) and we want to leave this optional variable out at the moment…
Later, as the line becomes less of a hassle, and you’re looking for production figures. You’ll work a lot in down-flow, and learn to accept a certain amount of falling thru as just part of the working day.
Settling with power is common in the production world. Just another flight regime that you accept and live with, moving out of the condition smoothly! (Well, sometimes less than smoothly, but it’s a good idea to get out of it ;-)
This approach angle I’m suggesting is only an initial angle to get you started down. (Presuming you came from somewhere distant with the load).
If you get the constant angle established early. Power will be reasonably constant, and you can concentrate on an effective approach angle. I’m talking long final distance at this point.
As you start getting closer in and you wait too long to bring in the power, you end up with variables we don’t need. So start trading airspeed for sink rate (reducing both) at a very slow, but consistent rate. Minimizing pedal input if possible.
Ideally, we want to fly the load exactly where it needs to go on the first approach.
If you’ve downloaded the cargo weight as I suggest (while training and early working days) and are in up-flow or into wind. It’s better to be too high than too low, or better to be over shooting than undershooting…
The hardest thing for a new LL pilot is to land too short and wobble it in…It breeds bad habits, that will take a long time to shake. If you’re a little high and can stabilize the hover over the drop zone, it’s just a case of a slow descent and you’re there!
Key words are “If you’re a little high”
Don’t try coming over the top and vertically descending 200’ (hook height ;-))
If you’re just loading a truck or such, then basically start at:
Controlling the swing.
If the hook is outbound, any direction, from the position directly beneath the Sight picture.
Move the ´sight picture´ out with it; you can pursue the little devil aggressively on the outbound swing.
But only before it reaches its swing limit?
If you are not over the top completely, at or just before it reaches maximum out swing. Stop the pursuit. And change the direction; follow it smoothly in the other direction! ...continue chasing it, slowly imparting a braking force.
In other words; slow the helo down, but very smoothly, and as you slow the hook down, try to match the ´rate of change´ of the hook, with the Sight Picture
(Remember, any minor errors you make on the out swing, will have minimal effect, relative to the in swing)
At the critical moment of change, (out swing limit) you’re aiming to have the sight picture, directly over the hook…Any small out of alignment, should only give a very minimum swing. A brief ascent or descent will nail it…. Briefly ;-)
A little swing is nearly always present, no matter how good you are. It’s rare that anyone can keep it in a perfect position for too long, so don’t worry about it too much. Any accuracy beyond this minimum swing is luck…. or lots of practice and LUCK!
If you apply any energy to the hook as it’s inbound to the sight picture position. You’re going to accelerate the hook in the wrong direction. In fact, the only thing you can do on its inbound swing is to increase the vertical component of its movement. Thereby reducing its horizontal component…
Ok some experienced guys will point out that this is far from true, but it’s better to try to get it right, than try to recover. And I don’t want to muddy the waters any more than necessary…
Now this is where it gets tricky.
The hook (weight) always wants to go straight down! No surprises there?
So, at approaching max outswing… if you’re nearly there, but didn’t quite make it.
You can give a smooth short pull/push on the collective, either direction depending on height available/needed. And when the hook is moving vertically. Slide the sight picture over the top and Bingo!
Repeat a few thousand times! ;-)…..Easy-Peasy!
No! Not really…It’s a frustrating process and you’ll normally struggle for quite a while.
Then one day you’ll wake up and think…(favorite expletive) I can’t remember the last time I was having trouble with the line…apart from the occasional hiccup we all experience from time to time…!
Hope this is some help!
Ps…As Remote Hook say’s. Punching a load off is the last thing in the armory, and I mean the very last thing… something was overlooked in the basics department, or you wouldn’t get in a ‘punch off scenario’…At least not often; any seasoned long line guy would typically go a real long time without jettisoning a load.
I’ve tried to write this for someone who’s serious about trying to get into longline work.
And try to get competent as fast as possible. Most of us just learned by watching, and then trial and error. But I’d be interested in any feedback from anyone who tries these tips. There just something I’ve been thinking about for a long time.
A little advice for those who want to get into production longlining.
There´s some good money to be made in this field. Superior to anything else I found in the helicopter world. But to get it? You’ve got to take it seriously. And put in a lot of effort. You need to be quick and smooth, but professional in everything you do. Which is not always easy, given the environment?
What the long line world doesn’t need. Is another pilot stumbling around in partial control of the line? Time and again, I´ve heard people on forums minimize the time and effort needed to become a long line pilot.
When people say that you’ll be a good long line pilot in a relatively quick time.
I think they mean in comparison to them…
All the best! 170’
Last edited by 170'; 18th Sep 2010 at 19:50.
Very good, 170', if you don't mind I'll add your three-part to my notes.
Couple of other things I've noticed, lowering the collective slightly seems to put the load out in front of you, raising it puts it behind. You can put it out front a bit coming in, then fly over top of it as it stops - dang, this isn't as easy to write about as I thought. Makes sense once you've experienced it, but anyone who hasn't tried it probably has no idea what I'm talking about.
Before I lift off I have the line all laid out with the hook beside the pilot's skid. Reminds me that I have a line on (saves the embarassment or the swim as the case may be), also makes it easy to pick the line up without dragging it, and makes sure there are no kinks in it. Landing same thing - put the hook on the ground beside where you want the pilot window, that way you know before you get down that the tail-rotor will be in the clear. Nice to watch the really practiced guys coil it up.
I use the shadow of the hook on the ground to help judge the height, good in Canada when the sun shines, maybe not so much on the Equator at noon. Also if you are trying to put the hook into someone's hand on a sideslope you can look at the tilt of the ground ape's hardhat to see if he is looking up at the hook or down.
I practiced out in the bush with a 100' and an old truck tire where I could be humbled in privacy.
Couple of other things I've noticed, lowering the collective slightly seems to put the load out in front of you, raising it puts it behind. You can put it out front a bit coming in, then fly over top of it as it stops - dang, this isn't as easy to write about as I thought. Makes sense once you've experienced it, but anyone who hasn't tried it probably has no idea what I'm talking about.
Before I lift off I have the line all laid out with the hook beside the pilot's skid. Reminds me that I have a line on (saves the embarassment or the swim as the case may be), also makes it easy to pick the line up without dragging it, and makes sure there are no kinks in it. Landing same thing - put the hook on the ground beside where you want the pilot window, that way you know before you get down that the tail-rotor will be in the clear. Nice to watch the really practiced guys coil it up.
I use the shadow of the hook on the ground to help judge the height, good in Canada when the sun shines, maybe not so much on the Equator at noon. Also if you are trying to put the hook into someone's hand on a sideslope you can look at the tilt of the ground ape's hardhat to see if he is looking up at the hook or down.
I practiced out in the bush with a 100' and an old truck tire where I could be humbled in privacy.
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Mmmmmm all very good info ...
Used to love watching the Columbia Vertol drivers (in PNG) fly in for refuels....
200' line .... arrive o'head ...put hook in bucket .... coil line around bucket .... land beside bucket ....BEAUTIFUL !!!
Me ! I'd be lucky if I could see the bucket let alone put the hook in it !!!!
Cheers
Used to love watching the Columbia Vertol drivers (in PNG) fly in for refuels....
200' line .... arrive o'head ...put hook in bucket .... coil line around bucket .... land beside bucket ....BEAUTIFUL !!!
Me ! I'd be lucky if I could see the bucket let alone put the hook in it !!!!
Cheers
Longest long line?
Have an idea for a shot where we sling a stabilised video camera over a herd of wild animals.
(after laughter subsides)
100kg package.
Ideal height of helicopter is 1000 ft AGL !
(more laughter)
Is this totally out of the question?
Camera needs to be 50ft or less above the herd.
Hover and 10-20 knots required.
Varience in height or swinging around of payload not a huge issue.
Payload touching bumping ground (say up to 2 Gs) not a problem
Video feed to pilots monitor would be possible.
If/How would you fly it?
Would Rad alt be usefull?
Would a distance sensor on the payload help?
If so what kind?
Once we get the angle right we would have to hold position for about a minute.
Another idea is to lower the camera, sitting on a frame six feet in height onto the ground in the middle of the herd.
After you've picked yourself up off the floor......!
Mickjoebill
(after laughter subsides)
100kg package.
Ideal height of helicopter is 1000 ft AGL !
(more laughter)
Is this totally out of the question?
Camera needs to be 50ft or less above the herd.
Hover and 10-20 knots required.
Varience in height or swinging around of payload not a huge issue.
Payload touching bumping ground (say up to 2 Gs) not a problem
Video feed to pilots monitor would be possible.
If/How would you fly it?
Would Rad alt be usefull?
Would a distance sensor on the payload help?
If so what kind?
Once we get the angle right we would have to hold position for about a minute.
Another idea is to lower the camera, sitting on a frame six feet in height onto the ground in the middle of the herd.
After you've picked yourself up off the floor......!
Mickjoebill
At 1000ft AGL i have problems to see the end of the 950 ft line ...
The longest i have flown was 350ft and from this point i stopped smoking during longline ops
But i see no problems to fly pleasure circuits with a 950ft line in 2000ft...
The longest i have flown was 350ft and from this point i stopped smoking during longline ops
But i see no problems to fly pleasure circuits with a 950ft line in 2000ft...
Last edited by tecpilot; 21st Nov 2006 at 18:05.
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MJB
an interesting post for sure, I've heard of people peering through hedges to perve on 'wild animals', but to be carting around a close up camera attached to an innocent looking flying machine way up there, wow!!
And the suggestion of no expense spared, distance sensors etc, NTM the extra weight factor, seems your client is happy to go to great lengths to get his rocks off.
Serious Q, would the tensile strength / vs and or the weight of the line become very much a cause for concern at that length? or would you couple lighter lines as you extended?
I sure would hate to see a line snap around rotor length plus a bit below your machine. Gives me the horrors to think about it.
Do any regs cover that aspect of line specs other than the usual - thou shalt not use stretch rope etc?
It could be decidely unsavory to be ravaged by a pack of wild animals after falling mongst their midst!!!!
cheers tet
an interesting post for sure, I've heard of people peering through hedges to perve on 'wild animals', but to be carting around a close up camera attached to an innocent looking flying machine way up there, wow!!
And the suggestion of no expense spared, distance sensors etc, NTM the extra weight factor, seems your client is happy to go to great lengths to get his rocks off.
Serious Q, would the tensile strength / vs and or the weight of the line become very much a cause for concern at that length? or would you couple lighter lines as you extended?
I sure would hate to see a line snap around rotor length plus a bit below your machine. Gives me the horrors to think about it.
Do any regs cover that aspect of line specs other than the usual - thou shalt not use stretch rope etc?
It could be decidely unsavory to be ravaged by a pack of wild animals after falling mongst their midst!!!!
cheers tet
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we usually get new co-pilots (they get 200hrs is school) at the end of the summer, during the winter they complete type rating training for Mi-8t and Mi-8mtv1 (30hrs), and get some flight time during usual missions. at he end of the spring we start preparation for fire-fighting season. for young co-pilots it means they get several training flights (2-4flights for copilot, 1 for captain, each 30min) for hoist operations (10-25m), after which they start short line (10m with 2500kg concrete block) one or two flights, after that we start fire-fighting bucket training (25m-2500kg) usually 2-3 flights for copilots, 1-2 for captains.
when we have time for advanced training we train night hoist (25m) one to two flights and instrument approach to a spot on a sea and instrument hover (25m) usually two flights.
so far this training was good for us, and we did lots of flying with mountain rescue service and longest line that i tried was 50m, usual 25-30m
when we have time for advanced training we train night hoist (25m) one to two flights and instrument approach to a spot on a sea and instrument hover (25m) usually two flights.
so far this training was good for us, and we did lots of flying with mountain rescue service and longest line that i tried was 50m, usual 25-30m
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Interesting application of longlining
Found this on Youtube. Seems like pretty neat vertical reference work on a longish strop.
Last edited by Senior Pilot; 3rd Apr 2009 at 20:54. Reason: embed YouTube link
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Underslung load jobs
What are the advantages of having a load indication system that can display your underslung load to you in the cockpit?What I mean is that even though more information never hurt anyone, but is that information very useful in light helicopter with max underslung capacity in the 1.5 ton regime. Is there anyone out there who has utilised such a system and tell me its pluses and minuses?