Slingloading & Longlining
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Age: 72
Posts: 4,159
Likes: 0
Received 29 Likes
on
14 Posts
Well, a lot depends on the type of longlining - you have operational longlining, which just about any competent pilot can do with a little training and planning, there's precision longlining, which pretty much means what it says, and there's production longlining, which is like poetry in motion when done properly and takes at least a week to get into before you can be productive.
For the basics, you don't even need to have your head out of the door too much - set your altimeter to 0, when you come up to the length of the line expect it to get taut, when it does, keep going up until you cleared the height of the obstacles you checked beforehand and away you go. Just make sure you have a good margin of power, 'cos you're doing a towering takeoff. At this stage you might want to stick your head out to check the load is off the ground and maybe guide it around a couple of trees (or not nearly hit a hovering eagle up the *rse as I nearly once did
), but it's not essential.
Coming back to the ground is the interesting bit, and you should always have the load moving, even if it is only up or down. Again, you know the height of the obstacles, and the landing pad, so you're using your altimeter again, and you should aim to get the load going slightly in front of you so the effect is that it's pulling you toward the spot, albeit slowly.
You can line yourself up over the landing spot in general by using a marker in front and one to the side - only in the later stages do you need your head out for more precise positioning, and even then just a quick look.
If you fly crabbed off, the sideways presentation of the fuselage will help slow you down, as will use of the collective only, as used in mountains. Particularly important is to coordinate the controls together just before you plonk the load on the ground, especially in a 350/355. If you use collective, then pedals, you will get a swing immediately. Keep that nose straight!
Longlining isn't rocket science, but, like piano playing, the essence is in the practice, not so much the method, and it is something you need to keep current on.
The most satisfying bit to me is getting the empty hook right next to the rigger's hand!
Phil
For the basics, you don't even need to have your head out of the door too much - set your altimeter to 0, when you come up to the length of the line expect it to get taut, when it does, keep going up until you cleared the height of the obstacles you checked beforehand and away you go. Just make sure you have a good margin of power, 'cos you're doing a towering takeoff. At this stage you might want to stick your head out to check the load is off the ground and maybe guide it around a couple of trees (or not nearly hit a hovering eagle up the *rse as I nearly once did
), but it's not essential.Coming back to the ground is the interesting bit, and you should always have the load moving, even if it is only up or down. Again, you know the height of the obstacles, and the landing pad, so you're using your altimeter again, and you should aim to get the load going slightly in front of you so the effect is that it's pulling you toward the spot, albeit slowly.
You can line yourself up over the landing spot in general by using a marker in front and one to the side - only in the later stages do you need your head out for more precise positioning, and even then just a quick look.
If you fly crabbed off, the sideways presentation of the fuselage will help slow you down, as will use of the collective only, as used in mountains. Particularly important is to coordinate the controls together just before you plonk the load on the ground, especially in a 350/355. If you use collective, then pedals, you will get a swing immediately. Keep that nose straight!
Longlining isn't rocket science, but, like piano playing, the essence is in the practice, not so much the method, and it is something you need to keep current on.
The most satisfying bit to me is getting the empty hook right next to the rigger's hand!
Phil
Phil,
I settle for getting the whole line and helicopter back to the landing....but I will settle for anywhere in the same county.
Poetry in motion ....I am not.....it is an art....not a science.
I settle for getting the whole line and helicopter back to the landing....but I will settle for anywhere in the same county.
Poetry in motion ....I am not.....it is an art....not a science.
We use long lines / vertical reference with remote hook on a 500. Normally use 100 ft or 50 ft depending upon job. Got some good pix on my website www.ahhelicopters.co.uk look under loadlifting.PACO you might recognise the feature - not too far from Bristol !
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: North of Eq
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
STAYING ALIVE
Thank God for 170’!!
With his CV maybe someone will listen, and stay alive as a result. I endorse everything he said with regard to VR long lining; in SPADES!!
I would add only two things.
1. You MUST have your head out of the door / in the bubble on every approach from at least 100ft hook height above the ground/ treetops…or sooner or later you will get yourself KILLED.
2. If you are a long line pilot, and you are carrying passengers, every time you come up, look out the bubble/door and say…I DON’T have a line on… or sooner or later you will get yourself KILLED.
Long lining is the most satisfying helicopter flying you can do. When you put the empty hook in the ground crew’s hand at the end of the approach it feels wonderful..anything else and you know that next time you must do better.
With his CV maybe someone will listen, and stay alive as a result. I endorse everything he said with regard to VR long lining; in SPADES!!
I would add only two things.
1. You MUST have your head out of the door / in the bubble on every approach from at least 100ft hook height above the ground/ treetops…or sooner or later you will get yourself KILLED.
2. If you are a long line pilot, and you are carrying passengers, every time you come up, look out the bubble/door and say…I DON’T have a line on… or sooner or later you will get yourself KILLED.
Long lining is the most satisfying helicopter flying you can do. When you put the empty hook in the ground crew’s hand at the end of the approach it feels wonderful..anything else and you know that next time you must do better.
There's a VR pilot talking!
You can tell when a guy has ridden in a crummy or two....tossing beer cans out the window and spitting tobacco juice on the floor.
You can tell when a guy has ridden in a crummy or two....tossing beer cans out the window and spitting tobacco juice on the floor.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Chilliwack, BC Canada
Posts: 564
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well posted 170', that was a very entertaining, accurate and honest rendition.
There's longline pilots and then there's the true production longline pilots.
There's longline pilots and then there's the true production longline pilots.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Age: 72
Posts: 4,159
Likes: 0
Received 29 Likes
on
14 Posts
Good post 170', and all points taken, but your instruments and all pieces of information are there to be used. I certainly don't agree that you will kill yourself if you use the altimeter. Sure, you can reduce its importance in your scan once you get proficient, but when you're learning it is a very useful tool.
I always disconnect the line (and cable) when I land and connect it again before taking off.
Hidden Agenda - it's nice to have your head out if you can, but you can't in an Astar (I know you know that, but some here don't), hence the suggestion of not looking out. By the time I got to an official course (Remote Helis), that's the way I was taught. In a country where they don't have a hole in the floor, so there's no point in having the doors off, like UK, it works fine. Again, I don't think it will KILL you - I'm still here. It all depends on you buying into the rush and panic from the guys on the ground.
Now, I know a few readers are itching to try this, but in the spirit of helping you not to kill yourselves, as there's nobody here can stop you, here's the Northern Mountain starting longline course (i.e. how to get going with no training at all - I got this from an experienced longliner):
Get into a high hover at about the length of a line, without a line attached, and practice spot turns with your head out of the door, keeping the belly hook over the target (it is behind you!). Try a bit of ascending and descending as well, but this is probably best done with a line on, which you can use as a reference. Watch out for the left drift in a 206.
Next, get used to landing and taking off by looking at the back of your skid, so you avoid the transition from vertical to horizontal reference (if you do have to transition, do it as slowly as possible, from vertical to lateral to horizontal, and vice versa). Maybe do a circuit or two, as well. This also helps you if the engine stops, with no time to start looking horizontally - just moving your focus from the load to the instruments, or the other way round, takes about two seconds each way, let alone reorganising your whole body.
Next, graduate to a line with a lightly loaded cargo net, followed by a heavier one, finally working up to an unloaded hook. You will find that, up to a point, the heavier the load is, the easier longlining is to do.
One last thing - get used to the sound of a 206L gearbox at 100%!
Phil
I always disconnect the line (and cable) when I land and connect it again before taking off.
Hidden Agenda - it's nice to have your head out if you can, but you can't in an Astar (I know you know that, but some here don't), hence the suggestion of not looking out. By the time I got to an official course (Remote Helis), that's the way I was taught. In a country where they don't have a hole in the floor, so there's no point in having the doors off, like UK, it works fine. Again, I don't think it will KILL you - I'm still here. It all depends on you buying into the rush and panic from the guys on the ground.
Now, I know a few readers are itching to try this, but in the spirit of helping you not to kill yourselves, as there's nobody here can stop you, here's the Northern Mountain starting longline course (i.e. how to get going with no training at all - I got this from an experienced longliner):
Get into a high hover at about the length of a line, without a line attached, and practice spot turns with your head out of the door, keeping the belly hook over the target (it is behind you!). Try a bit of ascending and descending as well, but this is probably best done with a line on, which you can use as a reference. Watch out for the left drift in a 206.
Next, get used to landing and taking off by looking at the back of your skid, so you avoid the transition from vertical to horizontal reference (if you do have to transition, do it as slowly as possible, from vertical to lateral to horizontal, and vice versa). Maybe do a circuit or two, as well. This also helps you if the engine stops, with no time to start looking horizontally - just moving your focus from the load to the instruments, or the other way round, takes about two seconds each way, let alone reorganising your whole body.
Next, graduate to a line with a lightly loaded cargo net, followed by a heavier one, finally working up to an unloaded hook. You will find that, up to a point, the heavier the load is, the easier longlining is to do.
One last thing - get used to the sound of a 206L gearbox at 100%!
Phil
Last edited by paco; 14th Jul 2005 at 07:51.
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think that the AS350 with the floor window is one of the most comfortable platforms for Vertical reference work. I admit when I first started out I hated that window and thaught I would never get a handle on it, but after a few hundred hours and the odd scare I think I can swing with the best of them. I have to say for production line work it is probably my favourite. Nothing like a nice warm cabin on a -30 day. No back ache and room to move. I guess it comes down to "each to thier own" but for me its 130ft all the way.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Chilliwack, BC Canada
Posts: 564
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think that the AS350 with the floor window is one of the most comfortable platforms for Vertical reference work.
If you're on seismic, I believe that you could be one of the best 350 VR guys, but the facts are...most average joes who try it, never get good with the pacman window. They don't do enough and only get by.
I also agree, go big or go home, the longer line the better in a 350, or for that matter any aircraft. I was at 9,500' all day yesterday, not a tree in sight, but still used a 100', just because it makes the job go faster, safer and easier.
What was it some guy said....when you pick up....look outside and tell yourself about the longline....or words to that effect? Must be the Hamms you quaffed getting yer tape out of the boot!
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Age: 72
Posts: 4,159
Likes: 0
Received 29 Likes
on
14 Posts
Hey 170', no problem, your post was a good one! As long as we all get to the same place, who cares how we get there? Can I use the bones of it on my CRM courses? People seem fascinated about how the other half live, and tales like yours go down well!
Best of luck with that medic...
Phil
Best of luck with that medic...
Phil
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Y'all,
407 - No VR with the 407 as yet. I am endorsed and look forward to the day, but I always had trouble with the Longranger and Jetranger bubble. ( Tall man syndrome) Yes I am from the siesmic world and totally agree. The more you do it the better you get. Intersting to hear all the methods out there. Some seem bizzare but as I said each to thier own.
407 - No VR with the 407 as yet. I am endorsed and look forward to the day, but I always had trouble with the Longranger and Jetranger bubble. ( Tall man syndrome) Yes I am from the siesmic world and totally agree. The more you do it the better you get. Intersting to hear all the methods out there. Some seem bizzare but as I said each to thier own.
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: North of Eq
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Keep Proving Me Wrong!
Hi Paco,
Thanks for the feedback!
Just two points:
1. I did say “sooner or later”, and
2. I will be the happiest guy around if you can continue to prove me wrong.
Safety First, All Day, Every Day!
HA
Thanks for the feedback!
Just two points:
1. I did say “sooner or later”, and
2. I will be the happiest guy around if you can continue to prove me wrong.
Safety First, All Day, Every Day!
HA
Join Date: May 2005
Location: London
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flying the long line
Yeah but what is it?
Can someone please enlighten me as to what the long line is and in what applications would it be used.
In various job adverts 'long line experience' is often quoted.
How would you go about getting experience?
So many questions yet so little time.
Answers on the back of a postcard please, first one out of the bag is the winner.
H.
Can someone please enlighten me as to what the long line is and in what applications would it be used.
In various job adverts 'long line experience' is often quoted.
How would you go about getting experience?
So many questions yet so little time.
Answers on the back of a postcard please, first one out of the bag is the winner.
H.
150-200 feet of line with a remote cargo hook....used for logging, construction work...fire buckets...Short Haulling people....cargo haulling....into small holes surrounded by tall obstacles. All done vertical reference...leaning out and looking down.
When is a line a "long" line?
How long is a piece of string? I've gone cross eyed searching the regs for a description of a "long" line when relating to external loads. When operators ask for longline experience can I say yes if I've used a 100ft line?
On a similar problem of information shortage, my research indicates that with an Ag rating, low level & mustering experience combined with a sling approval I can latch on to a bambi bucket & start flying the fire line. It doesn't take too many brain cells to work out that this would not be wise, so if the regs are silent what is the industry/insurance company standard? Standing by for an inundation of wisdom.
On a similar problem of information shortage, my research indicates that with an Ag rating, low level & mustering experience combined with a sling approval I can latch on to a bambi bucket & start flying the fire line. It doesn't take too many brain cells to work out that this would not be wise, so if the regs are silent what is the industry/insurance company standard? Standing by for an inundation of wisdom.