LYNX FLEET - WHAT NOW
LYNX FLEET - WHAT NOW
Guest
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No ideas and no sugestions. Its only a matter of time until the next disaster. I rather liked the idea being banded about during the last week or two about grounding them all until someone produces a good idea. Still, I suppose that would'nt suit everyone. Good luck.
Guest
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AVM is absoluteley spot on when he says this is a serious matter. We can all do our bit to ensure that we continue to highlight our concerns and thoughts. I'm convinced that if we were honest, most of us could justify writing ACORN's on a very regular basis. We do however, to a certain extent, accept the problems and often even laugh them off. AVM.. If you are who your UserName suggests that you are, then be under no illusion that certain operators of this aircraft are finding it increasingly more difficult to instil confidence in newer members of our trade and I would say all, to some extent, will not be surprised to here the next piece of tragic news. The original problem ie. spares is having a massive knock on effect on basic skills to the extent where I'm more than happy to continue to use the above UserName.
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With reference to pingers message I can only agree. The AAC has, over the last four years lost most of its most able pilots - I know because I am one of them ( I think!) - basically anyone with more than 2000 hours has banged out and now works for PAS, MACS etc, this leaves the AAC extremely short of long term, high time pilots. I hope they do well with the Apache but until the Corps realise that the commander on the ground wants to win the war with an extremely potent and proven machine which warrants pilots who train specifically to achieve that aim instead of RSM, SSM groundcrew orientated BFT, CFT training once/twice a week which normally starts at 0730 after an intensive NVG training night which finished at 0200. Flying in the AAC is most definitely an extra curricular activity!!!!
Let the AVM have em!!!!
Let the AVM have em!!!!
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Here I go again (It’s amazing what a few bottles of red will do!) I have been flying the Lynx for twenty years and I rate it very highly indeed. It is an extremely competent helicopter and I stand by these comments by being one of the first to fly it again, without a qualm, after the Les Berrisford disaster, and urging many a junior pilot to do likewise and have faith in what they fly. One must have a certain belief in fate as a helicopter pilot after all!
The problem with spares as many a politician will tell you, does not lie with Westlands, they are a commercial company and would dearly love to sell the MOD heaps of Ac bits to lie around in a vast hangars until required. No, the problem lies with a government deeply reluctant to spend anything at all on Defence that is not required not now, but RIGHT NOW. They save money left right and centre by keeping the UK based machines on the ground knowing that as soon as they are deployed all the funds required to get pilots up to speed and the Ac fully serviceable are provided direct from the treasury and not out of the MOD(AAC) budget. Any disagreements with this statement should be directed to Mr Paddy Ashdown MP
I am feeling quite tired now and am going for a short lie down - Happy New Year everybody!!!!
[This message has been edited by PurplePitot (edited 28 December 1999).]
The problem with spares as many a politician will tell you, does not lie with Westlands, they are a commercial company and would dearly love to sell the MOD heaps of Ac bits to lie around in a vast hangars until required. No, the problem lies with a government deeply reluctant to spend anything at all on Defence that is not required not now, but RIGHT NOW. They save money left right and centre by keeping the UK based machines on the ground knowing that as soon as they are deployed all the funds required to get pilots up to speed and the Ac fully serviceable are provided direct from the treasury and not out of the MOD(AAC) budget. Any disagreements with this statement should be directed to Mr Paddy Ashdown MP
I am feeling quite tired now and am going for a short lie down - Happy New Year everybody!!!!
[This message has been edited by PurplePitot (edited 28 December 1999).]
Guest
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Yes, pilots may be a problem, but its only a helo at the end of the day and were all used to that.
My worry with the Apache is more fundamental. Just who the hell is going to maintain the beast? My understanding (and I hope Im wrong) is that the AAC struggled for years to get on top of the Lynx, being so big a step up from the Gaz, Alouette and Sioux. Apache is 2 orders of magnitude more complex than Lynx. I gather even the Yanks find maintenance a handful. What chance has the AAC? Do the workshops have the technical experience? Do Westland?
My worry with the Apache is more fundamental. Just who the hell is going to maintain the beast? My understanding (and I hope Im wrong) is that the AAC struggled for years to get on top of the Lynx, being so big a step up from the Gaz, Alouette and Sioux. Apache is 2 orders of magnitude more complex than Lynx. I gather even the Yanks find maintenance a handful. What chance has the AAC? Do the workshops have the technical experience? Do Westland?
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Quite right pinger, the maintenance of the AAC operated Ac is of course carried out by the REME and they are responsible for one of the biggest splits in the AAC barring of course the aircrew, groundcrew divide. I disagree that the 64 is only two orders of magnitude removed from the Lx or Gz as it easily on a par with the Tornado, Harrier etc. Much greater methinks!
I can confirm that the REME do not have trained radar avionic greenies or as yet armourers for the comprehensive weapon suite and they will be reduced to that of "Black box changers" with much of the hands on maintenance being done by Westlands themselves who are building third line maintenance facilities at 'What-a-shame'. Much of the training (read all!) will be carried out in simulators and the Ac themselves will be subject to my earlier comments (re: Paddy Ashdown)
It will be interesting to see how the corps cope with their introduction as most of the current operating procedures cannot possibly cover the secret nature of most of the Ac systems, maybe I am wrong, but most of the avionics are highly classified which prevents most individuals from even looking into the cockpit (ie: groundcrew) and this problem had not even begun to be addressed when I left.
I can confirm that the REME do not have trained radar avionic greenies or as yet armourers for the comprehensive weapon suite and they will be reduced to that of "Black box changers" with much of the hands on maintenance being done by Westlands themselves who are building third line maintenance facilities at 'What-a-shame'. Much of the training (read all!) will be carried out in simulators and the Ac themselves will be subject to my earlier comments (re: Paddy Ashdown)
It will be interesting to see how the corps cope with their introduction as most of the current operating procedures cannot possibly cover the secret nature of most of the Ac systems, maybe I am wrong, but most of the avionics are highly classified which prevents most individuals from even looking into the cockpit (ie: groundcrew) and this problem had not even begun to be addressed when I left.
Guest
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The latest on Lynx servicabilty is a letter produced by the JHC, in which various actions were suggested;
1. Scrap the fleet
2. throw £380.000.000 at westlands
3. grounded for 6 months to let the spares come on line
4. new buy airframe
The lynx problem will never go away, from the tiebar fiasco to module 1
[This message has been edited by vortex842 (edited 29 December 1999).]
1. Scrap the fleet
2. throw £380.000.000 at westlands
3. grounded for 6 months to let the spares come on line
4. new buy airframe
The lynx problem will never go away, from the tiebar fiasco to module 1
[This message has been edited by vortex842 (edited 29 December 1999).]
Guest
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The WAH 64 will have problems, but not the same as the Lynx has at the mo, 2.2 Billion sheets of paper to GKN and ATIL will go a long way towards easing the kit in. It is on time ish, (well the last year any how and a lot better than Merlin! EF2000!!!, Nimrod and every other bit of aviation equipment that is coming in) the big change is that spares are paid up front and done and dusted. The red herring of who will look after them is sorted the REME could look after any thing flying today and tomorrow with the normal training. There are lots of them with the first few new aircraft when I could think of much better things it could and should be doing. ie flying.
Guest
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PNVS, perhaps ive misunderstood your post, but it seems to say that worries over the AH64 maintenance program is a red herring as it is all sorted and the REME can cope with anything flying.
Forgive me for asking what experience the redoubtable REME has in maintaining aircraft of the complexity of Tornado or worse (which even the crabs struggle with, 20 yrs later) when its most complex task to date is the relatively simple Lynx.
I think this notion that REME could maintain anything given a course or two is a dream, with no experience or background in this level of complexity no one can realistically do a thorough job, I agree with Purple Pilot, black box changers is the future.
A few courses do not an expert make.
Sorry.
Forgive me for asking what experience the redoubtable REME has in maintaining aircraft of the complexity of Tornado or worse (which even the crabs struggle with, 20 yrs later) when its most complex task to date is the relatively simple Lynx.
I think this notion that REME could maintain anything given a course or two is a dream, with no experience or background in this level of complexity no one can realistically do a thorough job, I agree with Purple Pilot, black box changers is the future.
A few courses do not an expert make.
Sorry.
Guest
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The REME will not so much "fix" as "replace" anything that isn't working. The reason ourselves, the Saudi's, Egyptions, Greece and some other less technical nations have choosen AH64 is it is fixed by box changing not rocket science. Must dash to make a euro slot, will continue this later.....!
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I wonder if the real AVM, whose surname is Niven by the way, will wonder where his anti-armour capability had gone for the 4 years(minimum) it will take to get an AH64 ready to fight , since so few of the serviceable Lynx fleet could get a photon down range!
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To pingers comments about the Lynx being simple to work on, I think he should consider the Lynx is very old technology compared to the AH 64. Though Iagree the REME will be all on to cope with the AH. This will be as a result of going on platton attacks at dawn and running 8 mile CFT's though.