Pay rise
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Pay rise
Come on then, who's impressed with (the UK's largest contract police pilot supplier) super, best you have ever had pay rise? 
But they are letting us have an extra flying suit! 
But they are letting us have an extra flying suit!
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Its the worst sin in management, raising everyones hopes (then waiting until the summer is over and there are less jobs about) then dashing them 
First rule of management: Don't p**s the troops off; especially when you are short of them to start with.
First rule of management: Don't p**s the troops off; especially when you are short of them to start with.
There are no limits
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Sadgit,
This is probably best discussed in an Airline Specific Forum, I have made an enquiry about setting this up - watch this space.
Bertie and TeeS - you work for the other two main competitors in this sector of the market. Worked it out yet?
This is probably best discussed in an Airline Specific Forum, I have made an enquiry about setting this up - watch this space.
Bertie and TeeS - you work for the other two main competitors in this sector of the market. Worked it out yet?
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what limits,
Thats fine, I'm sure the other companies in the market will get to find out very quickly anyway, its too small a world. As long as management have access to it, because they are obviously out of touch with what is going on in the real world and have decided to gamble the company with this one.
Thats fine, I'm sure the other companies in the market will get to find out very quickly anyway, its too small a world. As long as management have access to it, because they are obviously out of touch with what is going on in the real world and have decided to gamble the company with this one.
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BT: while you are at it compare military pay scales, North Sea even instructing/occasional charter salaries and you can see that contracted pilotage for Police Aviation in the UK, is bottom of the heap.
sadgit, it might have made you feel a bit better having a little moan on PPRUNE, but sadly, sadgit, you are only telling folks who already know how you feel!
The people who you really need to tell are those who have ultimately funded your paltry police pilot pay; Mr+Mrs Taxpayer. Only they can make a difference now.
Specifically the Mr+Mrs Taxpayer trying to sleep under the noise of that clattering dangerous machine driven by the dissaffected, distracted pirates working for the cutthroat, penny pinching Police Authority in their area.
Especially when the Taxpayers find out that in their neighbouring Police area, the Police helicopters are flown by happy, safe, well paid (so obviously better) pilots, obviously far less likely to wake them up at 2am or, God forbid, crash on them.
Don't blame the management; its just a business. The cheapest contracts (chosen by the police, driven by the taxpayer) are already in place.There is no more money for you in those contracts, apart from massaging out paltry annual increases.
Sensible police authorities( with discerning taxpayers, who sleep well at night!) have chosen to pay a more reasonable rate for their Police pilots, based on the relative pay rates and responsibilities of other government employees.
It's a safety issue. Tender for cutthroat contracts: get pirates.
Pay peanuts: get monkeys.
The "industry standard" is being set by the directly employing Police Authorties. Do your local taxpayers deserve anything less than standard, sadgit?
If some Police authorities want to continue with contract pilots (a reasonable decision on specialist management grounds) then extra public funds should be made available to standardise police pilot pay across the land.
In the public arena Flight Safety should not be a subject for negotiation.
Mr+Mrs Taxpayer need to know. "Equal pay for our Police Pilots!!"
Perhaps it's time to start choking on those peanuts.
The people who you really need to tell are those who have ultimately funded your paltry police pilot pay; Mr+Mrs Taxpayer. Only they can make a difference now.
Specifically the Mr+Mrs Taxpayer trying to sleep under the noise of that clattering dangerous machine driven by the dissaffected, distracted pirates working for the cutthroat, penny pinching Police Authority in their area.
Especially when the Taxpayers find out that in their neighbouring Police area, the Police helicopters are flown by happy, safe, well paid (so obviously better) pilots, obviously far less likely to wake them up at 2am or, God forbid, crash on them.
Don't blame the management; its just a business. The cheapest contracts (chosen by the police, driven by the taxpayer) are already in place.There is no more money for you in those contracts, apart from massaging out paltry annual increases.
Sensible police authorities( with discerning taxpayers, who sleep well at night!) have chosen to pay a more reasonable rate for their Police pilots, based on the relative pay rates and responsibilities of other government employees.
It's a safety issue. Tender for cutthroat contracts: get pirates.
Pay peanuts: get monkeys.
The "industry standard" is being set by the directly employing Police Authorties. Do your local taxpayers deserve anything less than standard, sadgit?
If some Police authorities want to continue with contract pilots (a reasonable decision on specialist management grounds) then extra public funds should be made available to standardise police pilot pay across the land.
In the public arena Flight Safety should not be a subject for negotiation.
Mr+Mrs Taxpayer need to know. "Equal pay for our Police Pilots!!"
Perhaps it's time to start choking on those peanuts.
Last edited by Bertie Thruster; 1st Oct 2005 at 07:49.
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Everyone can work out who I am quite easily so I am not hiding behind a false name and I know the management will read this. Please be careful because your contract with the company states that you must not discuss how much you are paid publicly. I am a realist and understand commercial pressures, but why build us up, raise our hopes, then do this? I am really really sad.....
Question....
Just why would a contract bar one from discussing your pay....it is a personal issue more than a business matter and I doubt it is propriatary information. If so...then how does one obtain a mortgage by telling your friendly banker...."ah...sorry Mate....cannot divulge my salary...the boss would not be happy if I did."
Sounds like the boss should be embarrassed if he does not want you to discuss your pay with anyone!
Just why would a contract bar one from discussing your pay....it is a personal issue more than a business matter and I doubt it is propriatary information. If so...then how does one obtain a mortgage by telling your friendly banker...."ah...sorry Mate....cannot divulge my salary...the boss would not be happy if I did."
Sounds like the boss should be embarrassed if he does not want you to discuss your pay with anyone!
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I was reminded of this requirement last year, it was not a ban on discussing with bank etc. It was a requirement not to discuss with other pilots.....
One might be on a contract but on the side of the helicopter it says "POLICE" The uniform is the same as the police observers. And the flying is done to a set of Home Office rules.
The only thing different for a contract police pilot is the paltry pay.
On safety issues alone this is a matter for public debate.
The only thing different for a contract police pilot is the paltry pay.
On safety issues alone this is a matter for public debate.
Hi What Limits
Got it in the end, first guess was wrong - shows what I know! I was actually chasing hints towards the rate but I think that has been answered now.
I tried a few times to contact the administration about an airline specific forum for us but no joy. Can you let me know if you have any success.
Cheers
TeeS
Got it in the end, first guess was wrong - shows what I know! I was actually chasing hints towards the rate but I think that has been answered now.
I tried a few times to contact the administration about an airline specific forum for us but no joy. Can you let me know if you have any success.
Cheers
TeeS
Bertie Thruster,
Direct employ isn't the only answer to happy pilots.
You are true about contract pilots, my company (the one in question) is paid twice what the pilots receive then take the overheads out e.g floaters, admin, etc. They then take out 10% for the shareholders or in our case prop up the non-profit, slightly harass, less profitable arms.
Smaller organisations run by pilots, like SpecAir at West Yorkshire, offer a very attractive alternative. A very reasonable tender can be made to the bobbies and due to little or no overheads the money can be split more evenly between the pilots, better pension provision can be made and loss of licence and other benefits can be provided. SpecAir all seemed happy when I flew with them last.
The trouble with direct employ, in my opinion, is that you are tied into Government pay scales and have a limited degree of movement.
Forces seem relucant to commit to direct employment as they are frightened of long term illness and seem happier to leave the problem with the contractor. The pilot market is fairly tight at the moment so even the contractor is finding it difficult to cover shifts at short notice.
I was involved with the discussions with our management over this pay review and I am, like everyone else, very disappointed and saddened by the result.
I think things will come to a head in the Police market very shortly.
FNW
Direct employ isn't the only answer to happy pilots.
You are true about contract pilots, my company (the one in question) is paid twice what the pilots receive then take the overheads out e.g floaters, admin, etc. They then take out 10% for the shareholders or in our case prop up the non-profit, slightly harass, less profitable arms.
Smaller organisations run by pilots, like SpecAir at West Yorkshire, offer a very attractive alternative. A very reasonable tender can be made to the bobbies and due to little or no overheads the money can be split more evenly between the pilots, better pension provision can be made and loss of licence and other benefits can be provided. SpecAir all seemed happy when I flew with them last.
The trouble with direct employ, in my opinion, is that you are tied into Government pay scales and have a limited degree of movement.
Forces seem relucant to commit to direct employment as they are frightened of long term illness and seem happier to leave the problem with the contractor. The pilot market is fairly tight at the moment so even the contractor is finding it difficult to cover shifts at short notice.
I was involved with the discussions with our management over this pay review and I am, like everyone else, very disappointed and saddened by the result.
I think things will come to a head in the Police market very shortly.
FNW
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Jayteeto,
It doesn't say anything in my letter about not talking to other pilots about the deal. You're right about previous correspondance though. In the past it has said specifically NOT to discuss with others. I sometimes think they must take us for monkies, because that's what they seem to want to pay for. This new deal hasn't solved anything, infact it has probably only served to highlight the divisions more. Mind you with my new, I presume it will be new, flying suit and my nice shiny ANR helmet, I won't hopefully have to claim on that LOL and Private Healthcare Insurance I haven't got for hearing loss
It doesn't say anything in my letter about not talking to other pilots about the deal. You're right about previous correspondance though. In the past it has said specifically NOT to discuss with others. I sometimes think they must take us for monkies, because that's what they seem to want to pay for. This new deal hasn't solved anything, infact it has probably only served to highlight the divisions more. Mind you with my new, I presume it will be new, flying suit and my nice shiny ANR helmet, I won't hopefully have to claim on that LOL and Private Healthcare Insurance I haven't got for hearing loss