Another Helicopter crash in Mexico..
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Another Helicopter crash in Mexico..
Another Helicopter crash in Mexico..
Anybody knows something about it????
I think it was a Huey working on a power lines......
Anybody knows something about it????
I think it was a Huey working on a power lines......
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American Bell 205 or UH1H with an American pilot on board, this is the second American 205 in less than 6 months, both fatal accidents, the first one got its own cargo wire in the main rotor and went into the ground inverted,
This other one that just crashed was working in one of the worst places in Mexico to work in, the mountains in the state of Veracruz, mostly deep canyons, dense jungle, (the favorite place for Hollywood to film movies that supposedly take place in some remote Asian jungle), fast changing cloud cover due to all the humidity coming from the gulf, terrain goes from sea level to +10K in a few miles, full of non marked powerlines everywhere, I have a friend who flies every year from Houston to Mexico City to so some race car signal relays, and he doesn't want to fly down here anymore just because he has to go thru there. Apparently he hit a big powerline that was almost 800 FT AGL.
Due to NAFTA American companies have been coming here recently to work, mostly companies that don't meet the not so stringent USFS standards, and they are able to slide thru to private companies that build infrastructure around here, so there is the result.
This has a lot of Mexican operators upset because for example for the big offshore contract companies are obliged to replace aircraft that have more than 10,000 hours, that is why ASESA just bought a dozen new 412's, but then the govt. allows foreign companies to come and fly 20 year old helicopters.
My condolences to those involved.
This other one that just crashed was working in one of the worst places in Mexico to work in, the mountains in the state of Veracruz, mostly deep canyons, dense jungle, (the favorite place for Hollywood to film movies that supposedly take place in some remote Asian jungle), fast changing cloud cover due to all the humidity coming from the gulf, terrain goes from sea level to +10K in a few miles, full of non marked powerlines everywhere, I have a friend who flies every year from Houston to Mexico City to so some race car signal relays, and he doesn't want to fly down here anymore just because he has to go thru there. Apparently he hit a big powerline that was almost 800 FT AGL.
Due to NAFTA American companies have been coming here recently to work, mostly companies that don't meet the not so stringent USFS standards, and they are able to slide thru to private companies that build infrastructure around here, so there is the result.
This has a lot of Mexican operators upset because for example for the big offshore contract companies are obliged to replace aircraft that have more than 10,000 hours, that is why ASESA just bought a dozen new 412's, but then the govt. allows foreign companies to come and fly 20 year old helicopters.
My condolences to those involved.
Blender pilot...
Turns out it was a US registered aircraft and a Mexican crew.
Is there an easy place to work in Mexico? It's all either hot or high or humid or all three with the possible exception of Baja.
I am not aware of any US companies that work in Mexico that are not big players in the US CWN market. This is not to say that many of them are not the bottom of the gene pool but USFS carding has VERY little to do with the preformance of a company. Look at the California companies that come south every year. They all work for the USFS and CDF but you wouldn't find me in all but one of the companies.
My company has been in Mexico for 6 years, year round. We choose to be in Mexico and choose NOT to work for the USFS.
I find your off shore reference somewhat misleading. In the hangar next to our machines are a Bell 47 and a 206. Both are older than 10 years and both fly regularly in air taxi work. The way I understand it the 10 year rule is only for off shore ships, exposed to the salt water environment. There are no US or Canadian operators operating off shore in Mexico to the best of my knowledge. Our older than 10 years helicopters provide more performance for the peso than anything in Mexico. That is why we are still here.
The US opertaors that do operate in Mexico do so because of the lack of precision vertical reference pilots in Mexico. When the Mexicans learn to do this there will be no more gringos working down here.
N25.14 W100.17
Turns out it was a US registered aircraft and a Mexican crew.
Is there an easy place to work in Mexico? It's all either hot or high or humid or all three with the possible exception of Baja.
I am not aware of any US companies that work in Mexico that are not big players in the US CWN market. This is not to say that many of them are not the bottom of the gene pool but USFS carding has VERY little to do with the preformance of a company. Look at the California companies that come south every year. They all work for the USFS and CDF but you wouldn't find me in all but one of the companies.
My company has been in Mexico for 6 years, year round. We choose to be in Mexico and choose NOT to work for the USFS.
I find your off shore reference somewhat misleading. In the hangar next to our machines are a Bell 47 and a 206. Both are older than 10 years and both fly regularly in air taxi work. The way I understand it the 10 year rule is only for off shore ships, exposed to the salt water environment. There are no US or Canadian operators operating off shore in Mexico to the best of my knowledge. Our older than 10 years helicopters provide more performance for the peso than anything in Mexico. That is why we are still here.
The US opertaors that do operate in Mexico do so because of the lack of precision vertical reference pilots in Mexico. When the Mexicans learn to do this there will be no more gringos working down here.
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Lama Bear,
Thank you for your post, it was informative.
Regarding US or Canadian companies working offshore in Mexico, you have Airlog working as HC, even the aircraft are painted in Airlog colors, and they have that contract for the 12 Bell 412's working for CFE, they all do longline work, although you are right longline work is still something that has to be learned by most pilots in our country, unfortunately there has been little need for this until now, just the CFE guys routinely use it, and some of the seismic contracts require it, and there is always people to do these jobs.
Now in regards to old aircraft, I really don't know about Monterrey, to me its amazing that they still have a 47 or 206 for hire, in Mexico City there is only one 206 for hire, and about eighteen 407's, there are also 7 A109E, and you can even rent a brand new S76. Fleet age average in my town (not offshore) is not older than 4 years old, that is why for me its still amazing to see UH1 helicopters working up in the mountains when I go out, since whenever we compete for contract the first thing they ask is reasonably new aircraft, we have not gone for a contract where they would allow any aircraft older than 10 years old.
Now on the other hand I am guessing you are that guy who's always in the news rescuing people in your UH1 out of all those tall mountains and that surround Monterrey right? I've seen you probably 5 times in the news in the last couple of years pulling people out of all sorts of tight spots, and what's more amazing to me is that you did it in your UH1, if that is you, then my hat's off to you. That requires much skill and courage, you don't have all that fancy equipment to do the job and still get it done.
Thank you.
Thank you for your post, it was informative.
Regarding US or Canadian companies working offshore in Mexico, you have Airlog working as HC, even the aircraft are painted in Airlog colors, and they have that contract for the 12 Bell 412's working for CFE, they all do longline work, although you are right longline work is still something that has to be learned by most pilots in our country, unfortunately there has been little need for this until now, just the CFE guys routinely use it, and some of the seismic contracts require it, and there is always people to do these jobs.
Now in regards to old aircraft, I really don't know about Monterrey, to me its amazing that they still have a 47 or 206 for hire, in Mexico City there is only one 206 for hire, and about eighteen 407's, there are also 7 A109E, and you can even rent a brand new S76. Fleet age average in my town (not offshore) is not older than 4 years old, that is why for me its still amazing to see UH1 helicopters working up in the mountains when I go out, since whenever we compete for contract the first thing they ask is reasonably new aircraft, we have not gone for a contract where they would allow any aircraft older than 10 years old.
Now on the other hand I am guessing you are that guy who's always in the news rescuing people in your UH1 out of all those tall mountains and that surround Monterrey right? I've seen you probably 5 times in the news in the last couple of years pulling people out of all sorts of tight spots, and what's more amazing to me is that you did it in your UH1, if that is you, then my hat's off to you. That requires much skill and courage, you don't have all that fancy equipment to do the job and still get it done.
Thank you.
Interesting about the Air Log ships. Are they operated and manned by gringo crews? I know ERA had 5 ships down here several years ago but they had "X" numbers and were flown by Mexicans.
There are three of us working in MTY on two UH-1Hs. However they are not the ordinary UH-1. They are stripped with equipped weights right at 5,000. They are strake equipped and have the 703 engine. There is no substitute for 1,800 hp. We still get max torque at 13,000 and 25 degrees. They are the closest thing Bell never made to equal the Lama in high and hot performance. That is why you see them in the mountains.
As for them being old, what is the difference in our UH-1s and a new Bell 210? Same airfame, same hours on the airframe, same time on components. It is not the age of the airframe but the quality of the maintenance. Our usefull load is actually a little better than the 210 or 412EP but we are much cheaper.
Our fire season was very busy this year. In July alone we flew over 300 hours with one and a half days down on one ship for maintenance. The full day was scheduled and the half day for a cut starter seal. This is enviable on any airframe, new or used.
We would like not to be in the rescue business but thanks for the kind words. We have basically gone to using a 200 ft long line for all rescue work and sometimes I would like to have more.
There are three of us working in MTY on two UH-1Hs. However they are not the ordinary UH-1. They are stripped with equipped weights right at 5,000. They are strake equipped and have the 703 engine. There is no substitute for 1,800 hp. We still get max torque at 13,000 and 25 degrees. They are the closest thing Bell never made to equal the Lama in high and hot performance. That is why you see them in the mountains.
As for them being old, what is the difference in our UH-1s and a new Bell 210? Same airfame, same hours on the airframe, same time on components. It is not the age of the airframe but the quality of the maintenance. Our usefull load is actually a little better than the 210 or 412EP but we are much cheaper.
Our fire season was very busy this year. In July alone we flew over 300 hours with one and a half days down on one ship for maintenance. The full day was scheduled and the half day for a cut starter seal. This is enviable on any airframe, new or used.
We would like not to be in the rescue business but thanks for the kind words. We have basically gone to using a 200 ft long line for all rescue work and sometimes I would like to have more.
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Lama bear the BH412 for HC are all crewed by Mexican Pilots. HC does long lkine work for CFE (painted yellow and white)and seismic. The ERA birds that were here were operated by HC untill replaced by BH412s. I get to monterrey on ocasion and hope to meet up with you I currently work out of Mexico City as an Asesor to HC.
Blender Pilot how have you been doing? Hope to see you soon.
Regards
Blender Pilot how have you been doing? Hope to see you soon.
Regards
Dspice or anyone else in Mexico
Mi casa es su casa.
You can get in contact thru PPrune messages. I enjoy learning more about Mexican operations. We are sort of isolated in that we basically only work in one state with minor excursions in other states.
Mi casa es su casa.
You can get in contact thru PPrune messages. I enjoy learning more about Mexican operations. We are sort of isolated in that we basically only work in one state with minor excursions in other states.
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Hmmm Hmmm
May i rise my hand?
I am the owner of the 206B that sits to the right of the UH1H's. I am also very familiar with ASESA a company that does all kinds of crazy contracts with PEMEX in offshore and off too.
We also operate 3 407's one in monterrey 2 in Ciudad del Carmen Campeche (Offshore)
Now, although i might be wrong, i have some opinions to your first statement: Why you don't see many 206's in Mexico City or DF?
you don't see many 206's in your area because 206's are **** in your altitude and area. And also in our mountain area, but if we use them in the city, its not that bad, the highest point usually is under 4,000 ft, and although hot, Density altitude its quite good and its also usually windy, and low humidity (i said usually
). You do see me renting my 206, because it gets the job done, is well equiped and its in better condition and maintained than most 407's i seen around (appart from ours ) (even in DF). Its cheaper to rent, and since its not under contract to any government agency, we are good to go and renting a lot. Its also my personal ship.
As for UH1H, i had seen over the years, in many operations working with our fleet of 412 and (used to 212) fleet, trying to learn a new area and trying to get the job done at the same time of doing long line, fire work and rescues its an experience job, its a science of its own, and no pilot can work on that unless it has lived long enough to do some work with an experienced pilot (learning from one), Training, although good, has nothing to do with how this line of work gets done, it includes ground personel, technicians, logistics (for fuel and other stuff), its like offshore, its a sience of its own too, its more the big tooth hanging out of your mouth that gets the job done, the machines are in great great shape, the machanics are awesome, and i don't see a replacement for them any time soon, since time over time they had prooven an impecable record of safety and getting the work done. They are great machines and they are extraordinary pilots and technicians. Ohh, and its also the most service for the buck, and the government its very pleased with them (after all they hand there butts on the buttom of that ling line)
Our contracts with PEMEX, do not include replacing ships every 10 years or using ships newer than 10 years. Its impossible, it would be terribly expensive and imposible to recupe the investment. However they do have very strict guidelines, both on safety and on requirements and do auditing at least once or twice per month, with incredible penalties for unsatisfactory things.
We still operate a second 206B in Monterrey apart from my personal ship, this ship its an 1980 ship with more than 9000 hours logged and its in perfect shape, the engine is great and as long as we keep the maintainance up (we have our own shop), there is nothing to worry about. Here are both ships on a picture and some others of the UH1H ships landing from a long day during EMILI huracane. also a picture of out 407.
Also a picture from the pannel of my jet ranger (just to back up what i said that its better taken care of than many 407's i see (not more than ours ). And since i can't put in a component run, you can take my word for that. I also posted a picture of me and a friend on the 206, just to put a face on my words. I am the one flying on the right seat (or on the left of the picture). It takes love to take care of a helicopter no matter the skill you still need love and compasion. Its like a person, when you dress them well and keep their helth well they treat you back better.
(the hole is now taken care of, with an extra instrument in it).
I am the owner of the 206B that sits to the right of the UH1H's. I am also very familiar with ASESA a company that does all kinds of crazy contracts with PEMEX in offshore and off too.
We also operate 3 407's one in monterrey 2 in Ciudad del Carmen Campeche (Offshore)
Now, although i might be wrong, i have some opinions to your first statement: Why you don't see many 206's in Mexico City or DF?
you don't see many 206's in your area because 206's are **** in your altitude and area. And also in our mountain area, but if we use them in the city, its not that bad, the highest point usually is under 4,000 ft, and although hot, Density altitude its quite good and its also usually windy, and low humidity (i said usually
). You do see me renting my 206, because it gets the job done, is well equiped and its in better condition and maintained than most 407's i seen around (appart from ours ) (even in DF). Its cheaper to rent, and since its not under contract to any government agency, we are good to go and renting a lot. Its also my personal ship.As for UH1H, i had seen over the years, in many operations working with our fleet of 412 and (used to 212) fleet, trying to learn a new area and trying to get the job done at the same time of doing long line, fire work and rescues its an experience job, its a science of its own, and no pilot can work on that unless it has lived long enough to do some work with an experienced pilot (learning from one), Training, although good, has nothing to do with how this line of work gets done, it includes ground personel, technicians, logistics (for fuel and other stuff), its like offshore, its a sience of its own too, its more the big tooth hanging out of your mouth that gets the job done, the machines are in great great shape, the machanics are awesome, and i don't see a replacement for them any time soon, since time over time they had prooven an impecable record of safety and getting the work done. They are great machines and they are extraordinary pilots and technicians. Ohh, and its also the most service for the buck, and the government its very pleased with them (after all they hand there butts on the buttom of that ling line)
Our contracts with PEMEX, do not include replacing ships every 10 years or using ships newer than 10 years. Its impossible, it would be terribly expensive and imposible to recupe the investment. However they do have very strict guidelines, both on safety and on requirements and do auditing at least once or twice per month, with incredible penalties for unsatisfactory things.
We still operate a second 206B in Monterrey apart from my personal ship, this ship its an 1980 ship with more than 9000 hours logged and its in perfect shape, the engine is great and as long as we keep the maintainance up (we have our own shop), there is nothing to worry about. Here are both ships on a picture and some others of the UH1H ships landing from a long day during EMILI huracane. also a picture of out 407.
Also a picture from the pannel of my jet ranger (just to back up what i said that its better taken care of than many 407's i see (not more than ours
). And since i can't put in a component run, you can take my word for that. I also posted a picture of me and a friend on the 206, just to put a face on my words. I am the one flying on the right seat (or on the left of the picture). It takes love to take care of a helicopter no matter the skill you still need love and compasion. Its like a person, when you dress them well and keep their helth well they treat you back better.(the hole is now taken care of, with an extra instrument in it).
