Solo Auto's

[t'aint natural]

I don't want to hog the mike here, but several respondents have said things to the effect that an autorotation is a reversal of airflow through the disc. It isn't, though, is it. Except near the hub, that is. Or am I being illogical? There has to be a flow induced downwards through the disc to produce lift, so the airflow cannot be up through the disc.

[Grainger]

The important point here is "relative" airflow.. .. .Since the rotor disc (and the aircraft to which it is attached) are descending at 1500-1800 ft/min, it is possible to have an upwards relative airflow even if some of the still air that you are descending through is moving downwards after you have passed through it..... .. .To generate lift you have to change the momentum of the air you are passing through. If the relative airflow is coming up from underneath you, and you slow it down, that will do the trick. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" />

[Have a Chat]

Well said Grainger !

[Buitenzorg]

Nice post Steve76, good discussion here.. .. .To answer your question, yes I have. Going solo after 20 hours (legal minimum on Robbies), hovering and patterns got repetitive, so I did solo autos. And solo hovering autos. And solo tail rotor failure practice. All of which I'd practiced pre-solo. If any of my instructors had seen me doing this solo, I'd have been grounded, shot, or rolled in flour and baked with an apple in my mouth. It wasn't until later, during CFI training, that I realized what a flaming imbecile I'd been. Sure, the reason I did that was that I wanted to be as good a pilot as possible for my hours. But there are reasons why flight schools restrict solo students from doing demanding maneuvers, and why insurance companies won't insure these activities. It's because you're asking to become an accident statistic, for very little training return.. .. .How many accidents, fatal or otherwise, do you know of where a PPL had an engine failure, correctly lowered the lever, and then proceeded to ball$ things up? On the other hand, how many accidents, fatal or otherwise, do you know of where a solo student crashed attempting a maneuver beyond his/her capabilities? I'll bet the second number is a lot larger than the first, it sure is for me. And then, especially with the Robbie, there is the huge difference in handling solo vs. with Mum or Dad in the other seat. This is what I mean by little training return; in real life when the engine decides to take a lunch break the a/c will probably be a lot heavier than when flown solo.. .. .This is not to denigrate the urge to continue training, good for you! But saving a few bob by not having an instructor on board during a large part of your professional training is to my mind setting the wrong priorities. It is then the instructor's job to encourage the student to take those actions the student thinks are right, i.e. wean the student off leaning on the instructor's judgement - and keep it safe of course.. .. .At various points in my training I was shown, and practiced, zero-airspeed, backwards, and sideways autos - with an instructor. And when I later instructed (like today for instance) I'd show them to students, and encourage, but not force, them to practice these maneuvers. But some of our students don't want to be professional, full-time, rather-fly-than-eat-type pilots - they do this for fun. Ingraining the reflexes that will keep them alive (collective DOWN NOW) and teaching the judgement that'll keep them out of sticky situations is more important than practicing demanding yet subtle maneuvers.. .. .Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong (Dennis Miller, The Rants).

[Skycop9]

Before students or renters even think about solo auto's they should remeber the following:. .. .1. The flight school I teach at requires every renter and student to sign a form stating that they will not.( practice solo auto's, slope landings, off airport landings that are not authorized practice areas.). .. .2. as suggested by other replies the student may be distracted and let rotor PRM decay, or endanger himself, the aircraft, or other persons on the ground.. .. .3. Insurance will not cover the loss. It will have to come out of the students pocket.. .. .If you practice auto's with an instructor and learn to get the collective down immediately you will survive the incident. Survival is the key. You will live to fly another day.. .. .Skycop9

[Hone22]

Don't forget student/Renters, the hire contract you're signing when you take the school machine away "almost always" binds you as the pic to the insurance excess.


So if you go out and practise/play with things that could bite, remember if it goes wrong and you don't kill yourself, you're in for approx 10-12% hull value for the bent iron.

If shelling out 15-30k doesnt' put you off carrying out unapproved exercises maybe scaring the B'jezus or a slight maiming will.

Now a bit closer to the thread: My original instructor if anything made me feel very, very aprehesive (sh!t scared) about auto's and I never tried them solo until very late in my CPL training. Guess what? yep they scared me sh!tless (good training huh?) so I stayed away from them.

Later I finished my CPL with a more experienced chap & then he helped me get it all together and taught me not to fear, but enjoy the challange of auto's.

I only know of one school where the CFI will do a check ride & if happy allow student to solo auto to the hover. Other schools either no solo auto's or to S&L recovery <500' AGL.

cheers & flysafe
Hone

[WLM]

Trust you Steve....I think you forgot to mention you did the backwards autos in a B47...
Now my training on autos were to the ground, from various heights. Hovering at 500' and then auto to the ground is very interesting. Anyway, the only solo's I did were in real situation, ie Murphy worked on the engine.....I can only say that waht yuou learn in your training, (CPL and some hours....) will always remain embedded in your brains. If you MUST practice your autos, do them with the reassurance of an instructor next to you. That is what they are paid to do.