Heli Customer Survey (Lighthearted)
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Heli Customer Survey (Lighthearted)
Folks on this forum have been very helpful in the past, providing me with useful insight on heli life-cycle, cost, and design. Naturally, Nick has put my thoughts straight on a number of occasions about heli design. As a result of one thread, i am seriously studying up on turbo-diesel engine design to determine long-term applicability to helis. 
Although cost limited on heli flying experience (R22 of course), i am used to hanging around airfields through gliding. I thoroughly enjoy the exchanges with other pilots about the limitations of their machines. I thought to do the same with some of you rotor folks. So:
What is the single biggest whinge about your flying machine, and what solutions would you suggest?
Mart
Although cost limited on heli flying experience (R22 of course), i am used to hanging around airfields through gliding. I thoroughly enjoy the exchanges with other pilots about the limitations of their machines. I thought to do the same with some of you rotor folks. So:
What is the single biggest whinge about your flying machine, and what solutions would you suggest?
Mart
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Stupid starting system on EC120 - take out relay;
Quadrant throttle on standard Squirrel - twist better;
Poor ergonomics on B407 for tall person - not sure;
Slowness of Alo 2 - too late;
R44 sounds like a boat not a helicopter - fly a turbine;
Almost everything about R22 - don't get me started;
Ground rocking on UH1 - not enough experience to say;
Ugliness of Enstrom 480 - scrap them;
Back 'seats' in Hughes 500 - something, just not the 600;
Undeserved bad rep of Mil 8 due to dodgy maintenance - some kind of 'agency'/'dealership or take over by Eurocopter ?
Quadrant throttle on standard Squirrel - twist better;
Poor ergonomics on B407 for tall person - not sure;
Slowness of Alo 2 - too late;
R44 sounds like a boat not a helicopter - fly a turbine;
Almost everything about R22 - don't get me started;
Ground rocking on UH1 - not enough experience to say;
Ugliness of Enstrom 480 - scrap them;
Back 'seats' in Hughes 500 - something, just not the 600;
Undeserved bad rep of Mil 8 due to dodgy maintenance - some kind of 'agency'/'dealership or take over by Eurocopter ?
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Almost every helicopter has a huge drawback over here were today's DA is 11682 feet, LACK OF POWER!
I am tired of flying stepping on the red lines every day! Some most days is MGT others, NG, rarely the Tq, but you are always at some limit and barely flying.
I need more Power!
Then more pedal authority is always nice when you are at some limit, that would be a nice addition to some helicopters. (the 407 has TR power to spare!)
I wish one day helicopters would stop leaking water into the cabin when it rains.
I am tired of flying stepping on the red lines every day! Some most days is MGT others, NG, rarely the Tq, but you are always at some limit and barely flying.
I need more Power!
Then more pedal authority is always nice when you are at some limit, that would be a nice addition to some helicopters. (the 407 has TR power to spare!)
I wish one day helicopters would stop leaking water into the cabin when it rains.
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Thanks guys, some good points already made. Responding to just a few:
"Stupid starting system on EC120 - take out relay;"
Interesting.
"Quadrant throttle on standard Squirrel - twist better"
Amazed there isn't an auto throttle kit for this.
"R44 sounds like a boat not a helicopter - fly a turbine;"
This had me laughing quite hard! So you want some acoustic development on inlet/exhaust, or just a different engine?
"Almost everything about R22 - don't get me started;"
Oh, But i must! As one of the highest volume sellers for trainers, then i expect this to feature in this thread. Mine would definately be the control mech, since hovering takes a lot of skill (and cash to learn). Also there are all the mast bumping incidents...
----
"Slowness of Alo 2..."
Is this just because the machine was originally developed from a piston machine, or is it still underpowered? Can the II be modified into a III, or is this essentially a new machine?
----
"Almost every helicopter has a huge drawback over here were today's DA is 11682 feet, LACK OF POWER!"
This seems to be a common theme in heli conversations. Is it the need to fly so close to redlines that bothers, or a genuine need for more engine power? Wouldn't more power just result in higher DA and/or MAUW? Back to the red line again...
"Then more pedal authority is always nice when you are at some limit, that would be a nice addition to some helicopters."
Do you mean servo assisted pedals, or more sensitivity? I know how awkward heavy (glider) pedals can feel though!
"I wish one day helicopters would stop leaking water into the cabin when it rains."
Hehehe - maybe a more automotive approach to door seal design?
Mart
"Stupid starting system on EC120 - take out relay;"
Interesting.
"Quadrant throttle on standard Squirrel - twist better"
Amazed there isn't an auto throttle kit for this.
"R44 sounds like a boat not a helicopter - fly a turbine;"
This had me laughing quite hard! So you want some acoustic development on inlet/exhaust, or just a different engine?
"Almost everything about R22 - don't get me started;"
Oh, But i must! As one of the highest volume sellers for trainers, then i expect this to feature in this thread. Mine would definately be the control mech, since hovering takes a lot of skill (and cash to learn). Also there are all the mast bumping incidents...
----
"Slowness of Alo 2..."
Is this just because the machine was originally developed from a piston machine, or is it still underpowered? Can the II be modified into a III, or is this essentially a new machine?
----
"Almost every helicopter has a huge drawback over here were today's DA is 11682 feet, LACK OF POWER!"
This seems to be a common theme in heli conversations. Is it the need to fly so close to redlines that bothers, or a genuine need for more engine power? Wouldn't more power just result in higher DA and/or MAUW? Back to the red line again...
"Then more pedal authority is always nice when you are at some limit, that would be a nice addition to some helicopters."
Do you mean servo assisted pedals, or more sensitivity? I know how awkward heavy (glider) pedals can feel though!
"I wish one day helicopters would stop leaking water into the cabin when it rains."
Hehehe - maybe a more automotive approach to door seal design?
Mart
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80 knots out of Alo II ?! Lucky if we get 70 downhill on final approach !
Auto throttle wouldn't help much where you need it most - the start, and tail rotor failures.
Turbine R44 might be nice but needs a better looking body. Then Jet Ranger really would be dead.
R22 T bar - works okay but puts a lot of people off. Instructor gets cramp or sore knee from elbow resting right on it. Also scary when 22's controls come off in your hands, especially with beginner student.
Alo II speed more to do with (no) aerodynamics. 75-100 more hp for 15 knots and that extra person (Astazou engine) makes for a real machine instead of the compromise that the standard II is.
Tail rotor authority means still being able to hold your nose pointing where you want when in max power conditions, not to do with how it feels on contols. Linked to LTE, a 206L problem, which, amongst other nasties, can lead to you spinning around out of control just as you come into OGE hover over your LZ... That's why Blender would like more of it.
Our 407s didn't leak in Indonesia in rain so bad viz was 40 metres. 206s always leak though. Maybe 'cos most of them have been bent sometime in their illustrious careers... ?
Auto throttle wouldn't help much where you need it most - the start, and tail rotor failures.
Turbine R44 might be nice but needs a better looking body. Then Jet Ranger really would be dead.
R22 T bar - works okay but puts a lot of people off. Instructor gets cramp or sore knee from elbow resting right on it. Also scary when 22's controls come off in your hands, especially with beginner student.
Alo II speed more to do with (no) aerodynamics. 75-100 more hp for 15 knots and that extra person (Astazou engine) makes for a real machine instead of the compromise that the standard II is.
Tail rotor authority means still being able to hold your nose pointing where you want when in max power conditions, not to do with how it feels on contols. Linked to LTE, a 206L problem, which, amongst other nasties, can lead to you spinning around out of control just as you come into OGE hover over your LZ... That's why Blender would like more of it.
Our 407s didn't leak in Indonesia in rain so bad viz was 40 metres. 206s always leak though. Maybe 'cos most of them have been bent sometime in their illustrious careers... ?
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Good stuff GoAround7 - thanks!
"Auto throttle wouldn't help much where you need it most - the start, and tail rotor failures."
Good point!
"Turbine R44 might be nice but needs a better looking body."
I'm actually a fan of high boost turbo charging. Not sure about applicability to a Lycoming, but it goes a long way towards turbine performance (and sound), without the expensive blade creep! I'm amazed the aero conversion of the Subaru flat 4 turbo petrol wasn't considered for this application. There must be plenty of newer inline 4 offerings that could be packaged for, like the Audi 275BHP 1.9 turbo.
Water cooling would also allow getting rid of that cooling fan, and the radiator would package much neater in a slicker airframe. Even motorbikes are water cooled nowadays.
"R22 T bar - works okay but puts a lot of people off."
Doesn't seem too bad - you end up flying like you are holding a coffee cup! I'm still impressed at anyone who can hover this thing though, especially in crosswinds. I'm told that 3-blade articulated (eg S300) are much easier to hover...
"Alo II speed more to do with (no) aerodynamics."
Alo does look very functional, if not streamline.
"Tail rotor authority means still being able to hold your nose pointing where you want when in max power conditions, not to do with how it feels on contols."
Ah OK. Thanks for clearing this up.
"Our 407s didn't leak in Indonesia in rain so bad viz was 40 metres."
Combination of a newer design, and as you comment, straighter airframe.
Mart
"Auto throttle wouldn't help much where you need it most - the start, and tail rotor failures."
Good point!
"Turbine R44 might be nice but needs a better looking body."
I'm actually a fan of high boost turbo charging. Not sure about applicability to a Lycoming, but it goes a long way towards turbine performance (and sound), without the expensive blade creep! I'm amazed the aero conversion of the Subaru flat 4 turbo petrol wasn't considered for this application. There must be plenty of newer inline 4 offerings that could be packaged for, like the Audi 275BHP 1.9 turbo.
Water cooling would also allow getting rid of that cooling fan, and the radiator would package much neater in a slicker airframe. Even motorbikes are water cooled nowadays.
"R22 T bar - works okay but puts a lot of people off."
Doesn't seem too bad - you end up flying like you are holding a coffee cup! I'm still impressed at anyone who can hover this thing though, especially in crosswinds. I'm told that 3-blade articulated (eg S300) are much easier to hover...
"Alo II speed more to do with (no) aerodynamics."
Alo does look very functional, if not streamline.
"Tail rotor authority means still being able to hold your nose pointing where you want when in max power conditions, not to do with how it feels on contols."
Ah OK. Thanks for clearing this up.
"Our 407s didn't leak in Indonesia in rain so bad viz was 40 metres."
Combination of a newer design, and as you comment, straighter airframe.
Mart
Last edited by Graviman; 20th Aug 2005 at 15:54.
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my wishlist
How about an autopilot so I could grab a cup of joe while inflight? And if a nice looking flight attendant to attend to my every need came as standard equipment on an R22. (talk about mast bumping!)
Hey BP!
I will swap you all that TQ for my surplus TOT and N1
The only thing I would remove from any aircraft is the whinging poms...
Thou the gyro coffee cup would be appreciated.
I will swap you all that TQ for my surplus TOT and N1
The only thing I would remove from any aircraft is the whinging poms...
Thou the gyro coffee cup would be appreciated.
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Hehehehehe...
"gyro-stabilised cup/can/flask holders on a Gimble"
Nows that's good thinking!
Anyone seen http://earth.google.com/ ? Howabout a head-up-display (or even techno shades - the ones with laser imaging) that faintly overlayed roads etc onto the actual scenery? Even better a countour map for IFR - or does this sound like a potential accident?
Any other instruments folks would like to see? I often thought of an AOA indicator in addition to the ASI for gliding - even better if it gave differential AOA at wingtips for thermal soaring direction. I guess magic thermal showing specs are a bit far fetched...
Anyone got any gripes about different types of landing gear? I imagine wheels are more convenient (if you remember to lower them
), but skids take more abuse.
Regarding "poor ergonomics on B407", anyone fancy a nice supine recumbent seat to doze off in? Maybe similar in back, to counter "back 'seats' in Hughes 500"?
Mart
Nows that's good thinking!
Anyone seen http://earth.google.com/ ? Howabout a head-up-display (or even techno shades - the ones with laser imaging) that faintly overlayed roads etc onto the actual scenery? Even better a countour map for IFR - or does this sound like a potential accident?
Any other instruments folks would like to see? I often thought of an AOA indicator in addition to the ASI for gliding - even better if it gave differential AOA at wingtips for thermal soaring direction. I guess magic thermal showing specs are a bit far fetched...
Anyone got any gripes about different types of landing gear? I imagine wheels are more convenient (if you remember to lower them
), but skids take more abuse.Regarding "poor ergonomics on B407", anyone fancy a nice supine recumbent seat to doze off in? Maybe similar in back, to counter "back 'seats' in Hughes 500"?
Mart
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Interesting to see that you didn't give the S300 a punch there Graviman.
I'd like better seats in the S300C, how about making them adjustable hey? A cup holder and an ash tray would be nice...
and when you start thinking about it. Why not throw in a gas BBQ, a fridge and a woman to clean the mess I make. And not to forget, a coffee maker!
I'd like better seats in the S300C, how about making them adjustable hey? A cup holder and an ash tray would be nice...
and when you start thinking about it. Why not throw in a gas BBQ, a fridge and a woman to clean the mess I make. And not to forget, a coffee maker!
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I have an ashtry in mine (Enstrom). I had to take up smoking again, just to use it!
Decent Recaro seats would do a lot to improve virtually all helicopters.
A receptacle for a mapco unit would also be a plus.
Decent Recaro seats would do a lot to improve virtually all helicopters.
A receptacle for a mapco unit would also be a plus.
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"Why not throw in a gas BBQ, a fridge and a woman to clean the mess I make. And not to forget, a coffee maker!"
Methinks you's not takin' this thread too serious.
Aw, hell with it - howabout a micrywave?
Mart
Methinks you's not takin' this thread too serious.
Aw, hell with it - howabout a micrywave?
Mart
