Theory training requirements for pilots
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Theory training requirements for pilots
Is it just me or does anyone else think that the theory requirements for pilots (especially ATPL(H)) too much?
Case in point: The UK ATPL(H) theory requirements. In my opinion, the requirements (theory I'm talking about - not the flying requirements) are some of the most stringent around. These make other country's requirements look like kindergarten.
Does it have to really be this way? Theory does not make a good pilot. The ability to fly an aircraft well and co-ordinate with your other crewmembers is the vital point here. I suppose "manage" is the most correct term.
I don't use half the stuff that my ATPL(H) theory course taught me.
Am I on my own with this thinking? Keen to hear rational replies.
Case in point: The UK ATPL(H) theory requirements. In my opinion, the requirements (theory I'm talking about - not the flying requirements) are some of the most stringent around. These make other country's requirements look like kindergarten.
Does it have to really be this way? Theory does not make a good pilot. The ability to fly an aircraft well and co-ordinate with your other crewmembers is the vital point here. I suppose "manage" is the most correct term.
I don't use half the stuff that my ATPL(H) theory course taught me.
Am I on my own with this thinking? Keen to hear rational replies.
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Isn't the ATPL requirements/exams the same in all the JAA countries ?
This has nothing to do with your question, but from what you wrote I got the impression that there are national ATPL exams ? Is there ?
RotorSwede
This has nothing to do with your question, but from what you wrote I got the impression that there are national ATPL exams ? Is there ?
RotorSwede
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I am only just starting down the long road (PPL H, 90 hours R22) but half the stories on this forum really do worry me!
Just an example the title of another thread reads "I will pay employer $10000" ...what?
And now your saying half the stuff Im hoping to study next year could be irrelevant !
Mady
Just an example the title of another thread reads "I will pay employer $10000" ...what?
And now your saying half the stuff Im hoping to study next year could be irrelevant !
Mady
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I beg to differ - theory does make a better pilot - the difference is that the JAR guys make you learn it at the beginning and expect you to be a seasoned professional from the start, whereas, in the USA and Canada, for example, you will still end up with the same knowledge but you learn it when you need it and it is recognised that you still have something to learn. The ground school you get as you change from type to type tends to cover it.
I found the stuff about departure and cosines etc very useful in N Canada when calculating bearings in my head - so much so that customers didn't believe I knew what I was doing when I didn't punch it into the GPS. They still got there, though!
I do agree that the helicopter exams are riddled with fixed wing theory, but there's an element of that anywhere. I also agree that the Transport Canada flight exams (have no experience of US ones) are waaay better and much more practical.
Phil
I found the stuff about departure and cosines etc very useful in N Canada when calculating bearings in my head - so much so that customers didn't believe I knew what I was doing when I didn't punch it into the GPS. They still got there, though!
I do agree that the helicopter exams are riddled with fixed wing theory, but there's an element of that anywhere. I also agree that the Transport Canada flight exams (have no experience of US ones) are waaay better and much more practical.
Phil
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Some of it will never be relevent to helicopter pilots (North Atlantic Track Systems) but 90% of it is.
But can you name any exam that is 100% relevent to what you will do with the qualification?
h-r
But can you name any exam that is 100% relevent to what you will do with the qualification?
h-r
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In my opinion it is far better to know something and never need to use that knowledge than it is to not know something and find you need it at a crucial point in your career, or worse flight.
H.
H.
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Thecontroller you obviously feel very passionately about this subject, perversly you have probably already done these exams or never intend to do them, whereas I will shortly be studying for them; and I still think the more knowledge you have the better your ability to make the right decision when the time comes.
having said that I agree that there should be a set of exams which are helicopter specific; and I believe they are being draughted as we speak. it could well be better the devil you know.
H.
having said that I agree that there should be a set of exams which are helicopter specific; and I believe they are being draughted as we speak. it could well be better the devil you know.
H.
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Hemac
Sorry, but I have to agree with the controller.
Let me know after you finish the exams. Yes, you will learn alot but I guarantee you that you will either not use alot of the theory, or forget it pretty damn quick.
Bring more reality into the examination system I say.
Sorry, but I have to agree with the controller.
Let me know after you finish the exams. Yes, you will learn alot but I guarantee you that you will either not use alot of the theory, or forget it pretty damn quick.
Bring more reality into the examination system I say.
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You're not telling me that knowing what wattage the runway lights are or knowing all about the gradient of a half tarmacced runway will make you a better helicopter pilot? Rubbish
2. Is the theory component about 'making you a better helicopter pilot' or about a common language that everybody in the sky uses? Lets extend that one. Why should doctors study surgery if they want to be a GP? Or accountants tax if they intend to be auditors? Perhaps we can have bespoke, buy the bits you want, training so you only study what you want to .. anarchy.
3. Helicopter specific Met? Helicopter specific Air Law? Helicopter specific VFR Comms? Helicopters spe .... etc There is some Ops Procs and some Flight Planning that is obviously for airliners. M&B is just being helicopterised by the GTS team o.bh.o. the CAA so you can do M&B on a Puma or a 269 from next year
The current system may not be perfect but it has standardisation. Even making it more H focused will be some minor changes around the side rather than something totally different.
h-r
(Incidently, I hate the damn exams, but thems the rules..)
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The same scenario is showing up with the thread about UK CAA helicopter instrument ratings.
The time and cost required never ceases to amaze me.
I'm not saying degrade what a pilot needs to know - just make it more realistic.
(I'll get off my soapbox now)
The time and cost required never ceases to amaze me.
I'm not saying degrade what a pilot needs to know - just make it more realistic.
(I'll get off my soapbox now)
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re jobs
Having decided a career change a few years ago. Gone though all the motions Jaa exams etc. Time away studing at one of the specialist ground schools at a massive cost. Im left in a very bewilding frame of mind. All the Heli schools and firms you so gladly gave your money to, who promised you the earth( or the air ,so to speak) all of a sudden when asking for work of some sort have suddenly "had to cut costs " and will contact you when something crops up. I have been around the Heli world for a few years now and am gobsmacked at the lack of loyalty to their students . I am very well aware companies have to make money , but where on earth has the niceness gone .
To all you wannabe heli pilots out there. SPEND ya money on a something else, cos you will get more pleasure from it. Oh and by the way I did Get my Jaa cpl and i use it , however its gonna take me a very long time to recupe some of the costs back .
To all you wannabe heli pilots out there. SPEND ya money on a something else, cos you will get more pleasure from it. Oh and by the way I did Get my Jaa cpl and i use it , however its gonna take me a very long time to recupe some of the costs back .
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I must admit that I thought the helicopter examinations at commercial level had been sorted out. Helicopter theory exams were simply being dragged behind the fixed wing equivalent for a long time and I understand that because commercial helicopter ops were late starters compared to airlines. When I did my commercial helicopter writtens I had to make a fuel plan for a VC10 from T'bilisi to Cork or somewhere like that....now that was quite irrelevant I thought, nonetheless, a fuel plan is a fuel plan.
Having taken the Canadian, the US and the Brit Helicopter tests, the only one that caused concern was the Brit version. The Canadian and US system is such that you buy a book of questions, work your way through them learning as you go, then you walk into an examination centre and take the test which will contain 300 of the questions you just studied - dead easy. Very practical, very user friendly and low cost.
The British system is obviously far more complex and certainly has the effect of sorting out the wheat from the chaff - maybe thats the aim.
Knowledge is good, however, I do believe that there is a tendency to cram pilots full of unnecessary info in the UK and to make life unnecessarily difficult for the aspiring commercial helicopter pilot. Let's hope the new exams do the trick.
Having taken the Canadian, the US and the Brit Helicopter tests, the only one that caused concern was the Brit version. The Canadian and US system is such that you buy a book of questions, work your way through them learning as you go, then you walk into an examination centre and take the test which will contain 300 of the questions you just studied - dead easy. Very practical, very user friendly and low cost.
The British system is obviously far more complex and certainly has the effect of sorting out the wheat from the chaff - maybe thats the aim.
Knowledge is good, however, I do believe that there is a tendency to cram pilots full of unnecessary info in the UK and to make life unnecessarily difficult for the aspiring commercial helicopter pilot. Let's hope the new exams do the trick.
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Having taken the Canadian, the US and the Brit Helicopter tests, the only one that caused concern was the Brit version. The Canadian and US system is such that you buy a book of questions, work your way through them learning as you go, then you walk into an examination centre and take the test which will contain 300 of the questions you just studied - dead easy. Very practical, very user friendly and low cost.
In my opinion.
Mind you, I'm not looking forward to the exams.
H.
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hemac
You got some very definite opinions there but something tells me you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to professional training programs and examinations.
Excuse me for asking but have you even got a private pilots ticket?
You got some very definite opinions there but something tells me you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to professional training programs and examinations.
Excuse me for asking but have you even got a private pilots ticket?
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Hemac
I'm not suggesting that the questions are commited to memory, what I am saying is that the questions are published in a book which teaches you the subject matter using the actual questions you will see in the test. Seems quite sensible to me, no surprises on the day of the test.
I found them dead easy. Perhaps you would be more comfortable with...dead easy in comparison to...
I failed my cycling proficiency test.
I'm not suggesting that the questions are commited to memory, what I am saying is that the questions are published in a book which teaches you the subject matter using the actual questions you will see in the test. Seems quite sensible to me, no surprises on the day of the test.
I found them dead easy. Perhaps you would be more comfortable with...dead easy in comparison to...
I failed my cycling proficiency test.
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I sit here with my CPL aviation law study manual in front of me - I am inclined to agree with Hemac and don't anybody dare suggest that I know nothing about sitting professional exams with a degree and a Chartered Accountant to boot!
Bronx and tommacklin, it does sound very much as though the exams to which you refer can be learned by rote without any fundamental understanding of the principles involved. It doesn't sound sensible to me at all.
Cheers
Whirlygig
PS - Helicopter red-eye - auditors will still have to audit the tax accounts in a set of financial statements
Bronx and tommacklin, it does sound very much as though the exams to which you refer can be learned by rote without any fundamental understanding of the principles involved. It doesn't sound sensible to me at all.
Cheers
Whirlygig
PS - Helicopter red-eye - auditors will still have to audit the tax accounts in a set of financial statements
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At least for the FAA system it's actually easier to learn the subject as opposed to just remembering the questions (with answers!). If you know your subject relatively ok + study the question bank at great length you should definately know your stuff. If you don't, you will probably fail the oral part of the practical exam anyway.
The JAA system is much more about learning questions by heart. Without dedication to feedback questions, or a crammar course which is normally based on feedback, I would definately have failed a subject like air law.
The JAR syllabus is so wide that it's almost impossible to pass some of the tests without information of what's normally asked in the exams. When the JAR was introduced and there was no feedback I know a group of maybe 12 people doing meteorology - the only one that passed the test was a meteorologist!
The FAA system is far more superior where you concentrate on theory that will help you to keep yourself alive. The JAA system is just something you do to please the authorities.
The JAA system is much more about learning questions by heart. Without dedication to feedback questions, or a crammar course which is normally based on feedback, I would definately have failed a subject like air law.
The JAR syllabus is so wide that it's almost impossible to pass some of the tests without information of what's normally asked in the exams. When the JAR was introduced and there was no feedback I know a group of maybe 12 people doing meteorology - the only one that passed the test was a meteorologist!
The FAA system is far more superior where you concentrate on theory that will help you to keep yourself alive. The JAA system is just something you do to please the authorities.