Anyone flown (or fly) the Huey?
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,012
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From: USA
The myth of the maneuverability of the C and M models is interesting. I have flown them all, and could not say that the difference is appreciable.
Any ppruners from Bell who could tell us if a 540 rotor was worth anything as compared to the standard D or H head?
Any ppruners from Bell who could tell us if a 540 rotor was worth anything as compared to the standard D or H head?
Gatvol
Joined: Jun 2000
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From: KLAS/TIST/FAJS/KFAI
Maybe a Myth, as the books all say that the parameters of manuever were the same. I do recall one thing that with the shorter tailboom of the B, M, when Altitude is introduced into the equation such as mountains you can say LTE becomes a major concern.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,084
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From: the cockpit
B Sousa, you are right, the XM-23 mounts were used in a configuration we dubbed the "Mod 21". As for the miniguns:
Wash your mouth out sir. That noise is WHY we fly gunships!! Soft Kocks can always put the little front door window up, but then you can hear the loadmaster/doorgunner laughing at your fall of shot.
Seriously though, the little sliding window makes a hell of a difference to the beautiful sound of the minis, but I would imagine that the original configuration you yanks had with the minis mounted at the rear on the rocket pods would cause far more noise. In ours, the muzzles are almost in front of our ears, so the noise is likely to be considerably less.
And how about those Rocket Wires? When firing rockets, the loadmaster/gunner would often complain of being burnt (but few cared!), and the windscreen would be burn marked. The common theory was that the red hot rockets wires would fly into the cabin and settle onto the guys in the back, but after some slow motion film of extensive test firing done at ARDU in 1997/8 showed that in fact it was burning clumps of rocket propellant!!
Noise and hot rocket propellant. Thats why we flew them.
But I am always grateful that I only flew them on a one way range!
Rocket pods were not bad but Mini-guns. I still get a nosebleed from the noise of the guns behind my ears.
Seriously though, the little sliding window makes a hell of a difference to the beautiful sound of the minis, but I would imagine that the original configuration you yanks had with the minis mounted at the rear on the rocket pods would cause far more noise. In ours, the muzzles are almost in front of our ears, so the noise is likely to be considerably less.
And how about those Rocket Wires? When firing rockets, the loadmaster/gunner would often complain of being burnt (but few cared!
), and the windscreen would be burn marked. The common theory was that the red hot rockets wires would fly into the cabin and settle onto the guys in the back, but after some slow motion film of extensive test firing done at ARDU in 1997/8 showed that in fact it was burning clumps of rocket propellant!! Noise and hot rocket propellant. Thats why we flew them.
But I am always grateful that I only flew them on a one way range!
Joined: Sep 2002
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
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From: Great South East, tired and retired
The burns on the window looked like little black spiders, with a central spot and little radiating streaks. With enough of them on the window, and with the natural motion of your head looking around, it was possible to line two of them up in such a way as to make them seem to be a 3-dimensional object, and many a pilot has been about to take avoiding action on an imminent birdstrike.
I have some old poor-condition 8mm movie film shot through the gunsight while firing the minis and a ripple-14 rocket launch. The colours have faded sadly, but the sensation was still there. Minus the burning smells and the Fffffwwwwooooshhh sounds. Also captured (from the ground) a brown-eye from a door gunner.
Night gunnery was like holding a hose that was pushing out sparks, and playing the sparks onto the target. Just watch out for the used-up LUU-2B parachute flares from the overhead Chinook - as the flare burned out, it also burned through the parachute risers, and the remaining metal canister then dropped in the dark.
I have some old poor-condition 8mm movie film shot through the gunsight while firing the minis and a ripple-14 rocket launch. The colours have faded sadly, but the sensation was still there. Minus the burning smells and the Fffffwwwwooooshhh sounds. Also captured (from the ground) a brown-eye from a door gunner.
Night gunnery was like holding a hose that was pushing out sparks, and playing the sparks onto the target. Just watch out for the used-up LUU-2B parachute flares from the overhead Chinook - as the flare burned out, it also burned through the parachute risers, and the remaining metal canister then dropped in the dark.
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,012
Likes: 1
From: USA
For me, in the Snake, the rockets were king. Four pods with as many as 76 rockets (although the outboard pods were limited to about 13 rockets each, if my memory is correct. Got so we could hit anything with them, and they hit with a ton of thunder, especially the 17 pounders.
Mini-guns were fine for some stuff, but for me, rockets did the heavy work. I estimated once that I fired about 25,000 of them (500 times expended, about twice a day, at 50 rockets per load), and about 1 million rounds of 7.62, and maybe 100,000 40mm. As we used to say, no sense bringing that stuff home.
Mini-guns were fine for some stuff, but for me, rockets did the heavy work. I estimated once that I fired about 25,000 of them (500 times expended, about twice a day, at 50 rockets per load), and about 1 million rounds of 7.62, and maybe 100,000 40mm. As we used to say, no sense bringing that stuff home.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 3,008
Likes: 62
From: North Queensland, Australia
Thanks for the photos, Heliport.
773 and 377 were still around when I left in about 92, not 383 though. Fine machines.
We did some NVG firing, with a few trials before the cockpits were NVG modded using gaffa-taped cyalumes taped on to the coaming to illuminate the instruments and looking straight through the goggles into the gunsight - worked surprisingly well.
Nick, you should tee up a 'research' trip out this way for the occasion...a quiet beverage or two could be organised, I'm sure!
Thanks for publicising it, Helmet Fire; have got sh#t on up here that I can't get out of unfortunately, but will have a few in honour of the occasion anyway...
773 and 377 were still around when I left in about 92, not 383 though. Fine machines.
We did some NVG firing, with a few trials before the cockpits were NVG modded using gaffa-taped cyalumes taped on to the coaming to illuminate the instruments and looking straight through the goggles into the gunsight - worked surprisingly well.
Nick, you should tee up a 'research' trip out this way for the occasion...a quiet beverage or two could be organised, I'm sure!
Thanks for publicising it, Helmet Fire; have got sh#t on up here that I can't get out of unfortunately, but will have a few in honour of the occasion anyway...
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,084
Likes: 1
From: the cockpit
Keeping this one up the top until next week in case there is some old gunship guys who have not gotten the word yet.
AOTW - you will be missed. I am hoping there are more than a few of your vintage to drink with.
AOTW - you will be missed. I am hoping there are more than a few of your vintage to drink with.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 38
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From: Canberra
Are you guys aware of the 9 Squadron Association. I know they are looking into a book on the squadron that will invariably involve the bushrangers and the guys involved, another reason for a research trip to Oakey hey! I will just clarify i am not military but my grandfather was involved with 9 squadron during Vietnam, hence my interest.
Cheers
hueywsh
Cheers
hueywsh
Joined: Sep 2002
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 4,721
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From: Great South East, tired and retired
Is that shot of Bushie 71 a bit newer than 'Nam?
I thought we didn't have wire cutters, that v-shaped UHF on the roof or the heat suppressors on the engine cowls until the early 80s?
I thought we didn't have wire cutters, that v-shaped UHF on the roof or the heat suppressors on the engine cowls until the early 80s?
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 288
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From: USA
The arrival of the Aussie's in Nam added a touch of class to what otherwise would have been a vulger brawl. Hmmmm, perhaps I got that backwards....no matter, I loved those men...I still love those men.....in a manly sort of way of course....not that there would be anything wrong with the other way....I think I'll stop here before I become unwelcome on the beach at St. Kilda.
Joined: May 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 18,633
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From: Downeast
Rich....
"In, Hot!" begins to sound like something Freudian from you gunnies? It was bad enough you guys got into guns because you couldn't fly formation but this latest admission....gee, don't know if i would have said that!
"In, Hot!" begins to sound like something Freudian from you gunnies? It was bad enough you guys got into guns because you couldn't fly formation but this latest admission....gee, don't know if i would have said that!
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 409
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From: Europe
Might interest some of you to know that I recently came across a book called "Shockwave" in Dymocks bookshop in Sydney. It is the story of 9 Sqn RAAF in Vietnam. Only just into the first chapter so can't really comment on how good it is.
Some great pictures in it but obviously copyright prevents me from scanning and posting them.
For those intersted you can order it online here.
Some great pictures in it but obviously copyright prevents me from scanning and posting them.
For those intersted you can order it online here.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,197
Likes: 1
From: UK
It's obviously up to you, but I doubt if the publishers would be concerned about copyright when you've also given the book a good review and encouraged people to buy it.
On the issue of copyright generally, I can't recall anyone ever complaining about alleged breaches of copyright on Pprune.
(Apart from some of the photography enthusiasts in another forum.
)
Heliport
On the issue of copyright generally, I can't recall anyone ever complaining about alleged breaches of copyright on Pprune.
(Apart from some of the photography enthusiasts in another forum.
)Heliport
Joined: Sep 2002
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 4,721
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From: Great South East, tired and retired
Robbo Jock:
No, the FM whip antenna was about a foot laterally from the rotor, and pointed away from it. Bending it over would take a crosswind of 257.8 knots, just outside the limits of the tailboom.
No, the FM whip antenna was about a foot laterally from the rotor, and pointed away from it. Bending it over would take a crosswind of 257.8 knots, just outside the limits of the tailboom.
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 197
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From: Sydney, Australia
Bushranger retirement
Helmetfire
Thanks for the heads up on the Bushranger retirement.
Will the aircraft themselves be retired, or just the capability with the removal of the miniguns and pods from the inventory?
Cheers
Thanks for the heads up on the Bushranger retirement.
Will the aircraft themselves be retired, or just the capability with the removal of the miniguns and pods from the inventory?
Cheers