Dissymmetry of lift, flapping and blowback...
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off course - irrelevant
Quite right Shy, under the hypothetical circumstances you proffer.
"Why is that? If I was a student, I would certainly want to know the credentials of any tut ...... " ANSWER because this forum is not my student. This is a discussion forum. Logic should stand in it's own right. The Pope's credentials trumped Galileo's but we moved on eventually.
"Why is that? If I was a student, I would certainly want to know the credentials of any tut ...... " ANSWER because this forum is not my student. This is a discussion forum. Logic should stand in it's own right. The Pope's credentials trumped Galileo's but we moved on eventually.
The Pope's credentials trumped Galileo's but we moved on eventually
And you clearly haven't ever taught a real helicopter student in your life.
Your PM used the words 'wind up' twice but if you think you have been winding me up then you are too easily satisfied
Avoid imitations
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because this forum is not my student.
I doubt that many students could follow your discussion because your logic seems to become more esoteric and obscure in every post.
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Anti - the PoF bear no relevance to the "stick wiggling" that actually gets done.
Think of a car going around a corner. Does the driver need to know the forces in play on tyres, camber, suspension etc. of course not. We "wiggle" the steering wheel, poke occasionally at the pedals and the job gets done.
Anyway I am going to explore your talents seeing as you have them. The following pesky subjects have always confused me:
1. Can you please explain to me the coanda effect like on the MD902 tail boom?
2. Also the role of Coriolis acceleration in the tip path plane during forward flight?
3. Inflow roll (is this lunch or a real effect)
I have only got an "O" level in maths!
Thanks. DB
Think of a car going around a corner. Does the driver need to know the forces in play on tyres, camber, suspension etc. of course not. We "wiggle" the steering wheel, poke occasionally at the pedals and the job gets done.
Anyway I am going to explore your talents seeing as you have them. The following pesky subjects have always confused me:
1. Can you please explain to me the coanda effect like on the MD902 tail boom?
2. Also the role of Coriolis acceleration in the tip path plane during forward flight?
3. Inflow roll (is this lunch or a real effect)
I have only got an "O" level in maths!
Thanks. DB
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ANFI this is my joke for you:
Is "Flapback" something that only affects old female helicopter pilots??
And
Does "Hooks Joint Effect" only affect Chinese "Herricopper Pirrates"??
Or
Is "Inflow Roll" caused by eating lunch with the helicopter doors off??
Chill ANFI and I like the "Inflow Troll"
Is "Flapback" something that only affects old female helicopter pilots??
And
Does "Hooks Joint Effect" only affect Chinese "Herricopper Pirrates"??
Or
Is "Inflow Roll" caused by eating lunch with the helicopter doors off??
Chill ANFI and I like the "Inflow Troll"
Last edited by DOUBLE BOGEY; 17th Sep 2013 at 08:13.
The origins of the schism are lost in the mists of time, but it is thought to have happened around the year 2013.
The mystical anfi faction, similar in some ways to the mysterious sufi and totally unlike them in others, were of the view that the rotor disc, holy in its role as the giver of lift, responded to offerings from the lowly pilot in the form of control inputs that would cause elegant and beautiful flapping, after which all would be well.
This angered the followers of the crab faction, as it flew in the face of (no pun intended) their belief that the flap came before the dissymmetry of lift, or was it the other way around? In any case, they questioned the right of the anfi to speak on these matters, and moved away in haste making the finger-snapping sign of the holy crustacean to ward off evil.
Were the ancient texts to be taken literally, or should believers make their own interpretations? Was the gyroscopic effect real, or just some kind of simplistic explanation for the actions of the rotor blade, moving as it did in mysterious ways? Could this simple yet wonderfully flexible thing even be said to form a 'disc', as so many of the prophets would have them believe?
And so, we tell the story today. Please put offerings in the (swash) plate as it comes around, and so endeth the waffle.
The mystical anfi faction, similar in some ways to the mysterious sufi and totally unlike them in others, were of the view that the rotor disc, holy in its role as the giver of lift, responded to offerings from the lowly pilot in the form of control inputs that would cause elegant and beautiful flapping, after which all would be well.
This angered the followers of the crab faction, as it flew in the face of (no pun intended) their belief that the flap came before the dissymmetry of lift, or was it the other way around? In any case, they questioned the right of the anfi to speak on these matters, and moved away in haste making the finger-snapping sign of the holy crustacean to ward off evil.
Were the ancient texts to be taken literally, or should believers make their own interpretations? Was the gyroscopic effect real, or just some kind of simplistic explanation for the actions of the rotor blade, moving as it did in mysterious ways? Could this simple yet wonderfully flexible thing even be said to form a 'disc', as so many of the prophets would have them believe?
And so, we tell the story today. Please put offerings in the (swash) plate as it comes around, and so endeth the waffle.
And lo, the origins of the schism were revealed to the faithfull - in the mists of time were gathered the old and wise discussing the ways to avoid angering and being smitten by the hateful god of CFIT.
Yeah and verily did the wise and knowledgeable agree that paying sacrifice to the deities of godown and also slowdown was the wisest choice for those so blighted by the cruel nimbostratus, the god of lowering cloudbases and RADZ, the imp associated with diminishing visibility.
Yet there was a dissenter, a heretic amongst the high circle of ppruners, he alone claimed to possess mystical knowledge that would protect even the lowest of the low timers against the wrath of CFIT.
Speak! speak! The heretic was urged but all that emanated from the self-proclaimed visionary were ramblings in ancient tongues so confusing that none were able to decipher them.
Many times was the heretic asked to prove his worth by demonstrating his powers but, time and time again the masses were considered unworthy - surely they could just take his word as proof of his knowledge.
And so it came to pass that sacrifices to the gods of godown and slowdown, along with penitent acts in worship of the demi-gods of turnaround and justland became the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth to be passed down from generation to generation.
No more was heard from the heretic for many eons until one wise teacher tried to pass onto a youngling padawan, some secrets of the disc of rotor and how it's writhing and contorting could be controlled through the use of the sword of flapping to equality and the shield of dissymmetry of lift.
Once more the heretic's plaintive cries were heard from the wilderness - 'take the feathering stick of cyclic and repel the rotor' he pleaded, 'that will lead you to the path of wisdom and understanding for you are in the darkness'.
The masses responded in unison 'yes we already frickin knew that!'
The End
Yeah and verily did the wise and knowledgeable agree that paying sacrifice to the deities of godown and also slowdown was the wisest choice for those so blighted by the cruel nimbostratus, the god of lowering cloudbases and RADZ, the imp associated with diminishing visibility.
Yet there was a dissenter, a heretic amongst the high circle of ppruners, he alone claimed to possess mystical knowledge that would protect even the lowest of the low timers against the wrath of CFIT.
Speak! speak! The heretic was urged but all that emanated from the self-proclaimed visionary were ramblings in ancient tongues so confusing that none were able to decipher them.
Many times was the heretic asked to prove his worth by demonstrating his powers but, time and time again the masses were considered unworthy - surely they could just take his word as proof of his knowledge.
And so it came to pass that sacrifices to the gods of godown and slowdown, along with penitent acts in worship of the demi-gods of turnaround and justland became the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth to be passed down from generation to generation.
No more was heard from the heretic for many eons until one wise teacher tried to pass onto a youngling padawan, some secrets of the disc of rotor and how it's writhing and contorting could be controlled through the use of the sword of flapping to equality and the shield of dissymmetry of lift.
Once more the heretic's plaintive cries were heard from the wilderness - 'take the feathering stick of cyclic and repel the rotor' he pleaded, 'that will lead you to the path of wisdom and understanding for you are in the darkness'.
The masses responded in unison 'yes we already frickin knew that!'
The End
I know which one he thinks he is
Avoid imitations
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This is beginning to remind me of the circular discussions we had some years ago, with the late Lu Zuckerman.
Lu, who was not a pilot, was convinced that no-one else here knew how helicopters were controlled. He consistently argued that the cyclic controls merely provided forces to precess the rotor blades like a gyro - he just couldn't get it that aerodynamics were the key force.
RIP, Lu. Some entertaining (if not utterly frustrating) times.
Lu, who was not a pilot, was convinced that no-one else here knew how helicopters were controlled. He consistently argued that the cyclic controls merely provided forces to precess the rotor blades like a gyro - he just couldn't get it that aerodynamics were the key force.
RIP, Lu. Some entertaining (if not utterly frustrating) times.
Just fly the aircraft. Don't think too hard about how it all works, cos it'll just turn your brain to mush. And for goodness sake don't look up through the roof at the rotorhead spinning round. 
