MD600
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Join Date: Apr 2001
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Okay, so we pay for a retrofit. Something that the factory should. Alot less corrosion is still too much. We operate ours anywhere from sea level to 9K' with desert mixed in and 40C+.
And we will not get into all the cracks that have been fixed around the mast area due to the way we operate at low altitude. Or the tail.
And if the Boarder patrol like them, why are they only buying AS350B3's now?
Sorry, but the 600 was the worst purchase we ever made. At least it is being currently rectified.
And we will not get into all the cracks that have been fixed around the mast area due to the way we operate at low altitude. Or the tail.
And if the Boarder patrol like them, why are they only buying AS350B3's now?
Sorry, but the 600 was the worst purchase we ever made. At least it is being currently rectified.
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chopperdr, yes I think they are fdc.
Helimark, the point I was making is that Border Patrol are not afraid to perform off airport/heliport landings. I can not tell you why they are buying AS350B3s, I am sure there are plenty of reasons, not all of them to do with the aircraft either. I do know that the few Border Patrol pilots I talked to say that the AS350 will not perform their mission. They would much rather have 369F models.
After all, if you were at ALEA this year, there was only one aircraft manufacturer there with aircraft capable of flying demonstrations in the harsh envoirment.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Helimark, the point I was making is that Border Patrol are not afraid to perform off airport/heliport landings. I can not tell you why they are buying AS350B3s, I am sure there are plenty of reasons, not all of them to do with the aircraft either. I do know that the few Border Patrol pilots I talked to say that the AS350 will not perform their mission. They would much rather have 369F models.
After all, if you were at ALEA this year, there was only one aircraft manufacturer there with aircraft capable of flying demonstrations in the harsh envoirment.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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helimark / notar fan: what i cannot understand is why the border patrol has not elected to have a mixed fleet of as 350 / md 530f. after visiting or working at most of the usbp sectors, the statement i hear so often is just give us new 500 for the " in the dirt" ops and some astars for the heavier/higher ops and all would be good in the world. as an outside observer seems to me to be the logical solution.
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chopperdr,
There is one school of thought on that point you make. That is, that the reason the USBP bought the 600 in the first place was that the powers that be wanted to eliminate " in the dirt" operations.
They did'nt count on the 600 working so good down in the dirt.
Once again, the USBP pilots I have talked to say thats where they need to be to do there job effectively. They see the AS350 purchase as another attempt to keep them at 500ft, and it will probably work. They are two different aircraft, each suited for a different type of law enforcement mission.
There is one school of thought on that point you make. That is, that the reason the USBP bought the 600 in the first place was that the powers that be wanted to eliminate " in the dirt" operations.
They did'nt count on the 600 working so good down in the dirt.
Once again, the USBP pilots I have talked to say thats where they need to be to do there job effectively. They see the AS350 purchase as another attempt to keep them at 500ft, and it will probably work. They are two different aircraft, each suited for a different type of law enforcement mission.
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Chopperdr, you are so right about the 530F. Not sure if there is another helicopter out there that could do what it does in the dirt. I have been trying for years to get the powers to be, to make the 500E I fly into a 530F as I spend most of my time in the desert/mountains. And I do a significant amount of off field stuff.
Notar Fan, know I am not going to change your mind, but from one that has flown the 600 in the dirt, forget it. And as far as law enforcement application, if it was so good, why is the frame breaking in doing that job?
Mute point for me as we are completely converting over to AS350B2's. Sometime around February, I will get to put it to the test in the desert.
Notar Fan, know I am not going to change your mind, but from one that has flown the 600 in the dirt, forget it. And as far as law enforcement application, if it was so good, why is the frame breaking in doing that job?
Mute point for me as we are completely converting over to AS350B2's. Sometime around February, I will get to put it to the test in the desert.
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Helimark, I am not sure why the frame on the 600 cracks, just as I am not sure why the tailboom attach fittings on the AS350 series aircraft crack (AD 2001-04-14), and I never said that the MD600 was the finest example of american engineering ever built. I would perfer a 369F anyday.
I am just pointing out that the Border Patrol do make the aircraft work. Lets agree to disagree on this. I do wish you and all your colleagues many safe hours flying the AS350s, but just remember, if your "down in the dirt" you'll probably miss the luxury of NOTAR.
I am just pointing out that the Border Patrol do make the aircraft work. Lets agree to disagree on this. I do wish you and all your colleagues many safe hours flying the AS350s, but just remember, if your "down in the dirt" you'll probably miss the luxury of NOTAR.
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MD600
Endorsement training in a 600n caused a stir at Archerfield airport a couple of days ago. High time instructor didn't notice the engineers/ mechanics running out of hangars and madly waving arms as he started up.
3 to 4 feet of flame for about 30 seconds melted the turbine and the tailboom.
Bye bye dollars.
3 to 4 feet of flame for about 30 seconds melted the turbine and the tailboom.
Bye bye dollars.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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I heard from a very reliable source (haven't we all) that this is engine number 3 on this helicopter and the previous two went the same way.
Fadec problems apparently.
No fault of the pilot who I've heard is quite professional and well respected in the industry.
Fadec problems apparently.
No fault of the pilot who I've heard is quite professional and well respected in the industry.
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CECO Fadec!
There are some possible loops or holes in the logic. From memory (which can't be trusted these days) it is not possible or legal for that matter to start this engine in MANUAL. This can come about in a couple of ways. Collective switch set to manual or the engine has been shut down using the OVSP TEST (which is normal) and the throttle has not been returned to OFF from the previous shutdown. In this case the "levers in the HMU reset as the fuel pressure bleeds off." There would be an ECU degraded annunciation and theoretically the engine should not start. To rectify the problem the throttle needs to be placed in OFF and the engine motored to give enough pressure to reset the levers. Make sure your battery is good if this happens in a remote area!
Another catch is because the key position is not visible from the pilot's seat and you go through all the start procedure and omit the key, you push the starter button and nothing happens. Oh hang on, the key. When the key is turned ON the engine will immediately begin to start. Can be a bit disconcerting and leave you feeling left out of the control loop.
If your battery is a little weak the FADEC can shut itself down mid start and the engine will stop right where it is and look at you and stop accelerating. It can take time to notice - pay attention!
If the PLA (Power Lever Angle) potentiometer is goosed the engine can decide to accelerate on it's own from idle. This is a rare occurrence and has been rectified with luck. Didn't help in the middle of BF Indonesia though.
Another area that may be an issue, is if you have pilots with previous MD experience, that switch on the collective that is in the same place as the old N2 trim is most definitely NOT the N2 trim switch!
There was also an issue with quality control and incorrectly sized sockets installed in the FADEC control relays.
The one upside of the FADEC is it has increased the TBO and Hot inspection times on what is really only what the C30 should have been in the first place.
Remember the 600N was NOT designed it just growed like TOPSY. There never was a market for this aircraft and it would appear that's still true.
A new tailboom is over USD 100G.
Have moved on now to United Technologies equipment, P&W C with Hamilton Standard FADEC. Totally benign and you can start it manually. A few small problems with dirty connectors which comes from them being loose, but that is common to all.
There are some possible loops or holes in the logic. From memory (which can't be trusted these days) it is not possible or legal for that matter to start this engine in MANUAL. This can come about in a couple of ways. Collective switch set to manual or the engine has been shut down using the OVSP TEST (which is normal) and the throttle has not been returned to OFF from the previous shutdown. In this case the "levers in the HMU reset as the fuel pressure bleeds off." There would be an ECU degraded annunciation and theoretically the engine should not start. To rectify the problem the throttle needs to be placed in OFF and the engine motored to give enough pressure to reset the levers. Make sure your battery is good if this happens in a remote area!
Another catch is because the key position is not visible from the pilot's seat and you go through all the start procedure and omit the key, you push the starter button and nothing happens. Oh hang on, the key. When the key is turned ON the engine will immediately begin to start. Can be a bit disconcerting and leave you feeling left out of the control loop.
If your battery is a little weak the FADEC can shut itself down mid start and the engine will stop right where it is and look at you and stop accelerating. It can take time to notice - pay attention!
If the PLA (Power Lever Angle) potentiometer is goosed the engine can decide to accelerate on it's own from idle. This is a rare occurrence and has been rectified with luck. Didn't help in the middle of BF Indonesia though.
Another area that may be an issue, is if you have pilots with previous MD experience, that switch on the collective that is in the same place as the old N2 trim is most definitely NOT the N2 trim switch!
There was also an issue with quality control and incorrectly sized sockets installed in the FADEC control relays.
The one upside of the FADEC is it has increased the TBO and Hot inspection times on what is really only what the C30 should have been in the first place.
Remember the 600N was NOT designed it just growed like TOPSY. There never was a market for this aircraft and it would appear that's still true.
A new tailboom is over USD 100G.
Have moved on now to United Technologies equipment, P&W C with Hamilton Standard FADEC. Totally benign and you can start it manually. A few small problems with dirty connectors which comes from them being loose, but that is common to all.
!
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just heard that after engine shutdown that the student inadvertently reopened the throttle and the engine reignited and then ran at a thousand degrees for about thirty seconds, oops!!
bill is now over $400k,
bill is now over $400k,
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Giovanni Cento Nove
Well said and 100% on the money!!
You should post more often - would certainly help to inform some of the imposters who offer opinions on this forum.
More real information not old wives tales is what is needed!!
The 600N grew out of the MD 'skunk works'' to compete with the newly released B407 - not the European types.
Remember - these were ethe days when the race was on to produce the 'quiet helicopters' that some ensteins thought the world would have to buy! Nobody knew about it - not even most at MD until it was launched at the HAI ('96 I think)
Practical - not!
Good to fly - not!
Cheap to run - definitely not!! especially when you have pilots who have not been endorsed properly or done any ground school but are quite professional etc etc.
Well said and 100% on the money!!
You should post more often - would certainly help to inform some of the imposters who offer opinions on this forum.
More real information not old wives tales is what is needed!!
The 600N grew out of the MD 'skunk works'' to compete with the newly released B407 - not the European types.
Remember - these were ethe days when the race was on to produce the 'quiet helicopters' that some ensteins thought the world would have to buy! Nobody knew about it - not even most at MD until it was launched at the HAI ('96 I think)
Practical - not!
Good to fly - not!
Cheap to run - definitely not!! especially when you have pilots who have not been endorsed properly or done any ground school but are quite professional etc etc.
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grosser
well done 0% on the money
as a owner and a pilot of a md600 i have found your comments totally wrong
practical
very good can fit 6 people in with club seating rear seats low at rear but acceptable most of the time
good to fly you bet its a pilots machine [some non ysas machines can be a bit of a handfull]
cheap to run sorry but they are if any helicopter can be cheap to run .no big bills yet for maintenance aircrft 800 hrs tt had it for a couple of years now the new mdhi have had there problems with setting up but they are starting to get forward now
pilots do need to be properley qualifed but thats the same for all aircraft
your comment below however is true
You should post more often - would certainly help to inform some of the imposters who offer opinions on this forum.
More real information not old wives tales is what is needed!!
i own and fly my my 600 i also pay all of the bills and this is real information not old wives tales where does your information come from mother [added not meant as a us swear word mother f****** but wife ]
steve atherton
well done 0% on the money
as a owner and a pilot of a md600 i have found your comments totally wrong
practical
very good can fit 6 people in with club seating rear seats low at rear but acceptable most of the time
good to fly you bet its a pilots machine [some non ysas machines can be a bit of a handfull]
cheap to run sorry but they are if any helicopter can be cheap to run .no big bills yet for maintenance aircrft 800 hrs tt had it for a couple of years now the new mdhi have had there problems with setting up but they are starting to get forward now
pilots do need to be properley qualifed but thats the same for all aircraft
your comment below however is true
You should post more often - would certainly help to inform some of the imposters who offer opinions on this forum.
More real information not old wives tales is what is needed!!
i own and fly my my 600 i also pay all of the bills and this is real information not old wives tales where does your information come from mother [added not meant as a us swear word mother f****** but wife ]
steve atherton
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head turner
strange question dont understand what you mean but a crrect answer would be as per the poh and within the prescribed limits depend on weight of the passengers i dont know if you are infering something or trying to be clever please do let me know
steve
strange question dont understand what you mean but a crrect answer would be as per the poh and within the prescribed limits depend on weight of the passengers i dont know if you are infering something or trying to be clever please do let me know
steve
C of G, power , flames
In defence of the MD600, it is one of the very few helicopters that has the power to carry 6 passengers and full fuel. With regard to c of g , if you have one pilot - empty of fuel, one pilot- full of fuel, 6 passengers-empty of fuel or 6 passengers fuel of fuel it is still within limits. With regards to the original post the answer is simple, the pilot should not have applied after burner until he had at least taken off!!!
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MD600,
When you have 6 pax onboard with enough fuel to go anywhere,are you still within MTOW????From what I can remember unless atleast 2 of the pax are kids, it's not possible
When you have 6 pax onboard with enough fuel to go anywhere,are you still within MTOW????From what I can remember unless atleast 2 of the pax are kids, it's not possible