When do helis get junked?
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"factory overhauls the R22, the dismantle it down to the bare airframe..."
Interesting, design life af about 2200 hours. I make that about £55 an hour, just from lifecycle - sheesh! Engine the limit, or gearbox?
"There is no legal requirement to junk an aircraft, but there may be economic reasons to do so."
That does show promise though. Design a low cost aircraft for very low maintenance, and you have a winner. Especially if you can supply complete kits for local overhaul.
"... R-22 ... training mode ... "tough" hours ... accidents ... insurance."
So maybe design for very easy to fly (we're thinking augmented here), and designed for extreme manouvres? At worse JAR introduces "augmented" license...
"...important ... components ... 5 years although the airframe ... could be 30 years old."
Interesting, and definately sends the message about kits to overhaul or upgrade.
Mart
Interesting, design life af about 2200 hours. I make that about £55 an hour, just from lifecycle - sheesh! Engine the limit, or gearbox?
"There is no legal requirement to junk an aircraft, but there may be economic reasons to do so."
That does show promise though. Design a low cost aircraft for very low maintenance, and you have a winner. Especially if you can supply complete kits for local overhaul.
"... R-22 ... training mode ... "tough" hours ... accidents ... insurance."
So maybe design for very easy to fly (we're thinking augmented here), and designed for extreme manouvres? At worse JAR introduces "augmented" license...
"...important ... components ... 5 years although the airframe ... could be 30 years old."
Interesting, and definately sends the message about kits to overhaul or upgrade.
Mart
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There are lots of scrapped Enstroms about as a lot were imported to the UK in the 70s and 80s. What happened is that as they aged and depreciated the cost of maintenance increased. Eventually they ended up in the hands of people who wanted/could only afford a cheap helicopter. This usually coincided with a major overhaul becoming due at great cost. The owner could not justify the cost so the aircraft was abandoned or scrapped even though overhaul was possible.
The problem was that the people with the money needed to overhaul a clapped out Enstrom would not be seen dead in an old Enstrom.
What is happening now is that the value in these abandoned airframes is being seen and a few are being resurrected.
This is what happened to mine. The airframe is 30 years old and it was rebuilt from almost dead 3 years ago. It now has 1000+ hours left on all major components and will probably still be flying in another 30 years. Quite a few Ppruners have flown in it and all seem genuinely impressed.
The original data plate was lost but the log books existed. There was enough information on the remaining components for the CAA to identify it and allow a new data plate to be made by Enstrom.
Moral. Dont break it up when its had it. It could have a new lease of life later.
Edited cos I can't type!
The problem was that the people with the money needed to overhaul a clapped out Enstrom would not be seen dead in an old Enstrom.
What is happening now is that the value in these abandoned airframes is being seen and a few are being resurrected.
This is what happened to mine. The airframe is 30 years old and it was rebuilt from almost dead 3 years ago. It now has 1000+ hours left on all major components and will probably still be flying in another 30 years. Quite a few Ppruners have flown in it and all seem genuinely impressed.
The original data plate was lost but the log books existed. There was enough information on the remaining components for the CAA to identify it and allow a new data plate to be made by Enstrom.
Moral. Dont break it up when its had it. It could have a new lease of life later.
Edited cos I can't type!
Last edited by Gaseous; 10th May 2005 at 17:28.
Senis Semper Fidelis
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I agree with Gaseous, his Enstrom is near perfect looks the biz and flys really well, and is almost vibration free,
so age is something thats in the mind of the beholder,
(thats what I also tell the lady's)
Vfr
so age is something thats in the mind of the beholder,
(thats what I also tell the lady's)
Vfr
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Well, some things go soft with age... 
There was an EMS AS365N1 here in Sweden with lots of hours on it, previously oil-work, that had gone soft in the main cabin structure, which made the doors very difficult to close in flight. On ground with weight on wheels, no problem. In the air with everything hanging in the main rotor, doors jammed if opened.
But it did it's job until replaced and I think it's in France being rebuilt now.
/2beers
There was an EMS AS365N1 here in Sweden with lots of hours on it, previously oil-work, that had gone soft in the main cabin structure, which made the doors very difficult to close in flight. On ground with weight on wheels, no problem. In the air with everything hanging in the main rotor, doors jammed if opened.
But it did it's job until replaced and I think it's in France being rebuilt now.
/2beers
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"Enstrom ... airframe is 30 years old ... 1000+ hours left on all major components ... flying in another 30 years."
Wow.
"... ex-NYA 107-IIs ... highest-time helicopter in the world."
Double wow.
"Does this mean that twin-rotors is the best?"
Must admit Dave, i'm hoping you're taking away the lesson that a good design is simple rugged and extremely reliable....
"...EMS AS365N1 ... doors very difficult to close in flight. "
As a structural engineer, this scared the hell outa me! I've been known to introduce "permanent set" into airframes myself, but i really don't like the idea of that sort of flexibility. Generally that means that fatigue cracks are ganging up, and that a serious failure is imminent...
Does make me wonder if some machines are operated beyond a safe service life, although i always find the idea of finite design life abhorent.
Mart
Wow.
"... ex-NYA 107-IIs ... highest-time helicopter in the world."
Double wow.
"Does this mean that twin-rotors is the best?"
Must admit Dave, i'm hoping you're taking away the lesson that a good design is simple rugged and extremely reliable....
"...EMS AS365N1 ... doors very difficult to close in flight. "
As a structural engineer, this scared the hell outa me! I've been known to introduce "permanent set" into airframes myself, but i really don't like the idea of that sort of flexibility. Generally that means that fatigue cracks are ganging up, and that a serious failure is imminent...
Does make me wonder if some machines are operated beyond a safe service life, although i always find the idea of finite design life abhorent.
Mart
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Graviman,
Aircraft don't have to be old to get cockpit distortion. When I was a student hurrying back before dark from a solo navex I noticed that the doors gaped 1/2 an inch at the top. It scared me to death at the time. When I landed the gaps disappeared. The aircraft, an R22 was 4 years old. Sometimes when I landed I couldn't open the doors easily at all.
I suspect that this all occured within the elastic limits of the GRP and was not metal bending so not really too alarming.
Aircraft don't have to be old to get cockpit distortion. When I was a student hurrying back before dark from a solo navex I noticed that the doors gaped 1/2 an inch at the top. It scared me to death at the time. When I landed the gaps disappeared. The aircraft, an R22 was 4 years old. Sometimes when I landed I couldn't open the doors easily at all.
I suspect that this all occured within the elastic limits of the GRP and was not metal bending so not really too alarming.
Last edited by Gaseous; 11th May 2005 at 21:51.
