Tragedy at King Creek Station NT
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Aberdeen
Age: 50
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tragedy at King Creek Station NT
This post is a result of the thread in Dunnunda and Godzone
Aircrew Notices)
Recently investigated on Aus National TV by ABC Mediawatch.
A young Canadian tourist has died as a result of being
accidently splashed and burned with avgas by the stations
helicopter pilots, who where using the fuel from the
Kings Creek Station aircraft(R44/H300?) to light lanterns in
the camping grounds.
My question to our forum is have/should CASA investigated
this incident? Yes it may not be aviation related, but as a
helicopter owner would you be concerned that your
commercially rated pilots are using avgas to light fires
in tourist camping grounds. The same tourists that buy
your flights.
How often do CASA FOI's check these remote operations?
Have the pilots concerned had any proper trauma counselling?
The other thread indicates that the station owners have not
been to helpful with the Australian media or the unfortunate
girls family.
Check the D&G thread to read the ongoing investigation
by the girls father and his lawyers.
Very sad indeed
Aircrew Notices)Recently investigated on Aus National TV by ABC Mediawatch.
A young Canadian tourist has died as a result of being
accidently splashed and burned with avgas by the stations
helicopter pilots, who where using the fuel from the
Kings Creek Station aircraft(R44/H300?) to light lanterns in
the camping grounds.
My question to our forum is have/should CASA investigated
this incident? Yes it may not be aviation related, but as a
helicopter owner would you be concerned that your
commercially rated pilots are using avgas to light fires
in tourist camping grounds. The same tourists that buy
your flights.
How often do CASA FOI's check these remote operations?
Have the pilots concerned had any proper trauma counselling?
The other thread indicates that the station owners have not
been to helpful with the Australian media or the unfortunate
girls family.
Check the D&G thread to read the ongoing investigation
by the girls father and his lawyers.
Very sad indeed
Last edited by Makila; 26th Apr 2005 at 13:22.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Queensland Australia
Posts: 267
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Come on, Get Real!
Are you suggesting that if it had been car fuel or bike fuel then the local traffic branch of the police should be investigating? Or perhaps if they had used lighter fluid then the local lung cancer researcher should be involved. Or perhaps if it had been Citronella insect repeller then the local museum curator should be involved.
CASA do enough persecuting of pilots as it is. Please stop putting crackpot suggestions like this in the public domain because some CASA official will say there is public support for CASA to expand its role in civilian safety.
Are you suggesting that if it had been car fuel or bike fuel then the local traffic branch of the police should be investigating? Or perhaps if they had used lighter fluid then the local lung cancer researcher should be involved. Or perhaps if it had been Citronella insect repeller then the local museum curator should be involved.
CASA do enough persecuting of pilots as it is. Please stop putting crackpot suggestions like this in the public domain because some CASA official will say there is public support for CASA to expand its role in civilian safety.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: 3 Degrees North
Posts: 370
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Uhm... I agree with Robborider that CASA has no requirement to investigate this unfortunate case. Sadly a person died, as a negligent and stupid act from an individual. I feel that this should be a Police matter and subsequent legal charges being applied. It however will not replace the distress and loss to the family's victim, but at least reduce and/or prevent stupid or criminal act such as this case.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Aberdeen
Age: 50
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RobboRider
" CASA do enough persecuting of pilots as it is"
As a long term ATPL(H) rated pilot in Aus, I have never
been persecuted by CASA.
Your profile descibes you as a PPL(H) holder, who as
a doctor owns an R22 with your own heli fishing website???
My question relates to commercial helicopter aviation, and
the ramiforcations for a heli business owner if his/her staff
are involved in my original thread.
Private owners like yourself are the most likely CASA targets, as people have flown around AUS filling in the MR based on their own ideas of the airborne time- and many an R22 has crashed as a result of time fiddling(snapped timex blades). The Hobbs meter is a joke- see CASAs airborne recording proposals for
private aircraft www.casa.gov.au
Are they citronella candles around some of your impressive
helifishing R22 photos?
If you have your own helicopter, and run a safe operation-
why the hysteria over CASA?
" CASA do enough persecuting of pilots as it is"
As a long term ATPL(H) rated pilot in Aus, I have never
been persecuted by CASA.
Your profile descibes you as a PPL(H) holder, who as
a doctor owns an R22 with your own heli fishing website???
My question relates to commercial helicopter aviation, and
the ramiforcations for a heli business owner if his/her staff
are involved in my original thread.
Private owners like yourself are the most likely CASA targets, as people have flown around AUS filling in the MR based on their own ideas of the airborne time- and many an R22 has crashed as a result of time fiddling(snapped timex blades). The Hobbs meter is a joke- see CASAs airborne recording proposals for
private aircraft www.casa.gov.au
Are they citronella candles around some of your impressive
helifishing R22 photos?
If you have your own helicopter, and run a safe operation-
why the hysteria over CASA?
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I totally agree.
Despite some of our more focused friends here that like to throw daggers at our regulator, in my view CASA does a difficult job very well.
With nearly 35 years in professional aviation, I to have never ever been targeted by CASA, CAA, DOT and their predecessors. Maybe that’s a reflection of trying to do things correctly all this time, or lucky? [I think the former].
As I have said many times here, if you have a beef, don’t whine, get involved and assist where your assistance is really relevant and appreciated.….on the various CASA Sub Committees….
I also agree, this tragic event [as apart from an accident] should and will be handled by the police at local state level.
Where did the Avgas come from……that to will be interesting.
With nearly 35 years in professional aviation, I to have never ever been targeted by CASA, CAA, DOT and their predecessors. Maybe that’s a reflection of trying to do things correctly all this time, or lucky? [I think the former].
As I have said many times here, if you have a beef, don’t whine, get involved and assist where your assistance is really relevant and appreciated.….on the various CASA Sub Committees….
I also agree, this tragic event [as apart from an accident] should and will be handled by the police at local state level.
Where did the Avgas come from……that to will be interesting.
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland
Posts: 943
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I find this accident to be not only tragic but very strange. Most lanterns would run on kero or Jet A1, not avgas. Jet A1 splashed on someone, unless a total bath, would be most unlikely to kill them. On the other hand most 'bush' charter pilots would be used to throwing avgas on wood in the evening to get a fire going quickly after a 8 hour flying day.
I expect something has been omitted in the report.
I expect something has been omitted in the report.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: donga's
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Reports featured late last month on the ABC Lateline program.
Link Here
29.03.05 and 30.3.05
Makes very interesting viewing as the property owner repeatedly claims 'he doesn't care' and another male man handles the lawyer. Dissapointing actions in front of a greiving father only looking for answers.
WLM,
Before we call anyone 'negligent or stupid' we should allow all the facts to be presented.
I believe the individual involved was using the avgas lanterns only to provide minimum lighting outside his residence, as numerous requests for as basic electrical faciliites had being denied by the property owner.
Makila,
The father has requested investigations into both the helicopter operator and the property owner. And to further expand your question, who is responsible for the pilots actions after hours ?
Cammo
Link Here
29.03.05 and 30.3.05
Makes very interesting viewing as the property owner repeatedly claims 'he doesn't care' and another male man handles the lawyer. Dissapointing actions in front of a greiving father only looking for answers.
WLM,
Before we call anyone 'negligent or stupid' we should allow all the facts to be presented.
I believe the individual involved was using the avgas lanterns only to provide minimum lighting outside his residence, as numerous requests for as basic electrical faciliites had being denied by the property owner.
Makila,
The father has requested investigations into both the helicopter operator and the property owner. And to further expand your question, who is responsible for the pilots actions after hours ?
Cammo
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Australia
Age: 47
Posts: 728
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I worked on that station many years ago flying with another mate of mine...and can vouch for the attitude of the property owner/s....we were up there to fly and fly only, and were totally seperate from the station runnings, and to be told we were bludgers because we wouldnt wash 100+dishes in the morning after breakfast due to the fact we had bus loads of flyers to attend to drew the line, from there on in we were told to provide our own meals but could have dinner at an rather inflated price!!
mind you the helicopter company that leases the helipad pays a mighty good dollar to do so and, cant even get simple power to the huts the pilots live in doesnt surprise me at all...im sure others who have worked there agree sad, but hey we all needed the hours back then!
mind you the helicopter company that leases the helipad pays a mighty good dollar to do so and, cant even get simple power to the huts the pilots live in doesnt surprise me at all...im sure others who have worked there agree
sad, but hey we all needed the hours back then!
Belly Tank,
Must agree with you, that the owners of that property view helicopter pilots as 'Glorified Taxi Drivers'. Flew their a while back and it didn't take much too upset Ol' Ezy. If you were not flying he/she/they expected you to work on the station. Even made noises about another pilots flying practices. Chased pilots off that station !
Sad to read about this incident, though the owners of the station I would suggest were bound as overall employers to provide and an safe working/living environment and from if all is true as posted seems they failed in my opinion.
NB
Must agree with you, that the owners of that property view helicopter pilots as 'Glorified Taxi Drivers'. Flew their a while back and it didn't take much too upset Ol' Ezy. If you were not flying he/she/they expected you to work on the station. Even made noises about another pilots flying practices. Chased pilots off that station !
Sad to read about this incident, though the owners of the station I would suggest were bound as overall employers to provide and an safe working/living environment and from if all is true as posted seems they failed in my opinion.NB
Last edited by Nev Bartos; 25th Jan 2006 at 03:58.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Oz
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Makila,
You started the thread. Nigels reply was given before Cammo's link so it would have been a bit hard for him to check don't you think? If you don't like the reply's you are getting then delete the thread and bugger off.
You started the thread. Nigels reply was given before Cammo's link so it would have been a bit hard for him to check don't you think? If you don't like the reply's you are getting then delete the thread and bugger off.
It seems that this whole incident has been blown out of all proportion in relation to the helicopter industry and while it was a horrific thing to happen to the girl involved, the fact that it was a pilot who was responsible seems somewhat irrelevant.
The attitude of the station owner towards pilots whilst somewhat legendry has no relevance, nor that of the helicopter operator.
Nev, as you sign your location as "The Resi" and only registered late last year, those of us who have worked at the Rock may suggest that you are closer to the source of the story than most?
The attitude of the station owner towards pilots whilst somewhat legendry has no relevance, nor that of the helicopter operator.
Nev, as you sign your location as "The Resi" and only registered late last year, those of us who have worked at the Rock may suggest that you are closer to the source of the story than most?
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pilot won't return over tourist's death
Just reported on the ABC webiste:
I say come back and face up to your actions like a man!
A New Zealand helicopter pilot says he does not intend to return to Australia to face criminal charges related to the death of a Canadian tourist in central Australia two years ago.
Cynthia Ching, 29, died after she was splashed with ignited aviation fuel at a party at Kings Creek Station south-west of Alice Springs in April 2004.
Edward Lee was facing a criminal charge in relation to the incident but the Northern Territory Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) has dropped the charge because he cannot be extradited to Australia.
The DPP says it will reinstate the charge if Mr Lee comes to Australia but the pilot says he has no plans to return.
"The charges have been dropped, so at the moment the question's sort of irrelevant," he said.
"You've got to cross each bridge as you come to it and the charges have been dropped, so from my point of view there's no need to."
Ms Ching's father, Ralph, had said Mr Lee should act responsibly and come to Australia to face criminal proceedings.
"I think Ned Lee should actually face up to the music," Mr Ching said.
"I think he's a young man and he's going to give up a lot of freedom by not showing up. He's going to be a wanted man in Australia. He can't travel.
"It's not worth it. It happened but you've just got to face the music."
The Ching family's lawyer, Craig Paterson, says he does not understand why Northern Territory authorities have dropped the charges.
"There might be some peculiarity of the Australian legal system or the Northern Territory legal system that explains it but the other thing is that no written explanation has been given or no explanation of any kind to the Ching family," he said.
"We all heard it over here through the media."
Mr Lee says he first learnt about the charge through the media and says he was never asked to come to Australia to face court by Northern Territory police.
"Australian police had my home phone number and then I read in an article that they couldn't extradite me and they couldn't get hold of me, and as I say I found that out in a New Zealand newspaper," he said.
Northern Territory officials say Mr Lee cannot be summoned over the dangerous act causing death charge because New Zealand does not have an equivalent charge. Without the summons, extradition cannot go ahead.
The Northern Territory Government has since changed the law, replacing doing a dangerous act causing death with manslaughter.
Cynthia Ching, 29, died after she was splashed with ignited aviation fuel at a party at Kings Creek Station south-west of Alice Springs in April 2004.
Edward Lee was facing a criminal charge in relation to the incident but the Northern Territory Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) has dropped the charge because he cannot be extradited to Australia.
The DPP says it will reinstate the charge if Mr Lee comes to Australia but the pilot says he has no plans to return.
"The charges have been dropped, so at the moment the question's sort of irrelevant," he said.
"You've got to cross each bridge as you come to it and the charges have been dropped, so from my point of view there's no need to."
Ms Ching's father, Ralph, had said Mr Lee should act responsibly and come to Australia to face criminal proceedings.
"I think Ned Lee should actually face up to the music," Mr Ching said.
"I think he's a young man and he's going to give up a lot of freedom by not showing up. He's going to be a wanted man in Australia. He can't travel.
"It's not worth it. It happened but you've just got to face the music."
The Ching family's lawyer, Craig Paterson, says he does not understand why Northern Territory authorities have dropped the charges.
"There might be some peculiarity of the Australian legal system or the Northern Territory legal system that explains it but the other thing is that no written explanation has been given or no explanation of any kind to the Ching family," he said.
"We all heard it over here through the media."
Mr Lee says he first learnt about the charge through the media and says he was never asked to come to Australia to face court by Northern Territory police.
"Australian police had my home phone number and then I read in an article that they couldn't extradite me and they couldn't get hold of me, and as I say I found that out in a New Zealand newspaper," he said.
Northern Territory officials say Mr Lee cannot be summoned over the dangerous act causing death charge because New Zealand does not have an equivalent charge. Without the summons, extradition cannot go ahead.
The Northern Territory Government has since changed the law, replacing doing a dangerous act causing death with manslaughter.
Any reward or bounty outstanding for this guy if returned to Oz?
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ive just read this thread for the first time and i gotta Say!! I'm Gob Smacked,,,,
What a tragic end to a young womans life!! and to make matters worse her Poor father and Family is unable have some sort of Closure!!!
I really believe the Pilot responsible should volunteer and return to Australia and face the music as it were!!!Having said that i believe the Station Owner needs his F%^ing head kicked in!!!!What Happened to Duty of Care?
Obviously if suitable accomodation had been provided in the first place! for the Pilots,then there would of been no need to be using Avgas! to light lantens etc....Edward Lee get back here!! let this young womans Father have some closer!!!
What a tragic end to a young womans life!! and to make matters worse her Poor father and Family is unable have some sort of Closure!!!
I really believe the Pilot responsible should volunteer and return to Australia and face the music as it were!!!Having said that i believe the Station Owner needs his F%^ing head kicked in!!!!What Happened to Duty of Care?
Obviously if suitable accomodation had been provided in the first place! for the Pilots,then there would of been no need to be using Avgas! to light lantens etc....Edward Lee get back here!! let this young womans Father have some closer!!!
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another version from NZ media
Loophole means death charge dropped
24 January 2006
A New Zealand man who faced criminal charges in Australia says he was never asked to return to Australia, despite prosecutors saying the charges were dropped because they were unable to extradite him.
Pilot Edward John Woodhouse Lee, of Wellington, was charged over the death of Canadian Cynthia Ching, 29, who died six weeks after she was engulfed by flames at a party at Kings Creek Station, in Central Australia, in April 2004.
It is believed she was set alight when ignited aviation gas being used as a makeshift lantern was inadvertently cast in her direction.
Mr Lee was also injured in the accident.
In August last year Northern Territory police issued a summons for Mr Lee to appear in court charged with a dangerous act causing death.
Crown prosecutor Nanette Rogers said yesterday the charge had been withdrawn in Alice Springs Magistrates Court last month.
Ms Rogers said there was no legislative equivalent of the charge in New Zealand, meaning authorities could not extradite Lee.
However Mr Lee told NZPA he had never been asked to return to Australia.
"The whole time I was never asked to return to Australia by the Northern Territory police. Not once was I ever asked to return. Most of the dealings have been coming through the lawyer and he would have told me if I had been asked to return."
Mr Lee said he did not run away from the accident or the legal implications.
"I stayed in Australia for almost a year after the accident. I didn't run from Australia after the accident," he said. "There was no indication they were going to lay any charges or anything until I returned to New Zealand and then found via an article they had (decided to lay charges)."
Ms Roger said she did not rule out further action in the future as there was no statute of limitations on the charge.
"Should he come to Australia then the wheels of justice will start again," she said.
A lawyer for the Ching family, Craig Paterson, said he found the legal situation "bizarre".
Loophole means death charge dropped
24 January 2006
A New Zealand man who faced criminal charges in Australia says he was never asked to return to Australia, despite prosecutors saying the charges were dropped because they were unable to extradite him.
Pilot Edward John Woodhouse Lee, of Wellington, was charged over the death of Canadian Cynthia Ching, 29, who died six weeks after she was engulfed by flames at a party at Kings Creek Station, in Central Australia, in April 2004.
It is believed she was set alight when ignited aviation gas being used as a makeshift lantern was inadvertently cast in her direction.
Mr Lee was also injured in the accident.
In August last year Northern Territory police issued a summons for Mr Lee to appear in court charged with a dangerous act causing death.
Crown prosecutor Nanette Rogers said yesterday the charge had been withdrawn in Alice Springs Magistrates Court last month.
Ms Rogers said there was no legislative equivalent of the charge in New Zealand, meaning authorities could not extradite Lee.
However Mr Lee told NZPA he had never been asked to return to Australia.
"The whole time I was never asked to return to Australia by the Northern Territory police. Not once was I ever asked to return. Most of the dealings have been coming through the lawyer and he would have told me if I had been asked to return."
Mr Lee said he did not run away from the accident or the legal implications.
"I stayed in Australia for almost a year after the accident. I didn't run from Australia after the accident," he said. "There was no indication they were going to lay any charges or anything until I returned to New Zealand and then found via an article they had (decided to lay charges)."
Ms Roger said she did not rule out further action in the future as there was no statute of limitations on the charge.
"Should he come to Australia then the wheels of justice will start again," she said.
A lawyer for the Ching family, Craig Paterson, said he found the legal situation "bizarre".
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the moment
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Deosn't the reference by the media to the poor guy as a helicopter pilot a sign that the media think pilots are responsible people?
The implication that he should have had control of himself would follow that train of thought.
Not nice how subtle use of languge casts a shadow...
Creaser
The implication that he should have had control of himself would follow that train of thought.
Not nice how subtle use of languge casts a shadow...
Creaser
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: On the border...
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
she was set alight when ignited aviation gas being used as a makeshift lantern was inadvertently cast in her direction.
...why the hell was it being cast in any direction ??? Sounds more like drunken horseplay gone wrong to me.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: australia
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Clarification
The avgas was being poured from a glass jar into a stubbie can with the top cut off and filled with sand. Apparently this was being used as a small campfire/light at the time. A spark jumped from the glass container to the aluminium and ignited. The person holding the jar, threw it away (knee jerk reaction) and ended up covering the victim with ignited fuel. Incidentally, he received 3rd degree burns to his arm as well. Was also told that there was a complication (or error) in the treatment at the hospital before her death.
I was told this from the horses mouth whislt working in the area (not there!) so please don't shoot the messenger!!!
I was told this from the horses mouth whislt working in the area (not there!) so please don't shoot the messenger!!!
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Coroner sees criminality in Ching death
I recall there was a thread on this topic in this forum some time ago but can't find it at the moment.
Is Mr Lee prepared to come back to Australia now?
The Northern Territory coroner has found an accident on a central Australian cattle station two years ago that led to the death of a Canadian backpacker may have been criminal.
Cynthia Ching suffered burns while on a working holiday at Kings Creek Station, south-west of Alice Springs, in 2004.
The 29-year-old died from multiple organ failure in the Royal Adelaide Hospital six weeks later.
Coroner Greg Cavanagh handed down his findings in Alice Springs today.
Pilots Ben Harris and Ned Lee were using aviation fuel in lanterns made from cut-off beer cans.
Ms Ching was burned as Mr Lee refilled a lantern with the fuel and it caught fire.
Mr Cavanagh found that Mr Lee probably devised the lanterns and that both he and Mr Harris should have known they were inherently dangerous.
He said Mr Lee should have known it was manifestly dangerous to refill the lanterns in the way he did.
Mr Cavanagh said the actions may constitute a crime.
He will report his findings to police and the Department of Public Prosecutions to consider.
The department has already dropped a charge of doing a dangerous act against Mr Lee because he could not be extradited from New Zealand.
No secrecy
Mr Cavanagh also said the owner of the cattle station, Ian Conway, did not try to conceal the accident.
A police investigation only began after Ms Ching died.
Mr Cavanagh said Mr Conway made a passing reference to the accident to Sergeant Alistair Taylor from Kulgera Police the day after it occurred.
He said there may have been some miscommunication and he would not criticise Sergeant Taylor for not investigating further.
abc.net.au
Cynthia Ching suffered burns while on a working holiday at Kings Creek Station, south-west of Alice Springs, in 2004.
The 29-year-old died from multiple organ failure in the Royal Adelaide Hospital six weeks later.
Coroner Greg Cavanagh handed down his findings in Alice Springs today.
Pilots Ben Harris and Ned Lee were using aviation fuel in lanterns made from cut-off beer cans.
Ms Ching was burned as Mr Lee refilled a lantern with the fuel and it caught fire.
Mr Cavanagh found that Mr Lee probably devised the lanterns and that both he and Mr Harris should have known they were inherently dangerous.
He said Mr Lee should have known it was manifestly dangerous to refill the lanterns in the way he did.
Mr Cavanagh said the actions may constitute a crime.
He will report his findings to police and the Department of Public Prosecutions to consider.
The department has already dropped a charge of doing a dangerous act against Mr Lee because he could not be extradited from New Zealand.
No secrecy
Mr Cavanagh also said the owner of the cattle station, Ian Conway, did not try to conceal the accident.
A police investigation only began after Ms Ching died.
Mr Cavanagh said Mr Conway made a passing reference to the accident to Sergeant Alistair Taylor from Kulgera Police the day after it occurred.
He said there may have been some miscommunication and he would not criticise Sergeant Taylor for not investigating further.
abc.net.au