RAN Sea King Crash in Indonesia (Merged)
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My wife and I were, and still are numb upon hearing the news of the tragic loss of a couple of our ex students in Matty (Goomper) and Scotty. We equally mourne the loss of Paul and Kingy who not only as great pilots but more importantly, great blokes made our job a joy in passing on our knowledge to these backseaters.
Our hearts go out to the wives, girlfriends, family and friends of these mates our ours. We hold tight to the memories of years gone by and are proud to have there names in our log books. Rest in Peace guys.
Our hearts go out to the wives, girlfriends, family and friends of these mates our ours. We hold tight to the memories of years gone by and are proud to have there names in our log books. Rest in Peace guys.
Stormy
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The Navy has grounded its Sea King helicopters after nine Australian Defence Force (ADF) personnel died when one of the 30-year-old choppers crashed in Indonesia on the weekend.
The Sea King helicopter from HMAS Kanimbla crashed as it was landing near a small village to deliver aid to victims of last week's earthquake.
Soon after the accident, defence analysts raised concerns about the age of the helicopters.
Prime Minister John Howard, Opposition Leader Kim Beazley, ADF chief General Peter Cosgrove and maritime commander, Rear Admiral Rowan Moffit, have all backed the Sea Kings, saying age is not necessarily a factor in the crash.
But Rear Admiral Moffit says he is taking a cautious approach and has grounded Australia's six remaining choppers until an inquiry is carried out.
"Until we find out more detail about exactly what occurred and why, we won't fly," he said.
"There isn't any pressing need for us to fly any of the aircraft at the moment, so we won't. We'll wait and see what the investigators have for us as they get into their inquiries."
Confidence
Ahead of the grounding, Mr Howard said the helicopters' age could not be presumed to be a factor.
"There are a lot of Sea King helicopters around the world of an equivalent age," the Prime Minister said.
"There are a lot of airframes that are in use by a lot of the air forces of many nations, not just Australia, which are 20-30 years [old], perhaps in some cases even more old.
"That has not been the experience of other countries - that that is necessarily the cause of a fatality or of an accident."
Mr Beazley, a former defence minister, agreed that the Sea Kings' age did not mean they were too old to be in service.
Mr Beazley said United States B-52 bombers had been in service for 50 years.
"You cannot automatically say that an aircraft that is 30 years old is by virtue of that fact alone now a problem," Mr Beazley told Channel Seven.
"But at the same time now in the minds of the investigators is the possibility that that would be the case."
General Cosgrove also expressed his confidence in the helicopters.
"Of course I've got confidence in the Sea Kings," he said. "They have performed tremendous work and they are maintained by very professional aviation maintenance staff."
The Sea King helicopter from HMAS Kanimbla crashed as it was landing near a small village to deliver aid to victims of last week's earthquake.
Soon after the accident, defence analysts raised concerns about the age of the helicopters.
Prime Minister John Howard, Opposition Leader Kim Beazley, ADF chief General Peter Cosgrove and maritime commander, Rear Admiral Rowan Moffit, have all backed the Sea Kings, saying age is not necessarily a factor in the crash.
But Rear Admiral Moffit says he is taking a cautious approach and has grounded Australia's six remaining choppers until an inquiry is carried out.
"Until we find out more detail about exactly what occurred and why, we won't fly," he said.
"There isn't any pressing need for us to fly any of the aircraft at the moment, so we won't. We'll wait and see what the investigators have for us as they get into their inquiries."
Confidence
Ahead of the grounding, Mr Howard said the helicopters' age could not be presumed to be a factor.
"There are a lot of Sea King helicopters around the world of an equivalent age," the Prime Minister said.
"There are a lot of airframes that are in use by a lot of the air forces of many nations, not just Australia, which are 20-30 years [old], perhaps in some cases even more old.
"That has not been the experience of other countries - that that is necessarily the cause of a fatality or of an accident."
Mr Beazley, a former defence minister, agreed that the Sea Kings' age did not mean they were too old to be in service.
Mr Beazley said United States B-52 bombers had been in service for 50 years.
"You cannot automatically say that an aircraft that is 30 years old is by virtue of that fact alone now a problem," Mr Beazley told Channel Seven.
"But at the same time now in the minds of the investigators is the possibility that that would be the case."
General Cosgrove also expressed his confidence in the helicopters.
"Of course I've got confidence in the Sea Kings," he said. "They have performed tremendous work and they are maintained by very professional aviation maintenance staff."
HAA defends those who are suffering
The Australian Defence Force lost nine people killed in the Sea King accident on the Indonesian island of Nias on Sat 2 Apr 05.
Two men survived the accident and were evacuated to medical care on HMAS Kanimbla.
The Royal Australia Navy lost Lieutenant Mathew Davy, Lieutenant Paul Kimlan, Lieutenant Jonathan King, Lieutenant Matthew Goodall, Petty Officer Stephen Slattery and Leading Seaman Scott Bennett. The RAAF also lost Squadron Leader Paul McCarthy, Flight Lieutenant Lyn Rowbottom and Sergeant Wendy Jones.
The President of the Helicopter Association of Australasia, (HAA) Rob Rich has reacted angrily to those who have made this terrible event into a political football. On ABC Radio Rob said: “Several politicians and the leader of the Australian Defence Association claimed the cause was due to the age of the Sea King Helicopters”. Pressing the point further to the ABC audience Rob said: “A thirty year old helicopter cannot be compared with a thirty year old car, as the critics are saying. The Sea King is one of seven in our Navy. About 300 are still in service in the world. The machine was recently refurbished. Thus the comparison with an old car is inaccurate. Probably the only original bits on the Sea King are the name plate and cabin frame.”
When asked by the ABC reported why he was taking this stand he replied: “There is a fine line between speculation and apportioning blame before the investigation is completed. Suggestions of pilot error, maintenance error or other organisation failures, such as supervision or fatigue are in very bad taste. This distresses the Next of Kin awaiting the return of the bodies of their loved ones. It also causes distress with all those involved with the helicopter’s operation. I have seen first hand what poor reporting in the media and malicious rumour mongering can do to those left behind in other accidents. We must await the official findings and then say what has to be said (if anything) – this is only fair to all.”
The ABC later broadcast the interview on two Australian networks. The suggestion we protect the NOK from politically motivated finger pointing has been well received if the email and phone calls are any indication.
We must protect our own that are grieving after the loss of their loved ones.
What do you think?
Two men survived the accident and were evacuated to medical care on HMAS Kanimbla.
The Royal Australia Navy lost Lieutenant Mathew Davy, Lieutenant Paul Kimlan, Lieutenant Jonathan King, Lieutenant Matthew Goodall, Petty Officer Stephen Slattery and Leading Seaman Scott Bennett. The RAAF also lost Squadron Leader Paul McCarthy, Flight Lieutenant Lyn Rowbottom and Sergeant Wendy Jones.
The President of the Helicopter Association of Australasia, (HAA) Rob Rich has reacted angrily to those who have made this terrible event into a political football. On ABC Radio Rob said: “Several politicians and the leader of the Australian Defence Association claimed the cause was due to the age of the Sea King Helicopters”. Pressing the point further to the ABC audience Rob said: “A thirty year old helicopter cannot be compared with a thirty year old car, as the critics are saying. The Sea King is one of seven in our Navy. About 300 are still in service in the world. The machine was recently refurbished. Thus the comparison with an old car is inaccurate. Probably the only original bits on the Sea King are the name plate and cabin frame.”
When asked by the ABC reported why he was taking this stand he replied: “There is a fine line between speculation and apportioning blame before the investigation is completed. Suggestions of pilot error, maintenance error or other organisation failures, such as supervision or fatigue are in very bad taste. This distresses the Next of Kin awaiting the return of the bodies of their loved ones. It also causes distress with all those involved with the helicopter’s operation. I have seen first hand what poor reporting in the media and malicious rumour mongering can do to those left behind in other accidents. We must await the official findings and then say what has to be said (if anything) – this is only fair to all.”
The ABC later broadcast the interview on two Australian networks. The suggestion we protect the NOK from politically motivated finger pointing has been well received if the email and phone calls are any indication.
We must protect our own that are grieving after the loss of their loved ones.
What do you think?
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The HAA Rob Rich has it spot on, there is no value in speculation especially from the uninformed and politically motivated. They are selfish and only out for personal gain. We all want answers especially us who are still flying the Sea King!! BUT the correct answers!!! You can always find an eyewitness who saw what you suggest or want to say and any investigator (and it would be good if the press did as well) would not take one report but many before commenting!
The ADA's director Niel James comment in ABC News Online that 'the crew that operated them are quite well trained" is also particularly distasteful, especially to the families who know the hard work and time put in by all the crew and to those of us who have spent years teaching these young pilots and aircrew to a highly professional level equalling the best in the world.
At dawn this morning in the company of my fellow squadron members I had the honour to farewell four good friends on their last flight from Darwin!
They will not be forgotten!
HP
The ADA's director Niel James comment in ABC News Online that 'the crew that operated them are quite well trained" is also particularly distasteful, especially to the families who know the hard work and time put in by all the crew and to those of us who have spent years teaching these young pilots and aircrew to a highly professional level equalling the best in the world.
At dawn this morning in the company of my fellow squadron members I had the honour to farewell four good friends on their last flight from Darwin!
They will not be forgotten!
HP
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As one of many who knew these guys, it's still hard to comprehend what has happened. They were good blokes doing a great job. I just hope the defence network supports the widows and families of those lost. When you lose friends you have served with, it just make it that much harder to bare. I know a few extra beers will be consumed on ANZAC day this year.
RIP
RIP
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Robsrich asks 'What do you think?"
I think it's a terrible tragedy, I'm sad for the good folks who lost their lives and my heart goes out to their families who'll miss them for ever.
I think speculation is a natural reaction which follows every aviation accident, the bigger the accident the more speculation you get. I don't think you'll ever stop it and pilots are as guilty of it as any journalist.
Final point edited.
There may be some force in the point - I make no comment either way - but I don't want to risk this thread about a very sad topic being sidetracked by something which, in comparison, is unimportant.
Heliport
I think it's a terrible tragedy, I'm sad for the good folks who lost their lives and my heart goes out to their families who'll miss them for ever.
I think speculation is a natural reaction which follows every aviation accident, the bigger the accident the more speculation you get. I don't think you'll ever stop it and pilots are as guilty of it as any journalist.
Final point edited.
There may be some force in the point - I make no comment either way - but I don't want to risk this thread about a very sad topic being sidetracked by something which, in comparison, is unimportant.
Heliport
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Bronx.
The bottom line is that Rob Rich is the President of the HAA, and entitled to report and comment under that title.
Get over it. Or run for President.
Lets not side track this Thread, from the topic of this sad accident.
Get over it. Or run for President.
Lets not side track this Thread, from the topic of this sad accident.
PPRuNe Time
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Flight control fault suspected in Sea King crash
An interim report into last month's Sea King helicopter crash has found problems with the flight controls may have been responsible for the disaster.
A team of 13 investigators has spent the last month combing through the wreckage from the crash on the island of Nias in Indonesia.
Nine Australians die and two were injured while they were delivering earthquake aid.
The Navy's Maritime Commander, Rear Admiral Rowan Moffitt, has released initial details of the investigation revealing some evidence of mechanical problems in the flight controls of Sea King Shark-02.
"The team inspected the mechanical flight control run from the cockpit through to the tail rotor gearbox," he told a news conference.
"Two components of the flight control run which are normally connected were found to be detached from one another.
"Several parts of the hardware that normally connect those two items together haven't been located."
Rear Admiral Moffitt said the missing components could have been destroyed or might still be found.
He stressed that the investigation is at a very early stage and the cause of the crash remains unresolved.
A board of inquiry will also be convened to look into wider issues related to the crash.
The Navy's fleet of six ageing Sea Kings will remain grounded.
An interim report into last month's Sea King helicopter crash has found problems with the flight controls may have been responsible for the disaster.
A team of 13 investigators has spent the last month combing through the wreckage from the crash on the island of Nias in Indonesia.
Nine Australians die and two were injured while they were delivering earthquake aid.
The Navy's Maritime Commander, Rear Admiral Rowan Moffitt, has released initial details of the investigation revealing some evidence of mechanical problems in the flight controls of Sea King Shark-02.
"The team inspected the mechanical flight control run from the cockpit through to the tail rotor gearbox," he told a news conference.
"Two components of the flight control run which are normally connected were found to be detached from one another.
"Several parts of the hardware that normally connect those two items together haven't been located."
Rear Admiral Moffitt said the missing components could have been destroyed or might still be found.
He stressed that the investigation is at a very early stage and the cause of the crash remains unresolved.
A board of inquiry will also be convened to look into wider issues related to the crash.
The Navy's fleet of six ageing Sea Kings will remain grounded.
