Swiss heliskiing accident
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Swiss heliskiing accident
Four die in chopper crash in Swiss Alps
March 27, 2005 - 5:14AM
Four people died when a helicopter carrying skiers crashed in the Swiss Alps, police have said.
Bern cantonal police said the pilot and all three passengers aboard the Bell 206 B Jet Ranger 3 died when the aircraft crashed on the Steingletscher glacier at an altitude of 3,170 metres.
Rescue workers found the four victims dead at the scene, police said, without identifying them.
The helicopter, which was ferrying tourists for a day's "heliskiing," had already landed a mountain guide and two other passengers and was on its second run to the otherwise inaccessible glacier, officials said.
March 27, 2005 - 5:14AM
Four people died when a helicopter carrying skiers crashed in the Swiss Alps, police have said.
Bern cantonal police said the pilot and all three passengers aboard the Bell 206 B Jet Ranger 3 died when the aircraft crashed on the Steingletscher glacier at an altitude of 3,170 metres.
Rescue workers found the four victims dead at the scene, police said, without identifying them.
The helicopter, which was ferrying tourists for a day's "heliskiing," had already landed a mountain guide and two other passengers and was on its second run to the otherwise inaccessible glacier, officials said.
Gatvol
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Im glad somebody else made that comment. My thoughts were that a B206 with four, fuel, skis etc, at 10k would only take you to the scene of the accident.
Sad news again strikes.
Sad news again strikes.
The phrase...."What was he thinking?" comes to mind.
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Yep, indeed disastrous. Operating at that altitude with that giant of a vertical fin, and a full load.....brrr. No more comments
It\'s not what was he thinking, may he or she rest in peace...It\'s what was the chain of events leading to that accident
It\'s not what was he thinking, may he or she rest in peace...It\'s what was the chain of events leading to that accident
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Not so fast on casting stones.....
assuming..
1900 lb EW
200 lb pilot
200 lb pass
175 lb pass
150 lb pass
300 lb fuel
80 lb skiis and gear
___________
3005 lb AUW
www.bellhelicopter.com publishes a HOGE weightof 3,000 lb at 10,300 at ISA
....of course, when the facts come out, it may be well over that weight figure and not anywhere near an ISA day, then all you stone-casters are very very correct.
assuming..
1900 lb EW
200 lb pilot
200 lb pass
175 lb pass
150 lb pass
300 lb fuel
80 lb skiis and gear
___________
3005 lb AUW
www.bellhelicopter.com publishes a HOGE weightof 3,000 lb at 10,300 at ISA
....of course, when the facts come out, it may be well over that weight figure and not anywhere near an ISA day, then all you stone-casters are very very correct.
Last edited by 407 Driver; 28th Mar 2005 at 01:55.
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OK 407,
Lets say he is 2820+-, you of all people know that under IDEAL condtions in ye ol mountians the 206 still isnt very forgiving up there, and toss in roaring winds down the glacier , or at the bottom of the Cirque, snow, flat light, pax who tend to fib about weight..... she is gonna be mushy, at 10K...
What do you guys typically load too when you take the 2slowoh6 out up to alt.... load her up and see if you can run her down the runway in Golden!
Oh course the media could have it all wrong and they could be in a lama, a l model or a 407! A helicopter is a helicopter , Right!
RB
Lets say he is 2820+-, you of all people know that under IDEAL condtions in ye ol mountians the 206 still isnt very forgiving up there, and toss in roaring winds down the glacier , or at the bottom of the Cirque, snow, flat light, pax who tend to fib about weight..... she is gonna be mushy, at 10K...
What do you guys typically load too when you take the 2slowoh6 out up to alt.... load her up and see if you can run her down the runway in Golden!
Oh course the media could have it all wrong and they could be in a lama, a l model or a 407! A helicopter is a helicopter , Right!
RB
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Sorry RB, I revised my figures as you were posting.
I'm not saying that he was right wrong or indifferent. I do not know the site, I don't know the conditions, I don't know anything about it.
I'm saying..."what if" .. before casting stones. In this situation in a 206, I would do a complete W&B, and a load calc, and have a very good idea of the site and conditions.
I'm pointing out...given the coreect numbers, it CAN be done.
I'm not saying that he was right wrong or indifferent. I do not know the site, I don't know the conditions, I don't know anything about it.
I'm saying..."what if" .. before casting stones. In this situation in a 206, I would do a complete W&B, and a load calc, and have a very good idea of the site and conditions.
I'm pointing out...given the coreect numbers, it CAN be done.
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I know, just jabbing you a bit. Us young pups lijke to stir the pot from time to time.
On a side note, as I have learned , the hard way (coloring the undys a few times) just beacuse it can be done, desent mean it SHOULD be done! I have learned from experience and few close ones, sites like this one can change mintue to mintue, erring on the safe side when operating close to the limits tends to be wise.
RB
See the yankee div is looking for a few good 407 lads! Got my app in... Mayby I too can work for the red and white empire!
On a side note, as I have learned , the hard way (coloring the undys a few times) just beacuse it can be done, desent mean it SHOULD be done! I have learned from experience and few close ones, sites like this one can change mintue to mintue, erring on the safe side when operating close to the limits tends to be wise.
RB
See the yankee div is looking for a few good 407 lads! Got my app in... Mayby I too can work for the red and white empire!
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Good luck with that application RB, I heard they were crewing up a few 407's. I hope that you do get on. I'll buy you a beer or two....if and when you drop by here.
...and you are very correct, just because the numbers work, there are days and sites that any load is too much !
...and you are very correct, just because the numbers work, there are days and sites that any load is too much !
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...and deciding which days they are, and which sites they are, is why the hi-mountain guys get the big bucks!
As a matter of interest would you use supplementary oxygen at such a height?
As a matter of interest would you use supplementary oxygen at such a height?
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407 Driver,
Thanks, I appreciate the legal requirements but I am just wondering whether any operator felt that the pilot's performance would be significantly enhanced, and therefore risk reduced, by supplying the pilot with supplementary oxygen whilst carrying out take-offs and landings at higher altitudes (for me that is 8000 feet plus).
It is my experience that until you have the opportunity of making the comparison of a colleagues, performance with and without supplementary oxygen you really don't appreciate the difference.
Unfortunately many, perhaps most, high mountain operations are in remote areas and replenishment of oxygen becomes difficult and the cost prohibitive.
What is the view on this from the Canadian Rockies (and elsewhere)?
Thanks, I appreciate the legal requirements but I am just wondering whether any operator felt that the pilot's performance would be significantly enhanced, and therefore risk reduced, by supplying the pilot with supplementary oxygen whilst carrying out take-offs and landings at higher altitudes (for me that is 8000 feet plus).
It is my experience that until you have the opportunity of making the comparison of a colleagues, performance with and without supplementary oxygen you really don't appreciate the difference.
Unfortunately many, perhaps most, high mountain operations are in remote areas and replenishment of oxygen becomes difficult and the cost prohibitive.
What is the view on this from the Canadian Rockies (and elsewhere)?
Now if you happen to be a young fire breathing marathon running studly type like 407 Driver.....who lives at altitude.....the O2 issue has less significance than us dottering old fools whose waist size exceeds both our IQ and age combined....who might jog from bedside to the bog in the mornings....throw in the two pack a day smokers....and oxygen needs for us are might be just a bit different in reality.
For me...lack of air to breathe at 10,000 feet is less a problem than trying to fly with my eyes closed.
For me...lack of air to breathe at 10,000 feet is less a problem than trying to fly with my eyes closed.
Lack of blood maybe....not lack of Oxygen....remember when you had that problem years ago?
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Sasless, the key IS "aclimatize", .... those who spend a lot of time at altitude are more able to function at altitude. A great example are the Sherpas in the Himilaya's. They can do more physical work at their altitudes than any flatlanders can. I'm not about to go and climb Everest, but I do spend a fair amount of time at (Rockies) altitudes.
PR, it certainly helps to have a tiny little brain that doesn't need too much 02 as well
PR, it certainly helps to have a tiny little brain that doesn't need too much 02 as well
Heliskiing was done for many years in Wyoming, Utah, Idaho and Nevada in 206B's at similar and higher altitudes. It can be done safely with proper fuel management, group weight control and sufficient pilot experience.
Pilot + guide + 3 skiers was considered a normal load.
Thankfully, now we have light ships like the 407 and B-2/B-3 Astars. The Jet Ranger days over in the lower 48.
Pilot + guide + 3 skiers was considered a normal load.
Thankfully, now we have light ships like the 407 and B-2/B-3 Astars. The Jet Ranger days over in the lower 48.