What do you cost your company per hour?
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What do you cost your company per hour?
On another forum, I saw this question asked and the answers were widely varied.
If you count up your salary, allowances, benefits (car, phone, health insurance etc), the taxes the company pays for you (superannuation, fringe benefits tax) and everything else, and divide it by your annual flying hours, you get your true cost.
Your company has to recoup this cost for each hour before trying to pay for the fuel, maintenance etc on the aircraft, and then make a profit.
The answers varied from $28 an hour for a basic instructor or charter rookie, to over $1000 an hour for an EMS pilot who flew very seldom. (Although EMS doesn't necessarily have to make a profit, the fewer hours it flies, the more the profit from a fixed-term contract.)
What does your company cough up for you?
If you count up your salary, allowances, benefits (car, phone, health insurance etc), the taxes the company pays for you (superannuation, fringe benefits tax) and everything else, and divide it by your annual flying hours, you get your true cost.
Your company has to recoup this cost for each hour before trying to pay for the fuel, maintenance etc on the aircraft, and then make a profit.
The answers varied from $28 an hour for a basic instructor or charter rookie, to over $1000 an hour for an EMS pilot who flew very seldom. (Although EMS doesn't necessarily have to make a profit, the fewer hours it flies, the more the profit from a fixed-term contract.)
What does your company cough up for you?
AC....lets also look at the other side of the coin too...what does the company make off me in that same hour.
Bell 206....2000 USD per flight hour...average month...60 hours...120,000 USD per month on average.....say 152 USD per hour for me. He has to get by on 1848 USD per hour after paying me and my perks. Heck he pays about the same thing for fuel per hour as he does paying me.
Now somehow....I reckon the Bossfellah is getting his money's worth out of me.
Bell 206....2000 USD per flight hour...average month...60 hours...120,000 USD per month on average.....say 152 USD per hour for me. He has to get by on 1848 USD per hour after paying me and my perks. Heck he pays about the same thing for fuel per hour as he does paying me.
Now somehow....I reckon the Bossfellah is getting his money's worth out of me.
Offshore rates...onshore the rate is 725 USD.
Redwine....We are all whor-s....the only difference is the price and lifestyle we enjoy. I at least admit it openly....show me the money....and earn my affections even if only temporarily. At least whor-s get kissed after being screwed.....not so in this business.
Everyone wanted to criticize....did not see a single one of them advertise their wage....come on guys...your turn. Red Wine...throw out your numbers.
Redwine....We are all whor-s....the only difference is the price and lifestyle we enjoy. I at least admit it openly....show me the money....and earn my affections even if only temporarily. At least whor-s get kissed after being screwed.....not so in this business.
Everyone wanted to criticize....did not see a single one of them advertise their wage....come on guys...your turn. Red Wine...throw out your numbers.
Maybe if you only do charter work, the company will charge a straight per hour rate to the customer, in that case the rate can be as high as 2,000$/Hr for a light turbine and go to as much as 5,000 for a '412 like a/c.
Most of us forget that normal contracts involving helicopters include a fixed fee that will normally cover crew pay, scheduled maintenance, lease cost and insurance.
Some contracts even go as far as including a certain amount of flying per day or per month (as for example in ENG, where TV stations usually fly an hour or so a day to cover their prime time news).
All the rest is gravy for the vendor providing the a/c; with all expenses covered, with the customer paying for its own fuel, even 1,000 $/Hr (and going waaayyy up at contract renewal, I know for a fact) are gravy money for a medium twin.
Especially when you have three such machines on such a contract, churning out almost 300 Hrs per month.
In that case, even a total cost of, say 75Ks a year (including med benefits, 401K match and the employer share of SS/MC) won't make a dent in that revenue.
Most of us forget that normal contracts involving helicopters include a fixed fee that will normally cover crew pay, scheduled maintenance, lease cost and insurance.
Some contracts even go as far as including a certain amount of flying per day or per month (as for example in ENG, where TV stations usually fly an hour or so a day to cover their prime time news).
All the rest is gravy for the vendor providing the a/c; with all expenses covered, with the customer paying for its own fuel, even 1,000 $/Hr (and going waaayyy up at contract renewal, I know for a fact) are gravy money for a medium twin.
Especially when you have three such machines on such a contract, churning out almost 300 Hrs per month.
In that case, even a total cost of, say 75Ks a year (including med benefits, 401K match and the employer share of SS/MC) won't make a dent in that revenue.
Gatvol
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Lets look at it a bit different. How about from the aspect of a part time Tour Toad. Wages, with no Benefits, no IRA, no Health plan.
(Im not complaining as I have my retirement) Say the other day I flew 6 hours, which would be 4 seperate tours. Paywise that comes to about $240. Your math is 240/6=$40/hr not bad to get by on. However its a 12+hour day to get those 6 hours which by my math is 240/12=$20/hr. Many of those days can be streched to the 14 hour max 135 days also. Those are wages above McDonalds but not much to get Pilots out of Mobile homes. It gets worse faster than it gets better. Show up for work and get $100. Flights cancelled for weather, maintenance etc and its $100/12=$8.34/hr. Now your talking Mickee Dees.
I dont need to hear about managements tears on paying these high priced pilots. It may stain the leather chairs in their offices.
As to the Aircraft rates. Most companies are in the mode that they can withstand fly or not for their hourly rate. I know that if they are getting say $1200/for an L3, and they do the numbers properly with the customer, such as flat rate for piece work, they can end up with $2000/$2500/hr for the same aircraft. Again I dont need to see the tears.
And Sasless I dont think your going to find a B206 that goes for $2000/hr. At least upfront.
(Im not complaining as I have my retirement) Say the other day I flew 6 hours, which would be 4 seperate tours. Paywise that comes to about $240. Your math is 240/6=$40/hr not bad to get by on. However its a 12+hour day to get those 6 hours which by my math is 240/12=$20/hr. Many of those days can be streched to the 14 hour max 135 days also. Those are wages above McDonalds but not much to get Pilots out of Mobile homes. It gets worse faster than it gets better. Show up for work and get $100. Flights cancelled for weather, maintenance etc and its $100/12=$8.34/hr. Now your talking Mickee Dees.
I dont need to hear about managements tears on paying these high priced pilots. It may stain the leather chairs in their offices.
As to the Aircraft rates. Most companies are in the mode that they can withstand fly or not for their hourly rate. I know that if they are getting say $1200/for an L3, and they do the numbers properly with the customer, such as flat rate for piece work, they can end up with $2000/$2500/hr for the same aircraft. Again I dont need to see the tears.
And Sasless I dont think your going to find a B206 that goes for $2000/hr. At least upfront.
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"We're paying about $700 US an hour down here in Cape Town"
Put that into perspective here in Oz top Dollar would be $1100 AUD for a jetranger...operators have been know to go as low as $500 hr AUD!!!. Sasless your probably glad you dont work here then.
Put that into perspective here in Oz top Dollar would be $1100 AUD for a jetranger...operators have been know to go as low as $500 hr AUD!!!. Sasless your probably glad you dont work here then.
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Maybe we should ask ourselves how much do helicopter companies cost us.
Especially here in Australia.
Low pay, illeagal practices, high responsibility and no personal life.
How many marriages have failed with the help of the aviation industry.
Then there is the old pilots who think you should do it as tough as they did and on the same pay as they were getting way back when.
Especially here in Australia.
Low pay, illeagal practices, high responsibility and no personal life.
How many marriages have failed with the help of the aviation industry.
Then there is the old pilots who think you should do it as tough as they did and on the same pay as they were getting way back when.
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In my hangar there was a company whith a Citation II, they had a cost of 50.000 US$/month for no flying, and for each fly it was more money...
Compare it to your helicopter size, sometimes the cost isn't very far, and you are a part of that.
Compare it to your helicopter size, sometimes the cost isn't very far, and you are a part of that.
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Belly Tank, I recall when I was in the charter game many years ago, , I guess early 90's and not alot of work around, you could get a B206 out of Sydney for $350 /hr wet. Much the same in Melb.
That wouldn't even meet running costs...
, I guess early 90's and not alot of work around, you could get a B206 out of Sydney for $350 /hr wet. Much the same in Melb.That wouldn't even meet running costs...
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My boss gets almost 800 us an hour (206)with a 3 hour gaurentee per day. Each machine flew between 1200-1600 hrs last year. (I have flown 94.6 since the 1st of March). He pays pretty well, but you fly a lot, so hourly it isnt that great, but its steady, and the checks clear
rb
rb
Last edited by rotorboy; 17th Mar 2005 at 01:25.
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Well, I'm not sure why things are so cheap over there. Here in the GOM the majors get more than $2000/hr for a 206 on an ad hoc basis, less of course for a full-time contract with a substantial monthly fee. An S76 or BH412 is about $6000/hr.
Of that, fuel costs a little over $200/hr, and assuming 500 hrs/year, then my cost would be just over $100/hr. Figure in the cost of my uniforms, sick leave I hope to never use, and a lot of workover in which I don't fly much, and it might get up to $125/hr. As you can see, my employer is being ruined by those excessive labor costs.
Of that, fuel costs a little over $200/hr, and assuming 500 hrs/year, then my cost would be just over $100/hr. Figure in the cost of my uniforms, sick leave I hope to never use, and a lot of workover in which I don't fly much, and it might get up to $125/hr. As you can see, my employer is being ruined by those excessive labor costs.
Gatvol
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GP
You cant be serious that 1. your boss gets $2k/hr for a 206 and 2. you get $100/hr to fly the thing....... If its that good in the gulf why is everyone screaming Union, Strike etc.....
You cant be serious that 1. your boss gets $2k/hr for a 206 and 2. you get $100/hr to fly the thing....... If its that good in the gulf why is everyone screaming Union, Strike etc.....
Bert dear boy,
You must lay off the rum things....it clouds yer thinking. Look at the way we are figuring our pay...it is by the average month and counts flying hours only.
If you throw in duty time...well now...a Red Vest job at Wally World probably pays better.
One could count only the 14 hour duty day....or some would count all the time away from home in that you sleep at work and cannot engage in your favorite choice of recreation. Now if you count those hours.....well...let's not got there.
Just counting the duty hours.....that changes my hours from 60 per month to 196 and that 152 USD number drops considerably.....23.38 USD per hour.....and if you count the non-duty but must stay at work time....13.64 USD per hour....not a vast fortune to made doing this I would suggest.
You must lay off the rum things....it clouds yer thinking. Look at the way we are figuring our pay...it is by the average month and counts flying hours only.
If you throw in duty time...well now...a Red Vest job at Wally World probably pays better.
One could count only the 14 hour duty day....or some would count all the time away from home in that you sleep at work and cannot engage in your favorite choice of recreation. Now if you count those hours.....well...let's not got there.
Just counting the duty hours.....that changes my hours from 60 per month to 196 and that 152 USD number drops considerably.....23.38 USD per hour.....and if you count the non-duty but must stay at work time....13.64 USD per hour....not a vast fortune to made doing this I would suggest.
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$100/hr is a red herring. We don't get paid by the flight hour, or by the hour for the time we're signed in to work. The amount the company gets is correct, but the amount the pilot is paid per hour of flight time varies widely, because the amount of flight time varies so much.
If I calculate my pay at an hourly rate for duty time, it goes to about $27/hr. That doesn't take into consideration the time or money spent driving to and from God-forsaken holes all over south Louisiana, on my own time and dime. And that munificent salary is for an almost-topped out IFR PIC with well over 20 years with the same company. By the time I'm topped out I'll be making about $0.25/hr more, if that.
The whole concept of "What do you cost your employer per hour" makes no sense at all.
If I calculate my pay at an hourly rate for duty time, it goes to about $27/hr. That doesn't take into consideration the time or money spent driving to and from God-forsaken holes all over south Louisiana, on my own time and dime. And that munificent salary is for an almost-topped out IFR PIC with well over 20 years with the same company. By the time I'm topped out I'll be making about $0.25/hr more, if that.
The whole concept of "What do you cost your employer per hour" makes no sense at all.
Thread Starter
How simple do you need it?
Total all-inclusive remuneration last year, divided by the total hours you flew last year. You could even toss in the cost of recurrent training at FSI each year, just to make it interesting.
Even a hellyklopper pilet can work that one out...
Total all-inclusive remuneration last year, divided by the total hours you flew last year. You could even toss in the cost of recurrent training at FSI each year, just to make it interesting.
Even a hellyklopper pilet can work that one out...
What training at FSI? You think offshore oil operators spend that kind of money on training? Unless the oil company requires it....it ain't gonna happen. Now some operators use their own instructors and merely rent the Sim time....no third party review of their procedures and performance that way.
Gatvol
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Sasless.......Love da Rum in da Islands @$4/liter.
Anyway I do look at things differently. If Im going to spend a day at work I want to get paid for a day, not just the hours in the seat. You see if I have to go to work, I cannot do anything else, therefore my day is ruined, I might as well be flying. So if you calculate things on per hours in the seat, its a lot. If you calculate it by time spent on the job site, its peanuts.
I could be doing something else making money.........And life is all about money...
Much easier to come to work, fly an hour or two, then go home. (Unless the job calls for more flying) Makes everyone feel richer......
Anyway I do look at things differently. If Im going to spend a day at work I want to get paid for a day, not just the hours in the seat. You see if I have to go to work, I cannot do anything else, therefore my day is ruined, I might as well be flying. So if you calculate things on per hours in the seat, its a lot. If you calculate it by time spent on the job site, its peanuts.
I could be doing something else making money.........And life is all about money...
Much easier to come to work, fly an hour or two, then go home. (Unless the job calls for more flying) Makes everyone feel richer......