Chinook & other tandem rotors discussions
albatross, photo is from a thread on the 160th SOAR on militaryphotos.net
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...ighlight=160th
There is a some great footage of the SF guys driving an inflatable into the back of it, while they hover in water. Its on a video link posted there.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...ighlight=160th
There is a some great footage of the SF guys driving an inflatable into the back of it, while they hover in water. Its on a video link posted there.
Best we ever did was pull water skiers at Lake Tolocco....smack dab in front of the Base Commander who was not amused. Very short, succinct briefing by the Multi-engine Branch commander (a full Colonel) who was even less amused. Hand Salute...about turn...back to work sitting a lot lower in the seat.
Pretty darned good camo that....even Bloggs looks fuzzy!
I just dig the shiny white aiming points on the flight suit....that would come in real handy in an E&E situation! I guess you stop...call a time out and then start de-rigging yer pickle suit for the neo-tactical look.
Pull up a sand-bag, swing the lantern...
The drainpipes were the ejection chute for the M134 (dodgy arms-market purchase; GE man spent some time at the FOB helping to get them working). The det's 5 RAF Regiment gunners became the port-side operators for all ops after these were fitted, the other position shown here being manned by the No.2 crewman.
After the first night's tasking it was abundantly clear to all concerned that the IRR desert cam paint glowed in the dark. Our excellent JNCO engineers were given the task of nipping down to the local souk and obtaining all the dark paint they could get their hands on. I can't remember exactly how much they found, but it wasn't enough for a full repaint even when the stuff was fully thinned-down. Hence the stripe effect. While they were painting ZA712 'R' one of the lads kicked the paint bucket while they were doing the cabin roof - that aircraft ended up with a mixed pattern with WW2-style broad stripes as well as the small dashes.
SASless - looking at the scenery, I'd say this shot was taken post-GW1 during the operation to assist the Kurds in Turkey/ NW Iraq. You can rest assured that Mk14s with kneepads were never worn on Op Jena tasking.
As an afternote, one of these aircraft was still in this paintscheme several months later when it went over to do its share of tasking in N Ireland. The cam was surprisingly effective there too, although the dept of the MoD then carrying out the Wessex paintscheme trials (Light Dove Grey Walters seemed particularly unpopular with the customers...) were deeply unimpressed. It seems local initiative on the part of our Gulf groundcrew was seen to undermine their all-embracing remit to decide UK Armed Forces paint jobs. Still, these aircraft weren't the first to use non-approved schemes - anyone from the AAC care to recount the 'thinking' behind the change from black/green to light grey/grass green? Scientific selection didn't exactly come into it...
The drainpipes were the ejection chute for the M134 (dodgy arms-market purchase; GE man spent some time at the FOB helping to get them working). The det's 5 RAF Regiment gunners became the port-side operators for all ops after these were fitted, the other position shown here being manned by the No.2 crewman.
After the first night's tasking it was abundantly clear to all concerned that the IRR desert cam paint glowed in the dark. Our excellent JNCO engineers were given the task of nipping down to the local souk and obtaining all the dark paint they could get their hands on. I can't remember exactly how much they found, but it wasn't enough for a full repaint even when the stuff was fully thinned-down. Hence the stripe effect. While they were painting ZA712 'R' one of the lads kicked the paint bucket while they were doing the cabin roof - that aircraft ended up with a mixed pattern with WW2-style broad stripes as well as the small dashes.
SASless - looking at the scenery, I'd say this shot was taken post-GW1 during the operation to assist the Kurds in Turkey/ NW Iraq. You can rest assured that Mk14s with kneepads were never worn on Op Jena tasking.
As an afternote, one of these aircraft was still in this paintscheme several months later when it went over to do its share of tasking in N Ireland. The cam was surprisingly effective there too, although the dept of the MoD then carrying out the Wessex paintscheme trials (Light Dove Grey Walters seemed particularly unpopular with the customers...) were deeply unimpressed. It seems local initiative on the part of our Gulf groundcrew was seen to undermine their all-embracing remit to decide UK Armed Forces paint jobs. Still, these aircraft weren't the first to use non-approved schemes - anyone from the AAC care to recount the 'thinking' behind the change from black/green to light grey/grass green? Scientific selection didn't exactly come into it...
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AAC paint schemes
Sorry Thud and Blunder, but the selection of paint schemes on Army aircraft was very scientific!
The RAF boffins came over to Hildesheim, Germany in 1983/4 with lots of Motorola cameras and tape recorders and a couple of Pumas. We painted some aircraft (lynx & gazelle) in the light grey and green, and left others in the black/dark green. They all had camera mount fitted to the skids and the recorder inside. The aircraft then flew pre-selected routes and heights against each other until either was seen. The tapes would then be played back to confirm what gave the opposition away! After 2 weeks fun and games the light grey/light green was the best all-round in the low level environment. The black /dark green was great against the tree line, but most were detected when breaking the skyline or crossing light coloured fields.
PS. The Pumas would have been best painted light grey for the altitudes they were flying at! Only joking, they did a great job and we all missed each other!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The RAF boffins came over to Hildesheim, Germany in 1983/4 with lots of Motorola cameras and tape recorders and a couple of Pumas. We painted some aircraft (lynx & gazelle) in the light grey and green, and left others in the black/dark green. They all had camera mount fitted to the skids and the recorder inside. The aircraft then flew pre-selected routes and heights against each other until either was seen. The tapes would then be played back to confirm what gave the opposition away! After 2 weeks fun and games the light grey/light green was the best all-round in the low level environment. The black /dark green was great against the tree line, but most were detected when breaking the skyline or crossing light coloured fields.
PS. The Pumas would have been best painted light grey for the altitudes they were flying at! Only joking, they did a great job and we all missed each other!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hi Bob,
Good to hear from someone directly involved. The trial, as you say, involved a choice between the 2 schemes. It was the way the new scheme was devised which wasn't exactly scientific; STANOC (which IIRC stood for Surveillance, Target Acquisition, Night Observation and Countersurveillance) suggested a blend of green tones very similar to what adorns the Harrier and Chinook fleet these days. Similar trials using the RAF's route-recce Gazelle (used for several years by 7 and 18 Sqns) wearing that scheme showed it to be a better all round cam cover than the stripes. Not of course that the RAF would ever stoop so low as to blame all low-flying complaints about green Chicken-Legs on the AAC...
Word on the street when I taught at Wallop in the mid-80s was that the Brigadier wanted grey and green to match the new urban-centric doctrine, but it had to be different from the Crab colours!
Good to hear from someone directly involved. The trial, as you say, involved a choice between the 2 schemes. It was the way the new scheme was devised which wasn't exactly scientific; STANOC (which IIRC stood for Surveillance, Target Acquisition, Night Observation and Countersurveillance) suggested a blend of green tones very similar to what adorns the Harrier and Chinook fleet these days. Similar trials using the RAF's route-recce Gazelle (used for several years by 7 and 18 Sqns) wearing that scheme showed it to be a better all round cam cover than the stripes. Not of course that the RAF would ever stoop so low as to blame all low-flying complaints about green Chicken-Legs on the AAC...
Word on the street when I taught at Wallop in the mid-80s was that the Brigadier wanted grey and green to match the new urban-centric doctrine, but it had to be different from the Crab colours!
Meanist looking Chook you ever seen
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Essentially, the tandem design is nearly immune to wind direction. At light weight, there is so much power that it's easy to take care of a downwind approach and any performance aspects it may have.
And the rotor brake is extremely powerful.
Must have been interesting for the crew - lot of wind when the ramp went down, and I don't imagine the landing was too much rear wheels first.
And the rotor brake is extremely powerful.
Must have been interesting for the crew - lot of wind when the ramp went down, and I don't imagine the landing was too much rear wheels first.
Essentially, the tandem design is nearly immune to wind direction.
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Yaw control is achieved through differential cyclic. Pedal input is as for any helo but the control mixing box then causes a lateral cyclic input to the left on one rotorhead and to the right on the other.
Wind direction is rarely a big deal for the Chinny because it mostly has loads of spare power and doesn't have the wind direction issues associated with tail rotor configurations. The only time it's a big deal is when the wind is really strong or the cab doesn't have much power in hand due to weight or density altitude.
Wind direction is rarely a big deal for the Chinny because it mostly has loads of spare power and doesn't have the wind direction issues associated with tail rotor configurations. The only time it's a big deal is when the wind is really strong or the cab doesn't have much power in hand due to weight or density altitude.
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Thanks to Wokkaman for these pics -
And last, but not least .........
and a video ..... Chinook in Afghanistan
And last, but not least .........
and a video ..... Chinook in Afghanistan
Great Photos!
Does an old Chinook pilot's heart proud to see them still out there doing their thing.
Does an old Chinook pilot's heart proud to see them still out there doing their thing.