ATPL(H) or CPL(H) ?

[FlightOops]

JAA ATPL(H) or CPL(H)

Nearing the end of Module 1 of a well respected distance learning ATPL(H) theory course, I have now discovered that the JAA CPL(H) exams / course are available !!

Having spoken to a (different) provider of the CPL(H) course, it would appear that this option is better for me (no plans to go to the North Sea in the near future).

The question is this:- Before I switch from an ATPL(H) course to a CPL(H) (and potentially incur a financial penalty for doing so), are there any reasons for NOT switching that I have failed to realise ?

Please bear in mind I have approx. 200 hours and expect to spend the next 36 months working for my current employer and obtaining my FI ticket along the way - i.e. not achieving my IR before the ATPL theory passes (optimistic outlook !!) expire ?

Thank you in advance fellow PPruners !!

[helicopter-redeye]

As long as you have not paid for module 2, and if my reading of LASORS is correct, then there is no reason not to.

The financial calculation will also depend on if your module 1 papers and passes have been in the areas NOT covered by the CPLH only (ie you did the work for the bits you are now going to postpone).

[FlightOops]

Thanks

Redeye,

Module 2 has not yet been paid for, so shouldn't be a problem.

My greatest concern is whether I'm limiting my opportunities by 'only' getting the CPL(H).

My understanding is that I'm only limiting my opportunities if I was intending to do an IR within the next 36 months and go to the North Sea.

For a 'pure' CL(H) with an FI ticket, a JAA CPL(H) is sufficient - naturally a reduction of 5 exams and associated reduction in learning is a tempting carrot to dangle !!

[helicopter-redeye]

If I had not paid for mod 2 and be way into it, I would go the shorter route. Even having all the exams, the IR(H) is penal in cost and most of the low time work is around VFR activities/ single pilot.

Until September, most ground schools were only advertising ATPL(H) courses so this was really the only way.

As I have paid for the goods, almost finished and have a good relationship with an existing school/ instructors it is too late for me to swap, especially as the location of the training provider would just be a short walk as opposed to a long drive to the South.

Ho hum, timing is everything..

h-r

[organ donor]

Flight oops,

If you intend to get your IR within 36 months then do the ATPL exams, as they cover you for the IR. If not, then just do the CPL's, as after a time period (36months?)they expire anyway, so you will have to do the IR writtens again. If you do the ATPL exams, the CAA will only issue with a CPL licence anyway, which will be upraded after you met all the requirements of the ATPL (IR, 350hr multicrew, 1000odd hours TT).
Seems you should save yourself the extra effort now, get the CPL, and sometime down the line study for the IR. In my opinion, unless you get north sea type work, its pointless getting an ATPL anyway, as the only difference between a CPL and an ATPL is that you can fly multicrew.

OD

[Camp Freddie]

organ donor,

ATP doesnt allow you to fly multicrew, it allows you fly as P1 multicrew, which wouldnt be something you would have to worry about for a while if you went new to the north sea (if they ever get round to hiring again)

regards

CF

[FlightOops]

CPL(H) Course

A big thank you for all your replies.

I was speaking to Atlantic Flight Training in Coventry who offer the CPL(H).

My initial contact with them has been extremely encouraging - a very helpful bunch who seem prepared to 'go the extra mile'.

[145kts]

"Mmmmmm......" Raspberry roulard...

[DBChopper]

FlightOops,

Well that saves me starting a thread! I'm about to start studying and was in the same quandary as you. I'm likely to go the CPL(H) ground study route now, as I cannot see any benefit in the additional ATPL subjects for a prospective CPL(H) / FI.

The only problem is, I know nothing of GTS or Dragon Helicopters. Does anybody have any first-hand knowledge or experience of these companies, before I part with dosh? Please PM me if you'd rather keep any comments from the forum.

Thanks (and good luck, FlightOops).

DBChopper

[rhmaddever]

CPL (H) or ATPL (H) ???

Im looking to the future a bit to when I hope to do my CPL exams, I understand that the ATPL gives you less restrictions and im only gonna do these exams once (i hope!)

So the question is... How much harder are the ATPL exams compaired to the CPL exams?

Thanks



RHM

(Based in Uk, refering to modular route, or home study)

[TheFlyingSquirrel]

you're only talking 3 extra subjects - you get 7 years to ' activate ' your ATPL by getting the multicrew hours required from the date of your last exam pass. Also, you will need an IR which you get 3 years to complete from your last exam pass ! This is a bastard and totally unfair. If you fail to get your IR in the 36 months, then yep, you have to do all your CPL/IR exams again. Just do the CPL exams - if you're ever at a stage to obtain your ATP then do the extra 3 then. All the answers are in LASORS 2005. Buy an invaluable copy from the HMSO for £12 or go to the CAA website and check it all out there. All the US guys will be laughing their heads off reading this thinking " what a bunch of ******* !! "

[One of these days]

Ouch!

I'm just studying for my ATPL(H) now, I realised that I needed to get an IR in 3 years but didn't realise that if I failed I would have to do the theory again! What are the chances of getting an IR through a company? That is most probably a "how long is a piece of string" question, but I thought if I didn't get the IR then I would be downgraded to a CPL(H) and not have to do the theory again.

I was actually recommended to do the ATPL(H) instead by someone in the industry, but is it really worth trying to get the ATPL(H) knowing that if you don't succeed you'll have to re-sit everything, isn't it better to get the CPL(H) theory then upgrade to ATPL(H) later on after the IR?

I don't fancy having to do all the exams again, let alone pay for them...again!

OOTD

[helicopter-redeye]

I thought if I didn't get the IR then I would be downgraded to a CPL(H)

Ackshirley, one is never 'upgraded' in the first place because an ATPL(H) in new money is only 'frozen' once the IR is completed, hence you "just" have a CPL(H) pending the IR(H) and the requisite extras (multi crew time, CRM, etc).

you'll have to re-sit everything

Not everything, just a few of the easier papers.

I recall most of the ground schools have been recommending taking the ATPL for some years. The price differential for the training with CPL is small (sometimes negative - i.e. CPL(H) training costs more) but the exam costs are slightly higher with ATPL. All a question of who takes the profit.

h-r

[TheFlyingSquirrel]

IR exams....

Here are the IR exam requirements - if you let the 36 months pass, you'll have to take these again - no joking - it's all in LASORS ! The only way you can get out of it cheaply is to do a plank single IR, thus validating your exams permanently. You can then do your heli IR when you can afford it at a later date. This is the lesser of two evils i'm afraid.

Air Law
Ops
AGK
Perfromance&Planning
HP
Met
Gen Nav
IFR comms

TFS

[kissmysquirrel]

Have to agree with Redeye here.
The IR subjects can be taken if your 3 years runs out. It's seven exams and structured slightly more towards IR stuff. I'm in the middle of them right now having let my CPL sit on the shelf for 3 years without getting the IR. Not a big deal really. More of an inconvenience than anything else. It's good to refresh the old grey stuff. The ATPL is a harder option but do you really require an ATPL? Unless you do the multi engine/IR/MCC etc you'll only really need the privileges of the CPL anyway.

[TheFlyingSquirrel]

I am staggered at the amount of people who just don't know about the time limits on examination passes. The flying schools, the CAA and the ground schools just do not tell you about it early enough on, probably as they all just want your cash and couldn't care less anyway. So, it's all in LASORS, like everything else, but it's an important issue and I feel the information should be forced fed to you when making an exam application at Gatwick.

TFS.

[One of these days]

Sorry rhmaddever, not trying to railroad your post.

Cheers guys for all of your info. I knew about the time limits on the exams, but I didn't realise that one would have to re-take some subjects if the IR wasn't achieved

Well, it's too late now, so I'll continue with the ATPL's then possibly do an IR(A), I've got some FW time behind me which should save something...most probably not my sanity!

OOTD

[One of these days]

Ahhh...Le Jacket,

That would be becase of the tight people I drink with!

OOTD....still waiting for that beer...

P.S. I've got the gloves to match!