Sikorsky S-92: From Design to Operations
Beaut
How did you guys miss this one?
Type: Incident
Mfg: Sikorsky Model: S92A Serial No.: 920010 Reg No.: C-GSCH
Operator: Cougar Helicopters Date: 7/25/2006
Damage Est: None Country: Canada
State: NF City: Offshore, St. John's
Description: A/C was 75 nm offshore of St. John's enroute to Hibernia platform when the INPUT CHIP 2 light
illuminated. Eng #2 to idle, descended to 500', returned to St. John's, and called ATC. 5 min. later
the INPUT CHIP 1 light also illuminated and crew declared a "PAN" condition. Running landing at St.
John's rwy 02 and shut A/C down on runway. Chip plugs in main xmsn contaminated.
Occupants and/or Injured Ground Personnel:
Function: Injury: Remarks:
Pilot None
Copilot None
Flt Crew None
Pax None 16 pax
The Sultan
Type: Incident
Mfg: Sikorsky Model: S92A Serial No.: 920010 Reg No.: C-GSCH
Operator: Cougar Helicopters Date: 7/25/2006
Damage Est: None Country: Canada
State: NF City: Offshore, St. John's
Description: A/C was 75 nm offshore of St. John's enroute to Hibernia platform when the INPUT CHIP 2 light
illuminated. Eng #2 to idle, descended to 500', returned to St. John's, and called ATC. 5 min. later
the INPUT CHIP 1 light also illuminated and crew declared a "PAN" condition. Running landing at St.
John's rwy 02 and shut A/C down on runway. Chip plugs in main xmsn contaminated.
Occupants and/or Injured Ground Personnel:
Function: Injury: Remarks:
Pilot None
Copilot None
Flt Crew None
Pax None 16 pax
The Sultan
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S-92 vs EC225
The onging debate over the relative merits of the two "new" helicopters has been entertaining! However, now we have examples of both here in Aberdeen it is interesting (from an ATC point of view) to see that we have been informed of "special" procedures required by the S-92...
Because of noise issues (with a supposedly modern helicopter!) the S-92 will only depart at reduced power settings requiring a mega amount of runway (well 800m or so) and thereby slowing down the overall movement rate (well it would if we ever see more than one of them based here
)
They will also not operate over land at more than 120kts - thats progress over a 61?? Hope the 92 has good wing mirrors for all those Mk2 Super Pumas and 225's overtaking! For IFR arrivals which would I prefer? Has to be the one that will do 140kts+ down the ILS
- and that won't be the Sikorsky product!
Summing up, 30/40 years of advance on the S-61 has given us a machine that in the (Aberdeen) Airport ATC environment is no faster, requires far more runway for take-off and appears to be no quieter. C'est la vie
The Truth, The Whole Truth, and Nothing But The Truth
Because of noise issues (with a supposedly modern helicopter!) the S-92 will only depart at reduced power settings requiring a mega amount of runway (well 800m or so) and thereby slowing down the overall movement rate (well it would if we ever see more than one of them based here
)They will also not operate over land at more than 120kts - thats progress over a 61?? Hope the 92 has good wing mirrors for all those Mk2 Super Pumas and 225's overtaking! For IFR arrivals which would I prefer? Has to be the one that will do 140kts+ down the ILS
- and that won't be the Sikorsky product!Summing up, 30/40 years of advance on the S-61 has given us a machine that in the (Aberdeen) Airport ATC environment is no faster, requires far more runway for take-off and appears to be no quieter. C'est la vie
The Truth, The Whole Truth, and Nothing But The Truth
"Where are these detectors located ? , on the input module ?."
Yes, there is one per input module, they are in the scavenged oil side.
Yes, there is one per input module, they are in the scavenged oil side.
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212 Man
Did that require a quick flurry in the RFM (ooh missus!) or was the CC good enough?
On a serious note... How is the RFM? As good as the C+'s (in my humble estimation; the best RFM yet written)?
Doc
On a serious note... How is the RFM? As good as the C+'s (in my humble estimation; the best RFM yet written)?
Doc
I heard the Aberdeen 92 flying today. ATC advised other traffic that it would be slowing to 120 overland for noise reasons so TheTruth's comment seems to be true.
I wonder where this is coming from? Could it be that there is some limitation imposed by its noise certificate? I would have thought that the noise wouldn't change that much between 120 and 140 or so - and at 140 you are past sooner. Anyone have any info?
HC
I wonder where this is coming from? Could it be that there is some limitation imposed by its noise certificate? I would have thought that the noise wouldn't change that much between 120 and 140 or so - and at 140 you are past sooner. Anyone have any info?
HC
HC,
The EPN db levels quoted in the RFM (yes DOC; I did have to look!) are:
94.5 Take Off
97.5 Approach
97.2 Flyover
DOC,
RFM part 2 is very good, and could almost be used as the pilot training manual, Part 1 less so. ECF have gone to great lengths to make the 155 and 225 emergency procedures, in their RFMs, usable as a crew document for use in the air (ok operators may produce their own checklists, but the RFM COULD be used as is quite happily). The 92 RFM EOPs Section most certainly could not be used in the air.
The EPN db levels quoted in the RFM (yes DOC; I did have to look!) are:
94.5 Take Off
97.5 Approach
97.2 Flyover
DOC,
RFM part 2 is very good, and could almost be used as the pilot training manual, Part 1 less so. ECF have gone to great lengths to make the 155 and 225 emergency procedures, in their RFMs, usable as a crew document for use in the air (ok operators may produce their own checklists, but the RFM COULD be used as is quite happily). The 92 RFM EOPs Section most certainly could not be used in the air.
S-92 Main and Tail rotor Tip Speeds
Main and Tail Rotor Tip speeds
The S-92 rotor speed increased from 100% (258 rpm) to 105% (271 rpm) over the period of the its development to accommodate for increases in both empty and maximum gross weights. At the same time the main rotor diameter was increased from 53.66 feet to 56.33 feet. These combined increases in rotor diameter and rotor speed have resulted in a corresponding increase in main and tail rotor tips speeds. The S-92 in its presently has a design tip speed in excess of what is recommended as a maximum in R. Prouty’s text Helicopter Performance Stability and Control due to potential noise problems. At –3 degrees Celsius and 165 knots the S-92 main rotor advancing tip speed will be at exactly 1.0 mach. This would require that the S-92 be operated at a reduced speed during winter operations in noise sensitive areas. 140 KIAS may put the S-92's rotor tip speeds in the .95 mach or greater region. This could potentially creat noise issues around and below the helicopter in flight.
The S-92 rotor speed increased from 100% (258 rpm) to 105% (271 rpm) over the period of the its development to accommodate for increases in both empty and maximum gross weights. At the same time the main rotor diameter was increased from 53.66 feet to 56.33 feet. These combined increases in rotor diameter and rotor speed have resulted in a corresponding increase in main and tail rotor tips speeds. The S-92 in its presently has a design tip speed in excess of what is recommended as a maximum in R. Prouty’s text Helicopter Performance Stability and Control due to potential noise problems. At –3 degrees Celsius and 165 knots the S-92 main rotor advancing tip speed will be at exactly 1.0 mach. This would require that the S-92 be operated at a reduced speed during winter operations in noise sensitive areas. 140 KIAS may put the S-92's rotor tip speeds in the .95 mach or greater region. This could potentially creat noise issues around and below the helicopter in flight.
Yes it would
S-92 Fathawk
The S-92 was initially conceived as an extension of the Blackhawk line. As such, the dynamic components were designed to be back fitted on to improved versions of the Blackhawk. This was, in principle, a sound plan until the empty and all up weights of the S-92 grew to the point where adjustments to the basic rotor designs were required. The S-92 is still a fine aircraft. It is just a like weak in the growth department.
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Originally Posted by The Sultan
How did you guys miss this one?
I/C
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Aser,
I posted earlier in this thread that I knew there were growth plans once upon a time to add a 5th blade when the MGW grew above about 32,000 lbs. That might still be true. I do know that the rotor lives with the 4 bladed head are very long (unlimited in most cases) so there is no reason why the rotor needs any changes now.
The transmission AD is undoubtedly due to a casting problem that was discovered by the Sikorsky testers, who then told the FAA to be sure that the internal Sikorsky service bulletin was adhered to. I would bet the parts are free to all customers, as the warranty is surely in effect for all aircraft.
I posted earlier in this thread that I knew there were growth plans once upon a time to add a 5th blade when the MGW grew above about 32,000 lbs. That might still be true. I do know that the rotor lives with the 4 bladed head are very long (unlimited in most cases) so there is no reason why the rotor needs any changes now.
The transmission AD is undoubtedly due to a casting problem that was discovered by the Sikorsky testers, who then told the FAA to be sure that the internal Sikorsky service bulletin was adhered to. I would bet the parts are free to all customers, as the warranty is surely in effect for all aircraft.
Re noise, there are noise abatement procedures in place for the S92 in Bergen after some local complaints. We decided to fly neighbourly in Aberdeen in advance, hence 120 kt in the pattern below 2000 feet. Shame we can't persuade the next door company to stop flying their 214ST - now that IS noisy !!
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I remember as a young lad, Bell bought the 214ST to Redhill to demo it to Bristows (the real one) in competition with the 332L. It was a lovely summers day in Horley high street, six miles south of the airfield and I heard the 'beast' come out of the circuit and head south towards us along the London to Brighton railway line. All the little old blue rinse ladies of Horley thought the world was coming to an end and four horseman had a new mode of transport. It was a wonderful noise to me, but then I used to nip out of the flightdeck on turnarounds to watch the most beautiful aeroplane ever to enter the skies leave Heathrow on a vast cloud of paraffine fumes shimmering off four Olympus engines and the local starlings falling out of the sky with the waves of noise.
TOD
TOD
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Thridle Op Des
I am surprised that you remember that far back... Are you sure that wasn't a pterodactyl flapping across the Horley skyline!
It is odd that an unbearably loud, unsociable noise to some, is the stuff of wet dreams to the rest of us! I'm sure there are more than a couple of old 212 hands, who have strived to attain just the right AOB/ROD/Pitch ATT/Speed combination, in order to create the ultimate blade slap. Especially returning from that late night medivac - it's only fair; if you're up at that ungodly time... Everyone else should be too!
Doc
It is odd that an unbearably loud, unsociable noise to some, is the stuff of wet dreams to the rest of us! I'm sure there are more than a couple of old 212 hands, who have strived to attain just the right AOB/ROD/Pitch ATT/Speed combination, in order to create the ultimate blade slap. Especially returning from that late night medivac - it's only fair; if you're up at that ungodly time... Everyone else should be too!
Doc