R22 Corner
Cool as a moosp
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float test
It looks like you have an old check list. The ammendment is dated 23 Feb 2004 and requires you to select the governor on in the Before Starting Engine checklist. It really means "check that it is on" as nowhere in the start up or Shutdown Procedure does it tell you to turn it off.
Many Robbo pilots do not agree with this proceedure for a variety of reasons, but if it is in the POH you should teach it that way. Just be very careful that the rpm does not creep up to 80% on a trainee when he is not looking.
It looks like you have an old check list. The ammendment is dated 23 Feb 2004 and requires you to select the governor on in the Before Starting Engine checklist. It really means "check that it is on" as nowhere in the start up or Shutdown Procedure does it tell you to turn it off.
Many Robbo pilots do not agree with this proceedure for a variety of reasons, but if it is in the POH you should teach it that way. Just be very careful that the rpm does not creep up to 80% on a trainee when he is not looking.
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"check that it is on" as nowhere in the start up or Shutdown Procedure does it tell you to turn it off.
H.
Cool as a moosp
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Maybe I have missed out on an ammendment at some stage then. Line three of my "Daily or Pre flight checks" reads "Warning light test switch ....... Push to test." Dated 13th Oct 2000. Has there been an update to that?
The key word is "Daily or Pre-flight checks" - I think that may be the walk-around checks, where you open the cowl and press all the test buttons. Doesn't look like a check which is done when you're strapped in doing the pre-start stuff.
As part of a Check-A (UK specific walkaround which must be done if the a/c is to be flown Public Transport) I also check the rotor brake, RPM and governor lights.
I seem to recall that mention when I talked to people after my overspeed that Robinson wanted the governor on below 80% to check the governor function across thw whole range. I tend also to that, as part of the Low RPM horn check, the governor returns RPM from below 97% to normal operating.
As part of a Check-A (UK specific walkaround which must be done if the a/c is to be flown Public Transport) I also check the rotor brake, RPM and governor lights.
I seem to recall that mention when I talked to people after my overspeed that Robinson wanted the governor on below 80% to check the governor function across thw whole range. I tend also to that, as part of the Low RPM horn check, the governor returns RPM from below 97% to normal operating.
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RotorSwede
after reading your post again i cant work out what yellow area your talking about as im sure the engines yellow area is at the bottom for tail rotor resonance or is it for the squirel fan??, at the top isnt it just green surounded in red?
it sounds like you ended up engaging the clutch at over 104% rpm to get it "down into the green"
the older govenors wont coltol the overspeed as much as the new ones (you had to roll them back if your close to being in an auto eg, hard flare or steep decent) which is the same as the rotor not being engaged. so it was probably holding it up there which is why you couldnt roll it off verry easy.
it sounds like you ended up engaging the clutch at over 104% rpm to get it "down into the green"
the older govenors wont coltol the overspeed as much as the new ones (you had to roll them back if your close to being in an auto eg, hard flare or steep decent) which is the same as the rotor not being engaged. so it was probably holding it up there which is why you couldnt roll it off verry easy.
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H300 to R22
I will be doing my SFAR73 in the 22 shortly, and I have never even been tempted to crawl in and sit in one before! What should I be watching out for as it will be my first teeter machine ? Anyone made a silmilar transition and found any major problems or difficulties in handling ? ( H - can I have a couple of days before being banished to R22 corner ! ) thanks ! I believe FBO's machines are Betas.
TFS
TFS
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never been tempted? I'm just now working on adding a rotorwing rating to my fixed-wing ppl and have five hours in the 22. Absolutely love every minute of it! I have no other helicopter experience to compare it to but it took me the full five hours to get the knack to hovering in it. It seems very unstable and requires constant working of the cyclic.
I'm confident that you'll enjoy it as much as I do! Have fun!
I'm confident that you'll enjoy it as much as I do! Have fun!
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Have a blast
If you're like most folks stepping out of a 300 into an R22, you'll be a bit vexed by hovering. Combine very light & sensitive controls, the delayed airframe response inherent in a teetering rotor system, and the overall wafer-thin construction of the R22 - a pilot new to the aircraft will saw the cyclic back and forth somewhat in an effort to hold the aircraft still. You'll get over it pretty quickly. Getting used to holding the cyclic from the bottom takes only a little longer.
You'll also notice that the tail rotor has a much sharper effect on the aircraft. The pedals are very light, and the T/R is very strong.
Finally, on most R22s, the collective has quite a lot of inherent friction which may initially throw you off a bit, not to mention that you sit a lot closer to the ground in the R22. In a normal hover in the Robbie, your head is about the same height as in the 300 when you are on the ground.
So it's easy to spot folks on their first transition flight - they're the ones swaying fore and aft, hovering 7' off of the ground and twitching the tail like an angry cat! (...and with a CFI laughing in the other seat...)
You'll also notice that the tail rotor has a much sharper effect on the aircraft. The pedals are very light, and the T/R is very strong.
Finally, on most R22s, the collective has quite a lot of inherent friction which may initially throw you off a bit, not to mention that you sit a lot closer to the ground in the R22. In a normal hover in the Robbie, your head is about the same height as in the 300 when you are on the ground.
So it's easy to spot folks on their first transition flight - they're the ones swaying fore and aft, hovering 7' off of the ground and twitching the tail like an angry cat! (...and with a CFI laughing in the other seat...)
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There are already some good replies here... My notes:
- the cyclic moves up and down, in addition to the front-back/left-right motion that you're used to. The up and down thing can add to the initial "confusion" about the cyclic, even though that motion does nothing at all except jerk the CFI's grip out of his hand if you yank yours down sharply
. I only mention this because I heard a guy that did the 300>R22 transition mention it.
- The trim is a pull-up knob on the center console - it's kinda either on (for cruise) or off (for hovering/slow work); don't forget to push it back down as you get low and slow, else you'll have some unnecessary lateral pressure on the cyclic.
- in autos you'll have to be pretty assertive on the collective to prevent an overspeed, as the auto is first entered. That said, it's also easy to "overwork" the collective to keep the RPMs where they need to be. This just takes practice, which I don't have enough of (I only fly R22s occasionally, with a mere 20-ish hours in 'em). In theory your instructor will be on top of things, but I think I oversped an R22 with about 10 hours left before rebuild a couple years ago, although the CFI didn't say anyhing about it.
They're fun ships, but can't carry enough to suit my needs (I'm over 220lbs) and a bit unforgiving.
Dave Blevins
- the cyclic moves up and down, in addition to the front-back/left-right motion that you're used to. The up and down thing can add to the initial "confusion" about the cyclic, even though that motion does nothing at all except jerk the CFI's grip out of his hand if you yank yours down sharply
. I only mention this because I heard a guy that did the 300>R22 transition mention it.- The trim is a pull-up knob on the center console - it's kinda either on (for cruise) or off (for hovering/slow work); don't forget to push it back down as you get low and slow, else you'll have some unnecessary lateral pressure on the cyclic.
- in autos you'll have to be pretty assertive on the collective to prevent an overspeed, as the auto is first entered. That said, it's also easy to "overwork" the collective to keep the RPMs where they need to be. This just takes practice, which I don't have enough of (I only fly R22s occasionally, with a mere 20-ish hours in 'em). In theory your instructor will be on top of things, but I think I oversped an R22 with about 10 hours left before rebuild a couple years ago, although the CFI didn't say anyhing about it.
They're fun ships, but can't carry enough to suit my needs (I'm over 220lbs) and a bit unforgiving.
Dave Blevins
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The "up and down" motion of the cyclic that keeps being mentioned here should be an absolute non-event. If you have your hand resting on the inside of your thigh, the cyclic should never get moved in the "up and down" motion while you are flying. It does make it much easier to enter and exit the aircraft though. The Robinson is much harder to learn to fly than the 300. And many will tell you if you master it, anything else you fly helicopter-wise will be a snap.
I know guys who transitioned to the R22 from the 300 and did it fine. From the 300 to the R22 may tale a little practice.
It takes more skill to fly, for sure. (Hi Fling)
I know guys who transitioned to the R22 from the 300 and did it fine. From the 300 to the R22 may tale a little practice.
It takes more skill to fly, for sure. (Hi Fling)
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I did an SFAR-73 check out in one some years back. At the time most of my time was in either Bell 47's 500's and Bell 206's. I found the thing a little different. but after an hour or so, I settled down some. I was not all that current at the time. The SFAR says you need 10 hours of training in one at a min before the indorsment. It makes sense I guess, I ended up with 11 hours or so. Have not flown one since. They are different. I don't think you will have much trouble with it. Just take your time and don't do to much in one sitting.
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R22 Ground Handling Wheels
If you are on your own and the surface is anything but smooth, it is easy to get an R22 on wheels stuck in a rut etc. A friend told me he has seen a pair of wheels which are much thinner than the Robinson ones and have solid tyres rather than pneumatic. Apparently they make ground handling much easier.
Does anyone know of a source for these, or maybe they were just homemade by the owner?
Does anyone know of a source for these, or maybe they were just homemade by the owner?
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This is a bit more complex than it sounds. I had the opposite experience to organ donors. I had a set of wheels that were solid, thinner and slightly smaller diameter than the real robbie wheels.
I found them to be a lot more difficult to manage, especially on rougher ashphalt. They tended to jam more in the ruts and on loose bits of gravel etc. Part of this might have been due to the slightly smaller diameter so if you continue down that path I would suggest going as big diameter as you can still get to fit in the wheel lugs.
The other problem I had was the wheels were put onto a normal set of wheel handles/axle. After about a year the base of the short stub axle (that goes into the skid bracket) broke along the 45 degree weld while I was moving the machine. Very inconvenient as it was stuck half in / half out of the hangar. I had it welded up and it broke again. Had it rewelded and a solid rod fitted inside with the broken bit as a sleeve. Then the other wheel broke in the same place. The welder fixed it and suggested the cause was with the solid tyres the jarring of rough ashphalt was transmitted into the hub of the wheel and it eventually gave way. The pneumatic tyres (the proper ones) absorbed a lot of the jarring as it was pushed around over the rougher asphalt.
The solid-rod fix seemed to work so you may think about a pre-emptive fix.
I manufactured a front set of wheels on an cross bar that allowed me to spread the weight on 4 wheels and that made it a lot easier. (From an idea I saw for a similar system on a Squirrel in a magazine) Was easy to make and meant I could easily push it around myself and roughness of the ground made no difference.
Diagram attached - sorry about the quality of my art work
Works well even with solid wheels. Allows you to push or pull from any position without a second person - tail boom, engine frame or even backwards from on the nose.
The rope loop tied to the cross bar allows you to pull it into place while standing at the tail. You pull down on the tail and lift the skid toes then pull the wheels into position. Make the rope the right length to hang on the stinger so you don't have to hold the rope yourself.
The wooden "U" shaped blocks and strips of velcro are held on with plastic zip ties. The wooden blocks fit the skids in and are shaped to stop the skids slipping off as you turn. The velcro strips keep the skids in place while you are manouvring.
I will say that I agree with organ donor about the lack of inconvenient flat tyres. Never had one in five years.
I found them to be a lot more difficult to manage, especially on rougher ashphalt. They tended to jam more in the ruts and on loose bits of gravel etc. Part of this might have been due to the slightly smaller diameter so if you continue down that path I would suggest going as big diameter as you can still get to fit in the wheel lugs.
The other problem I had was the wheels were put onto a normal set of wheel handles/axle. After about a year the base of the short stub axle (that goes into the skid bracket) broke along the 45 degree weld while I was moving the machine. Very inconvenient as it was stuck half in / half out of the hangar. I had it welded up and it broke again. Had it rewelded and a solid rod fitted inside with the broken bit as a sleeve. Then the other wheel broke in the same place. The welder fixed it and suggested the cause was with the solid tyres the jarring of rough ashphalt was transmitted into the hub of the wheel and it eventually gave way. The pneumatic tyres (the proper ones) absorbed a lot of the jarring as it was pushed around over the rougher asphalt.
The solid-rod fix seemed to work so you may think about a pre-emptive fix.
I manufactured a front set of wheels on an cross bar that allowed me to spread the weight on 4 wheels and that made it a lot easier. (From an idea I saw for a similar system on a Squirrel in a magazine) Was easy to make and meant I could easily push it around myself and roughness of the ground made no difference.
Diagram attached - sorry about the quality of my art work
Works well even with solid wheels. Allows you to push or pull from any position without a second person - tail boom, engine frame or even backwards from on the nose.
The rope loop tied to the cross bar allows you to pull it into place while standing at the tail. You pull down on the tail and lift the skid toes then pull the wheels into position. Make the rope the right length to hang on the stinger so you don't have to hold the rope yourself.
The wooden "U" shaped blocks and strips of velcro are held on with plastic zip ties. The wooden blocks fit the skids in and are shaped to stop the skids slipping off as you turn. The velcro strips keep the skids in place while you are manouvring.
I will say that I agree with organ donor about the lack of inconvenient flat tyres. Never had one in five years.
Last edited by RobboRider; 21st Aug 2005 at 13:44.
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Guys,
Don't mess about. Invest in a Jara Aviation Helimover for the R22 and R44 with hard points under the belly. No sweating, no rut problems, just part with your money and you can do it all by yourself anywhere.
Alternatively, just fly it into the hangar - don't be a woose.
JonP
Don't mess about. Invest in a Jara Aviation Helimover for the R22 and R44 with hard points under the belly. No sweating, no rut problems, just part with your money and you can do it all by yourself anywhere.
Alternatively, just fly it into the hangar - don't be a woose.
JonP