R22 Corner
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It appears that after much thought and in-depth discussion on this topic my initial suggestions seem correct.
A large flat bladed screwdriver and slightly larger hammer will perform admirably in almost any situation.
However, I do bow to superior knowledge and concede that a fist aid box should be a hand in case any of the afore mentioned tools technically malfunction.
A large flat bladed screwdriver and slightly larger hammer will perform admirably in almost any situation.
However, I do bow to superior knowledge and concede that a fist aid box should be a hand in case any of the afore mentioned tools technically malfunction.
Join Date: Jul 2000
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Supreme Court reinstates $6 million punitive award
The California Supreme Court reinstated a $6 million punitive award to Robinson Helicopter Co., ruling a jury was right to punish an Ohio supplier for misrepresenting faulty engine parts sold to the Torrance-based company.
The state high court's 6-1 decision in San Francisco overturned a lower court ruling that reversed a Superior Court jury's award to the helicopter manufacturer.
Robinson sued Toledo, Ohio-based Dana Corp. after discovering cracks in engine clutches it purchased from the company. Dana had changed the way it manufactured the parts without telling Robinson.
The Sprag clutch is primarily a safety mechanism that allows the helicopter's rotor blades to continue turning, and the pilot to maintain control of the helicopter, even if the aircraft loses power.
Of the 3,707 Sprag clutches Robinson bought from Dana between 1984 and July 1996, only 0.03 percent were faulty. But nearly 10 percent of the approximately 990 clutches purchased between July 1996 and October 1997 failed.
Dana disclosed for the first time in 1998 that it had changed the way it manufactured the parts during that period. Robinson was required to recall and replace all the faulty clutch assemblies, which cost the company more than $1.5 million.
Jurors decided Dana should pay $1.5 million to Robinson in compensatory damages and $6 million in punitive damages. But the 2nd District Court of Appeal reversed the punitive damage award in January 2003, saying it was a contractual dispute that did not warrant punitive damages.
Robinson appealed to the state Supreme Court, which disagreed with the lower court and Dana's argument that "proposes to increase the certainty in contractual relationships by encouraging fraudulent conduct at the expense of an innocent party," the opinion stated.
Senis Semper Fidelis
Join Date: Feb 2001
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ZX good morning on the first day of our new year,
That weight should not cause any problem, you still need to fly the heli, and normal auto rules will still get you down, 1080lbs will still fall to earth exactly like something bigger, just fly it on down stick with the rules for RRPM and you'll be fine.
Vfr
That weight should not cause any problem, you still need to fly the heli, and normal auto rules will still get you down, 1080lbs will still fall to earth exactly like something bigger, just fly it on down stick with the rules for RRPM and you'll be fine.
Vfr
as KMS says shouldn't be a problem, the RFM allows operation down to 920lb Gross weight and the RRPM should remain inside limits if flown within the parameters specified in the Manual.
If it looks likes its about to scurry off out of limits it may be set up wrong. The maintenance manual does specify what RRPM you should get for a given Gross weight and DA so you can calculate it from that.
However if you get to that point where you think it may go out of limits in flight might I suggest you take someone with you of great experience who knows how to read the figures and how to recover if it does go wrong.
Cheers
V.
If it looks likes its about to scurry off out of limits it may be set up wrong. The maintenance manual does specify what RRPM you should get for a given Gross weight and DA so you can calculate it from that.
However if you get to that point where you think it may go out of limits in flight might I suggest you take someone with you of great experience who knows how to read the figures and how to recover if it does go wrong.
Cheers
V.
It's not so much maintaining RRP that's the problem assuming you get established into autorotation. It's the ability to recover lost RRPM that will be harder and gives even less margin for error when the donkey quits. Be very wary of low AUM and cold, high pressure days in winter; this is the worst combination of circumstances for successful autorotation entry.
J
J
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The Good News is, of course, that because you are light, your rate of descent will be lower, so the flare will not need to generate as much lift.........
It's an energy thing...
HOSS
Good point HOSS.
If you go out on your own with little fuel (ie light) and set up a stabilised auto at say 60 Kts and note your RRPM and ROD. Say its 92% and 1800 fpm.
If you then load it up to MAUW and set it up again under the same conditions, and then use collective to bring the RRPM to 92% as before, you will notice your ROD will be very close to before.
As an aside, after doing lots of autos with students in the R22, I realised I'd never actually done one alone and light. Out I went and it felt very similar in the descent. The noticeable difference was that it was much easier to pull it up and land at the bottom. Less weight = less energy required to stop the ROD. Solo students, have a little faith....
If you go out on your own with little fuel (ie light) and set up a stabilised auto at say 60 Kts and note your RRPM and ROD. Say its 92% and 1800 fpm.
If you then load it up to MAUW and set it up again under the same conditions, and then use collective to bring the RRPM to 92% as before, you will notice your ROD will be very close to before.
As an aside, after doing lots of autos with students in the R22, I realised I'd never actually done one alone and light. Out I went and it felt very similar in the descent. The noticeable difference was that it was much easier to pull it up and land at the bottom. Less weight = less energy required to stop the ROD. Solo students, have a little faith....
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Autorotating in a R22 is all about technique, yes if not done correctly, the Rrpm will decay to dangerously low numbers: I've seen 78% with students; but it will always be recoverable if the basics are followed: SPEED = LIFE up to the FLARE, thereafter RRPM = LIFE to touch down. It simply means that if you maintain 65kts or higher up to the flare, you can basically recover from any low Rrpm situation and still be able to do a safe full on auto or landing in a real engine failure situation.
Just a small reminder; remember Rrpm is a function of ROD; the lower the ROD the lower the Rrpm; we need to fall to be able to autorotate!!!
Just a small reminder; remember Rrpm is a function of ROD; the lower the ROD the lower the Rrpm; we need to fall to be able to autorotate!!!
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Latecomer;
Enstroms have almost 7 sec to get that lever down when entering autoratation due to the fact that it has a HIGH Inertia rotor system unlike the R22.
Most lighter turbines have high inertia systems as well so you have more time to react.
It IS possible to have an engine failure without warning, the governor on a 22 will also mask engine icing so check that carb heat gauge, there is always a chance of losing the drive belts which gives no warning at all until you hear the bang. Its not just for an engine failure you may need to autorotate for.
I would suggest you try and attend a Robinson safety course, that way you will have more knowledge and understanding of the aircraft you fly rather than being afraid of it
Enstroms have almost 7 sec to get that lever down when entering autoratation due to the fact that it has a HIGH Inertia rotor system unlike the R22.
Most lighter turbines have high inertia systems as well so you have more time to react.
It IS possible to have an engine failure without warning, the governor on a 22 will also mask engine icing so check that carb heat gauge, there is always a chance of losing the drive belts which gives no warning at all until you hear the bang. Its not just for an engine failure you may need to autorotate for.
I would suggest you try and attend a Robinson safety course, that way you will have more knowledge and understanding of the aircraft you fly rather than being afraid of it
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Autorotate a R22
A few years ago I was given a quick demo by a chap who,was quite determined to show me what a hotshot flier he was (R22 machine). The demo included quick stops at approx 50ft. He carried out a number of them. I now know what a complete pratt he was. Dare I venture to suggest that there are many conditions even when observing the height velocity chart that low inertia 22 blades could get the unwary into an irretreivable situation. 1.1 seconds is not enough! If the brakes on your car had a 1.1 second delay but only during emergency stops, would you put up with it. Write to FR and tell him you want more inertia. He only needs to completely re- design the machine but starting with the blades and working backwards this time. The blades weigh about 30lb but the centre of mass is only about 4 feet from the root
Iconoclast
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Show me the money!!!!
If you follow the money trail the money will most likely be deposited in an offshore bank and not be shown as a financial asset of the Robinson Helicopter Company.
IMHO
IMHO
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Frank Knows
The R22 was certified under standards that required at least a 1 second dwell time in all permitted flight regimes (that is flying outside of the height velocity diagram).
Is 1 second enough ? it can be, but I remember a study with military pilots averaging over 2 seconds to react to a sudden engine failure.
Personally I was lucky to have a small incident while learning in a R44, the governor not doing its job for whatever reason and the LRPM sounding.
I remember thinking 'what's that' and then starting to lower the lever when I twigged, around the same time as the instructor, but I guess this was 2 seconds or so, luckily not a problem in the R44. (We headed down and wound the throttle on, everything soon back to normal). I'm sure I'd have been ok without the instructor in the R44, but not so sure I'd be here now if flying a R22.
But this really did make me think. I mostly fly R22's because of the cost, but you really have to approach every flight as if you're going to have a problem and be reading without thinking to get that lever down.
I agree, you'll have much more than 1 second in the cruise below max weight and power, but do not think about anything else when climbing than being ready to get that lever down at the slightest twitch or horn sound.
And Frank knows what we all know, really the R22 is not safe enough for fun flying, its not much fun always been on edge and knowing your 1-2 seconds away from death at any moment. And if you're not on edge, then you may not be quick enough.
Which is why he's considering stopping production,
sw
Is 1 second enough ? it can be, but I remember a study with military pilots averaging over 2 seconds to react to a sudden engine failure.
Personally I was lucky to have a small incident while learning in a R44, the governor not doing its job for whatever reason and the LRPM sounding.
I remember thinking 'what's that' and then starting to lower the lever when I twigged, around the same time as the instructor, but I guess this was 2 seconds or so, luckily not a problem in the R44. (We headed down and wound the throttle on, everything soon back to normal). I'm sure I'd have been ok without the instructor in the R44, but not so sure I'd be here now if flying a R22.
But this really did make me think. I mostly fly R22's because of the cost, but you really have to approach every flight as if you're going to have a problem and be reading without thinking to get that lever down.
I agree, you'll have much more than 1 second in the cruise below max weight and power, but do not think about anything else when climbing than being ready to get that lever down at the slightest twitch or horn sound.
And Frank knows what we all know, really the R22 is not safe enough for fun flying, its not much fun always been on edge and knowing your 1-2 seconds away from death at any moment. And if you're not on edge, then you may not be quick enough.
Which is why he's considering stopping production,
sw
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And Frank knows what we all know, really the R22 is not safe enough for fun flying, its not much fun always been on edge and knowing your 1-2 seconds away from death at any moment. And if you're not on edge, then you may not be quick enough.
That is rather an overstatement. You are equally seconds from death when you are driving down the motorway at 80mph and passing all those big solid concrete bridges. One inadvertent swerve or a tyre burst and you are dead. Are you on edge on the M1? I doubt it.
That is rather an overstatement. You are equally seconds from death when you are driving down the motorway at 80mph and passing all those big solid concrete bridges. One inadvertent swerve or a tyre burst and you are dead. Are you on edge on the M1? I doubt it.
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Unfortunately I detect a general negative sentiment against the R22 in this thread. If considered what has and is being done with 22's in the world, I cannot believe that it is as bad as everyone is trying to make it, it's been in production for twenty odd years now and is still going strong.
Maybe we must ask the question: Why was it good enough in the past and why not anymore? Is the problem maybe with today's training and general skills of the pilots or has the machine just served it's life.
Are we dependant on systems to assist us and did we loose the skills of true aviators?
No!, learn to fly your 22 and understand the basic aerodynamics involved and any other modern easy to fly helicopter will be a peace of cake!!!
STILL THE BEST BASIC TRAINER
Maybe we must ask the question: Why was it good enough in the past and why not anymore? Is the problem maybe with today's training and general skills of the pilots or has the machine just served it's life.
Are we dependant on systems to assist us and did we loose the skills of true aviators?
No!, learn to fly your 22 and understand the basic aerodynamics involved and any other modern easy to fly helicopter will be a peace of cake!!!
STILL THE BEST BASIC TRAINER
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No doubt about it, the R22 is a great machine.
Without it, I wouldn't be flying heli's.
However:
Good enough in the past ?
Well we know alot more now than 25-30 years ago, thats why the standards for certification have improved, and also why the R22 would not be certified in its present form today.
The time given to react to engine failure is terrible and cannot be Overemphasised in my opinion.
We're just fortunate the R22's reliability is exceptional.
Fly safe,
sw
Without it, I wouldn't be flying heli's.
However:
Good enough in the past ?
Well we know alot more now than 25-30 years ago, thats why the standards for certification have improved, and also why the R22 would not be certified in its present form today.
The time given to react to engine failure is terrible and cannot be Overemphasised in my opinion.
We're just fortunate the R22's reliability is exceptional.
Fly safe,
sw