R22 Corner
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Nr Fairy,
Thought it would be the same Dick S...
He runs a superb safety course and I learnt bucket loads from him... a very serious authority on Robinson helos... much respect...
Thanks for the link...
Thought it would be the same Dick S...
He runs a superb safety course and I learnt bucket loads from him... a very serious authority on Robinson helos... much respect...
Thanks for the link...
Helicopter Pilots Get It Up Quicker
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Just out of interest NRF did you have to pay for the inspection/repairs? If so all or part of the costs?
Or were you covered by a 'Renter's Insurance?'
Will understand if you don't want to answer this!
Or were you covered by a 'Renter's Insurance?'
Will understand if you don't want to answer this!
Iconoclast
Join Date: Sep 2000
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Read between the lines
To: Rotor Nut
"He uses every opportunity to rubbish Robinson and his line "From what I got out of this thread there is no consensus as how to deal with the start-up of the R-22 " is an example. Those of us who fly R22 were all trained to start the R22 the same way - experience now tells us there is a slightly better way to switch on the governor - just one small (but important) aspect of R22 startup - the rest of the checklist remains the same. I for one, make my own detailed check list based on the R22 list and current good practice to minimize my chances of missing something and I always use it! Lu just proves again that he has never piloted an R22 (or anything else!!) and the Bell 205 point while interesting is completely irrelevant to the R22 thread".
Lu, remember me - I tried your theories in an R44 (pushing the stick one way and the aircraft goes another???) and found them to be complete rubbish.... To quote a UK advert - "it does what it says on the tin!"
In response:
First of all I did not infer that the R-22 or R-44 were rubbish. I simply stated that in previous posts regarding the correct starting procedures of either helicopter there was no agreement as each individual that responded indicated that he did it differently from the others. In the Nr Fairies follow up he found the correct way to do it from the Robinson safety instructor and published that procedure above. Regarding my comments about the compressor stalls on the AB-205 I was implying what can happen when a pilot does not report a technical incident that could adversely effect the operation of the helicopter. This only goes to prove that the Nr Fairy did the correct thing in reporting his problem to the instructor. The instructor in turn did the right thing by grounding the helicopter for a major inspection.
If you really wish to demonstrate the control coupling (18-degree offset do it this way.
Place the cyclic in the rigged neutral position. Raise the collective and do not compensate for tail rotor translation. You will most likely be moving left. Move the cyclic straightforward on a line with the longitudinal centerline. Hover taxi very slowly. Observe the disc. Is it tipped down over the nose or to the left?
After passing through translational lift and correcting for "flapping to equality" (blowback) the cyclic will most likely be to the right of the longitudinal rigged center position. Flying forward move the stick to the rigged neutral fore and aft position. What happens then? If I'm still proven wrong then I'll shut up.
I have one further question. If I understand some of the posts The Nr Fairy is being held financially liable for his overspeed mistake. The question is, Why? Isn't that what the insurance covers? On any training aircraft it is automatically assumed that there will be mistakes and the aircraft will be pranged or in the case of an overspeed a major inspection and possible replacement of parts will be incurred. If any prospective student is faced with the possibility of incurring a massive financial penalty it will be on his mind constantly and instead of making him safer it will cause untold nervousness and result in an accident.
One final point that no one picked up (probably through boredom...) but I will, is LZ...
Lu, remember me - I tried your theories in an R44 (pushing the stick one way and the aircraft goes another???) and found them to be complete rubbish.... To quote a UK advert - "it does what it says on the tin!"
In response:
First of all I did not infer that the R-22 or R-44 were rubbish. I simply stated that in previous posts regarding the correct starting procedures of either helicopter there was no agreement as each individual that responded indicated that he did it differently from the others. In the Nr Fairies follow up he found the correct way to do it from the Robinson safety instructor and published that procedure above. Regarding my comments about the compressor stalls on the AB-205 I was implying what can happen when a pilot does not report a technical incident that could adversely effect the operation of the helicopter. This only goes to prove that the Nr Fairy did the correct thing in reporting his problem to the instructor. The instructor in turn did the right thing by grounding the helicopter for a major inspection.
If you really wish to demonstrate the control coupling (18-degree offset do it this way.
Place the cyclic in the rigged neutral position. Raise the collective and do not compensate for tail rotor translation. You will most likely be moving left. Move the cyclic straightforward on a line with the longitudinal centerline. Hover taxi very slowly. Observe the disc. Is it tipped down over the nose or to the left?
After passing through translational lift and correcting for "flapping to equality" (blowback) the cyclic will most likely be to the right of the longitudinal rigged center position. Flying forward move the stick to the rigged neutral fore and aft position. What happens then? If I'm still proven wrong then I'll shut up.
I have one further question. If I understand some of the posts The Nr Fairy is being held financially liable for his overspeed mistake. The question is, Why? Isn't that what the insurance covers? On any training aircraft it is automatically assumed that there will be mistakes and the aircraft will be pranged or in the case of an overspeed a major inspection and possible replacement of parts will be incurred. If any prospective student is faced with the possibility of incurring a massive financial penalty it will be on his mind constantly and instead of making him safer it will cause untold nervousness and result in an accident.
Last edited by Lu Zuckerman; 9th Jun 2002 at 21:41.
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Not personally, but someone I know had a MR chip light doing off-airport mountain training. No sign of overheating, noise or vibration, so he decided not to get stuck in the middle of nowhere - good decision and IAW the POH. He then flew past four airports on the way back to home base - bad decision and not IAW the POH. Needed a new gearbox after that.
The Original Whirly
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Lu,
In the UK at most schools insurance does cover most of the cost, but the pilot would have to pay the insurance deductable - first £1000 some places, first 5% others, and maybe other variations I haven't heard about. Only a small fortune when you're saving money to hour build. And most of us don't think about it till it happens. I speak from experience.
In the UK at most schools insurance does cover most of the cost, but the pilot would have to pay the insurance deductable - first £1000 some places, first 5% others, and maybe other variations I haven't heard about. Only a small fortune when you're saving money to hour build. And most of us don't think about it till it happens. I speak from experience.
The Original Whirly
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Draco,
I'm in the process of deciding if I really want to tell everyone yet! I'm not deliberately being mysterious; I'm just still a bit sensitive about it, even though it was about 18 months and nearly 150 flying hours ago - a lifetime where helicopter flying is concerned. The short version is that I had an overspeed which I didn't notice, and caused a whole lot more damage than Nr Fairy's did (no, not the reported incident where the tail rotor fell apart, before anyone asks!!) I fell out with a flying school owner over it, and though hardly anyone else really blamed me (low hours pilot, these things happen, learn from it and go on, seemed to be the general reaction) I got very upset and defensive when anyone did. So I'll have a think about whether I want to tell the world yet. I should, because it could help some people. But give me a bit of time, OK?
I'm in the process of deciding if I really want to tell everyone yet! I'm not deliberately being mysterious; I'm just still a bit sensitive about it, even though it was about 18 months and nearly 150 flying hours ago - a lifetime where helicopter flying is concerned. The short version is that I had an overspeed which I didn't notice, and caused a whole lot more damage than Nr Fairy's did (no, not the reported incident where the tail rotor fell apart, before anyone asks!!) I fell out with a flying school owner over it, and though hardly anyone else really blamed me (low hours pilot, these things happen, learn from it and go on, seemed to be the general reaction) I got very upset and defensive when anyone did. So I'll have a think about whether I want to tell the world yet. I should, because it could help some people. But give me a bit of time, OK?
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I was told that QSY never actually stood for anything, but had developed from terminology from World War Two, when all of their abbrieviations began with a Q. (QFE, QNH etc)
Looking it up at acronymfinder.com doesn't come up with what the SY stand for either.
Perhaps some of the 'mature' contributors can remember?
Ps presumably WTF translates as something that the moderators would not wish to see in full?
Looking it up at acronymfinder.com doesn't come up with what the SY stand for either.
Perhaps some of the 'mature' contributors can remember?
Ps presumably WTF translates as something that the moderators would not wish to see in full?
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QSY is one of the old International Q code abbreviations dating from the days of Morse telegraphy. It originally meant a request to change frequency, then became used as a verb for the act of doing so. The SY part does not stand for anything.
There are loads of others including things like QAU for a request to dump fuel.
There are loads of others including things like QAU for a request to dump fuel.
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NRF
Hope it's not too painful. There but for the grace of God go lots of us.
Very interesting thread - I have learnt a lot about governor detail and will also be modifying my start up procedures to check the thing operates from both directions.
Hope it's not too painful. There but for the grace of God go lots of us.
Very interesting thread - I have learnt a lot about governor detail and will also be modifying my start up procedures to check the thing operates from both directions.
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Hmm, not yet (fingers crossed).
Have had tail chip light , or thought I had it flash once. Interestingly enough, while it never came on again, and we monitored the situation (It could have been a sunlight reflecting off it making me think it came on).
Funny enough though, a weeke later that heli had to have it's tail gearbox pulled ...
I have received an engine oil temp light, however I was informed prior to flight by my CFI, so it was no suprise, and of course no corresponding indications from the eng temp gauge at time.
Have had tail chip light , or thought I had it flash once. Interestingly enough, while it never came on again, and we monitored the situation (It could have been a sunlight reflecting off it making me think it came on).
Funny enough though, a weeke later that heli had to have it's tail gearbox pulled ...
I have received an engine oil temp light, however I was informed prior to flight by my CFI, so it was no suprise, and of course no corresponding indications from the eng temp gauge at time.