SAR: Search & Rescue Ops
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 313
Likes: 2
From: PLANET ZOG
running in. Sorry for the delay, been otherwise engaged.
These figures are direct from the Westland website.
Cabin length is 8.86ft.
width is 6.89ft.
height is 4.6ft.
A bit of a squeeze are not the words I would use but close to them.
According to the latest "rumour" from MCA/CHC the 139 will only have five pax.seats anyway!!! So much for the recently announced, see previous posts, formation of offshore firefighting teams. They travel in teams of six minimum, plus their kit, to be delivered to the ship all in one lift.
The previously mentioned seats will be easy fit/remove to enable the carriage of stretcher/s. (troopseats?).Presumably they will have legs that fit through holes in the sea tray. That doesn't sound like much of a corrosion problem does it! Still, it will keep the engineers busy and out of the crewroom.
Droopystop.
Agreed. But these incidents rarely happen on days like today and imo the more assets, correctly used and timed, the better.
These figures are direct from the Westland website.
Cabin length is 8.86ft.
width is 6.89ft.
height is 4.6ft.
A bit of a squeeze are not the words I would use but close to them.
According to the latest "rumour" from MCA/CHC the 139 will only have five pax.seats anyway!!! So much for the recently announced, see previous posts, formation of offshore firefighting teams. They travel in teams of six minimum, plus their kit, to be delivered to the ship all in one lift.
The previously mentioned seats will be easy fit/remove to enable the carriage of stretcher/s. (troopseats?).Presumably they will have legs that fit through holes in the sea tray. That doesn't sound like much of a corrosion problem does it! Still, it will keep the engineers busy and out of the crewroom.
Droopystop.
Agreed. But these incidents rarely happen on days like today and imo the more assets, correctly used and timed, the better.
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,187
Likes: 16
From: Waltham Abbey, Essex, UK
A question I have asked but have not yet had fully answered relates to seats and fully compliant airframes like the AW139.
As civvie machines it seems that anyone carried should have [must have?] a fully compliant seat to place themselves on.
At the moment older airframes [pre-JAR] can get away with sitting bums on floors so such as the BK117 can get away with having insufficient headroom for cops in proper stroking seats.
So is it should have or must have?
Picking up survivors from the sea is truly an emergency where you can have bums on the floor for the excess numbers but is transporting firemen to an emergency not likely to be requiring the compliant crashworthy seats for each and every one of them?
I cannot find the finite answer. Any thoughts?
As civvie machines it seems that anyone carried should have [must have?] a fully compliant seat to place themselves on.
At the moment older airframes [pre-JAR] can get away with sitting bums on floors so such as the BK117 can get away with having insufficient headroom for cops in proper stroking seats.
So is it should have or must have?
Picking up survivors from the sea is truly an emergency where you can have bums on the floor for the excess numbers but is transporting firemen to an emergency not likely to be requiring the compliant crashworthy seats for each and every one of them?
I cannot find the finite answer. Any thoughts?
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
From: UK
UK SAR Bids 2012
Hi
Interesting choices being made by the two main contenders. Bristow teaming up with Serco and FB Heliservices (well, no surprise there really) according to the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/.../5180482.stm):
"Scots firm joins helicopter bid
Bristow currently operates a number of coastguard helicopters
An Aberdeen-based firm hopes to secure the contact to provide search and rescue helicopter cover across the UK.
Bristow helicopters has joined a consortium with major helicopter providers, FB Heliservices and Serco.
The UK government announced it intended to privatise the services in May to deliver better value for the taxpayer.
Helicopter cover, which is currently provided by the RAF, the Navy and the coastguard, will be handed over to a single civilian operator in 2012.
The contract is expected to run for 20 to 30 years and will be worth several billion pounds.
Bristow currently operate the four coastguard helicopters at Sumburgh, Stornoway, Lee on the Solent, and Portland.
However, it lost that contract when it was re-tendered last year.
It will be operated CHC helicopters from next summer until the launch of the new privatised search and rescue service in 2012."
Appearing in today's Sunday Times (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...2271845.html):
"Thales, the French defence contractor, is this week expected to announce it has teamed up with America’s CHC Helicopter Corporation to bid for a private-finance initiative contract to run search-and-rescue helicopters in Britain."
Interesting choice, so does this mean that CHC may then bid away from the S-92/A139 mixture to perhaps the EC225/EC155 instead seeing as a major French firm is now involved?
Interesting choices being made by the two main contenders. Bristow teaming up with Serco and FB Heliservices (well, no surprise there really) according to the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/.../5180482.stm):
"Scots firm joins helicopter bid
Bristow currently operates a number of coastguard helicopters
An Aberdeen-based firm hopes to secure the contact to provide search and rescue helicopter cover across the UK.
Bristow helicopters has joined a consortium with major helicopter providers, FB Heliservices and Serco.
The UK government announced it intended to privatise the services in May to deliver better value for the taxpayer.
Helicopter cover, which is currently provided by the RAF, the Navy and the coastguard, will be handed over to a single civilian operator in 2012.
The contract is expected to run for 20 to 30 years and will be worth several billion pounds.
Bristow currently operate the four coastguard helicopters at Sumburgh, Stornoway, Lee on the Solent, and Portland.
However, it lost that contract when it was re-tendered last year.
It will be operated CHC helicopters from next summer until the launch of the new privatised search and rescue service in 2012."
Appearing in today's Sunday Times (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...2271845.html):
"Thales, the French defence contractor, is this week expected to announce it has teamed up with America’s CHC Helicopter Corporation to bid for a private-finance initiative contract to run search-and-rescue helicopters in Britain."
Interesting choice, so does this mean that CHC may then bid away from the S-92/A139 mixture to perhaps the EC225/EC155 instead seeing as a major French firm is now involved?
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 340
Likes: 1
From: KPHL
"Thales, the French defence contractor, is this week expected to announce it has teamed up with America’s CHC Helicopter Corporation to bid for a private-finance initiative contract to run search-and-rescue helicopters in Britain."
CHC is Canadian, not American.
Yes, technically american can mean relating to anything in North America, South America, West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere, but popular usage has it meaning solely the United States of America.
CHC is Canadian, not American.
Yes, technically american can mean relating to anything in North America, South America, West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere, but popular usage has it meaning solely the United States of America.
Last edited by Matthew Parsons; 20th July 2006 at 16:21.
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 465
Likes: 0
From: swansea, wales
actually chinooks are a great idea, you could fit a riow of winches and winchmen like the way they do underslunf loads in three's except have a dozen, and pick up 24 people at a time with cages on the end of the wire? You would'nt even have to land.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
From: Southern UK
The "good" old days
At the request of SP here are some phots from the family album.
They were all taken during Father's tenure as CO of the SAR flight RNAS Ford 1953-55. Westland license built Dragonfly with very little power and no hinge offset on the rotorhead, note the CofG control ballast weights on the transportation joint. With Meteors, Wyverns, Fireflies, Vampires & Seafuries in the parish they were a busy outfit.
The scoop net was designed as Dad had no wish to share the tiny S51 cockpit/cabin with the not-so-recently deceased it kept the crew together in the aircraft during the pickup and came in handy for recovery of incapacitated victims. The stretcher was designed for transfer of casualties between ships.
The low power reserves dictated that most operations had to be carried out IGE but with a low disc loading the downwash (see pic 4)was not an issue and this made netting considerably easier than on the more powerful and heavier machines it was later used on.
1
2 Dad's favourite crewman CPO Jan Lock a WWII vintage Swordfish TAG who knew what he doing and navigated with a "Bigsworth board"
3
4
5
6
It is staggering how capable the new SAR machines are by comparison. the courage of the crews remains the same and have my utmost respect, keep up the good work
Some more pictures
7
8
9
10
11
These last two are caption competition fodder for H&S at work
12
13
They were all taken during Father's tenure as CO of the SAR flight RNAS Ford 1953-55. Westland license built Dragonfly with very little power and no hinge offset on the rotorhead, note the CofG control ballast weights on the transportation joint. With Meteors, Wyverns, Fireflies, Vampires & Seafuries in the parish they were a busy outfit.
The scoop net was designed as Dad had no wish to share the tiny S51 cockpit/cabin with the not-so-recently deceased it kept the crew together in the aircraft during the pickup and came in handy for recovery of incapacitated victims. The stretcher was designed for transfer of casualties between ships.
The low power reserves dictated that most operations had to be carried out IGE but with a low disc loading the downwash (see pic 4)was not an issue and this made netting considerably easier than on the more powerful and heavier machines it was later used on.
1
2 Dad's favourite crewman CPO Jan Lock a WWII vintage Swordfish TAG who knew what he doing and navigated with a "Bigsworth board"
3
4
5
6
It is staggering how capable the new SAR machines are by comparison. the courage of the crews remains the same and have my utmost respect, keep up the good work
Some more pictures
7
8
9
10
11
These last two are caption competition fodder for H&S at work
12
13
Last edited by Wunper; 15th March 2008 at 17:43. Reason: Add pictures
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,079
Likes: 5
From: Abu Dhabi
Spanish S.A.R. AW-139 Promo Video from Agusta Westland
http://youtube.com/watch?v=EJV4F_bRHVE
Best regards
Aser
http://youtube.com/watch?v=EJV4F_bRHVE
Best regards
Aser
Last edited by Aser; 31st March 2008 at 15:13. Reason: link changed
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 372
Likes: 0
From: U.K.
There was me getting all excited about my countrymen showing off their machine and to my horror the link doesn't work. Can you try again aser as I cant find it by searching on youtube either.
thanks
SW
Thanks Aser - great vid!
thanks
SW
Thanks Aser - great vid!
Last edited by Spanish Waltzer; 31st March 2008 at 17:34. Reason: link now changed
Joined: Apr 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 10,959
Likes: 1,814
From: EGDC
Quite the most laid back reaction to a scramble I have seen for a long while
Out of interest Aser/spanish waltzer - is there a logic for stopping short of the liferaft and making the diver swim in with the cable? The downwash in that wind wouldn't have been a problem so taking the winchman/diver straight to the survivor would seem to be the sensible move. Is it because it is a promotional video and not representative of normal ops?
Out of interest Aser/spanish waltzer - is there a logic for stopping short of the liferaft and making the diver swim in with the cable? The downwash in that wind wouldn't have been a problem so taking the winchman/diver straight to the survivor would seem to be the sensible move. Is it because it is a promotional video and not representative of normal ops?
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,079
Likes: 5
From: Abu Dhabi
Quite the most laid back reaction to a scramble I have seen for a long while
It isn't the first time I hear that, but
Crab and all,
Please don't forget it's just a movie for agusta , we were following their requests.
I wasn't there with at the time of the liferaft, but it's just a short swim and you have the target in sight.
Do you let the swim to be in the water without the wire attached, in UK?
Regards
Aser
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 372
Likes: 0
From: U.K.
Quite the most laid back reaction to a scramble I have seen for a long while
According to that little clock thing under the pretty pictures it clearly shows they were airborne within 2min 30 of the mayday and on scene within 15 secs...
Our Rioja works wonders
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
From: the top of the flag pole
Aser
How much vibration do you get with the SAR 139 when you are in, or approach, the hover with a wind speed of say 28 to 35 kts?
Our offshore machines shake considerably between these airspeeds, normally as we slow down. It's very uncomfortable.
I guess it's the main rotor downwash hitting the large horizontal stabiliser.
But, I'm told it's no worse than a SeaKing.
ATB
Red
How much vibration do you get with the SAR 139 when you are in, or approach, the hover with a wind speed of say 28 to 35 kts?
Our offshore machines shake considerably between these airspeeds, normally as we slow down. It's very uncomfortable.
I guess it's the main rotor downwash hitting the large horizontal stabiliser.But, I'm told it's no worse than a SeaKing.
ATB
Red
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,079
Likes: 5
From: Abu Dhabi
RedWhite&Blue, same thing here, is really bad, but just for a few seconds until you decelerate, you don't have it once IAS is near 0.
I don't remeber the vib. in hover even with 30 knots winds.
Another video during training:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO7pbFBG-0w
Regards
Aser
I don't remeber the vib. in hover even with 30 knots winds.
Another video during training:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO7pbFBG-0w
Regards
Aser
Joined: Apr 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 10,959
Likes: 1,814
From: EGDC
ASER - no, we would hover over the target so the winchman is taken straight to the dinghy without swimming. Yes I figured it was like all promotional videos - you what the film crew says, not what you would really do.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,079
Likes: 5
From: Abu Dhabi
Crab, what about a sailboat in a gale where you can not put the swimmer on board due to mast etc.?
I know the US C.G. drops rescuemen in the water, but here never without wire.
Any other SAR service drops a free rescueman? (just curiosity)
Regards
Aser
I know the US C.G. drops rescuemen in the water, but here never without wire.
Any other SAR service drops a free rescueman? (just curiosity)
Regards
Aser