What happened to NSW ems drama at 'gong topic
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Helmet Fire,
I am not gloating by any strech of the imagination.
I have expressed my disappointed after observing many months of too and frowing of issues between Sydney and Wollongong when there was 'room on my horse for two'.
Why did it come to this stage, you know people in your company didn't like change so when someone comes along with a great ideas they got kicked and knocked down even when it is IAW CASA's regulations. But totally agree, lets not go back over old ground, LifeSaver three is dead and buried in the Wollongong area and I really can't see it ever returning after the performance of upper manangement and sibling (please note not flight crew).
I believe the perptrators have got away with causing the fraucas and as they "what comes around goes around" as we are starting to see.
I am not upset only frustrated that a well maintained airframe with proper SOPs in place can be destroyed over a few egos by people who know nothing about aviation whatsoever.
God speed that the guys in the gong get recognised for their determination in what they stood for and what they believed in. These guys are the professional aviators who were strong enough to stand up and say when enough is enough. Its a pity that some of you Sydney guys didn't stand up and be counted when the chips were down on these guys, I am sure they would have apprecitaed it. You guys would rather have supported the non-aviators and that the most disappointing aspect because I'm sure you know how important it is for you individuals to work as a team, not a team working as individuals.
Days have change from my era, these days people are made acountable and I for one totally support anyone whether it be a chief crewman or a lackie sweeping the hangar floor when they speak about issues serious enough to break down crewmanship!
I am not gloating by any strech of the imagination.
I have expressed my disappointed after observing many months of too and frowing of issues between Sydney and Wollongong when there was 'room on my horse for two'.
Why did it come to this stage, you know people in your company didn't like change so when someone comes along with a great ideas they got kicked and knocked down even when it is IAW CASA's regulations. But totally agree, lets not go back over old ground, LifeSaver three is dead and buried in the Wollongong area and I really can't see it ever returning after the performance of upper manangement and sibling (please note not flight crew).
I believe the perptrators have got away with causing the fraucas and as they "what comes around goes around" as we are starting to see.
I am not upset only frustrated that a well maintained airframe with proper SOPs in place can be destroyed over a few egos by people who know nothing about aviation whatsoever.
God speed that the guys in the gong get recognised for their determination in what they stood for and what they believed in. These guys are the professional aviators who were strong enough to stand up and say when enough is enough. Its a pity that some of you Sydney guys didn't stand up and be counted when the chips were down on these guys, I am sure they would have apprecitaed it. You guys would rather have supported the non-aviators and that the most disappointing aspect because I'm sure you know how important it is for you individuals to work as a team, not a team working as individuals.
Days have change from my era, these days people are made acountable and I for one totally support anyone whether it be a chief crewman or a lackie sweeping the hangar floor when they speak about issues serious enough to break down crewmanship!
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Safety Council 412?
If that is the same 412, it was working in 1986 in Victoria and was sold to Lloyd Helicopters around 1989.
It then lived its life in Latrobe Valley until it failed to meet the Victorian Government Specifications, then over to Perth but could not meet those specifications either.
Wonder how long it will take Uncle Bob to realise he has a Occupational Health and Safety liability issue, but doesn't yet know it??
Bet the Ambo's Union don't yet know about it either !!
It then lived its life in Latrobe Valley until it failed to meet the Victorian Government Specifications, then over to Perth but could not meet those specifications either.
Wonder how long it will take Uncle Bob to realise he has a Occupational Health and Safety liability issue, but doesn't yet know it??
Bet the Ambo's Union don't yet know about it either !!
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Mr Stop
NSP is an old machine. A very reliable old machine. Show me any 412, new or old that does not leak a bit of oil. I'm sure it meets all regulatory requirements imposed by Bell, CASA and the NSW ambulance service.
Loose Mast Nut
I don't think Bob needs to be too concerned. CHC is complient with the highest quality and OHS standards . ISO 9002 and all that other good stuff. Certified by Det Norske Veritas (DNV) no less; the world leaders with the toughest requirements (as are Jayrow for that matter). Unlike some of the local operators who are certified by the local bloke out of the yellow pages who just happens to be a sponsor.
I think you will also find that NSP did meet the specs in Victoria for many years until the specs were changed and CHC delivered new aircraft (ZERO TIME NEW) that met the specs. NSP did not meet the specs in WA either and was only ever there as a stop gap until the aircraft that did meet the specs turned up. But don't let the truth get in the way of your argument.
It will be the same in NSW. NSP will fill the gap until the Ambulance service decide what they want and CHC will provide. Does the Southcare machine meet the specs required? I think you will find it does.
Personally I'm disappointed that CHC are not taking on any of the old crews, but from what I gather this has come from further up the totum pole. I would imagine that your comments are not helping their (the old crews) cause either, they all look at this sight you know.
NSP is an old machine. A very reliable old machine. Show me any 412, new or old that does not leak a bit of oil. I'm sure it meets all regulatory requirements imposed by Bell, CASA and the NSW ambulance service.
Loose Mast Nut
I don't think Bob needs to be too concerned. CHC is complient with the highest quality and OHS standards . ISO 9002 and all that other good stuff. Certified by Det Norske Veritas (DNV) no less; the world leaders with the toughest requirements (as are Jayrow for that matter). Unlike some of the local operators who are certified by the local bloke out of the yellow pages who just happens to be a sponsor.
I think you will also find that NSP did meet the specs in Victoria for many years until the specs were changed and CHC delivered new aircraft (ZERO TIME NEW) that met the specs. NSP did not meet the specs in WA either and was only ever there as a stop gap until the aircraft that did meet the specs turned up. But don't let the truth get in the way of your argument.
It will be the same in NSW. NSP will fill the gap until the Ambulance service decide what they want and CHC will provide. Does the Southcare machine meet the specs required? I think you will find it does.
Personally I'm disappointed that CHC are not taking on any of the old crews, but from what I gather this has come from further up the totum pole. I would imagine that your comments are not helping their (the old crews) cause either, they all look at this sight you know.
Last edited by Clarence; 13th Feb 2005 at 22:27.
In reply to Big Splash,Mr Stop and Loose Mast Nut a few answers to there questions and assumptions.
1. Oil on the belly of a Bell. Yep! show me a 205/212/412 that doesn't leak and there are about 10,000 of them and the all seem to fly ok!
2.No i'm not old but i do get snarly with people who don't have the facts.
3.Yes its a 412 the blades do as they want! But is it Rough or out of the 412 Maintenance limits ? No! Myself or any other 412 engineer I know wouldn't let it fly.
4.Maybe but it works and is airworthy.
5.Yes .Because it looks and sounds like a real Helicopter not a Eurotrash that sounds like an X wing from star wars.
6.Yes, don't you call something a classic when it's woth having like a Mustang or a Camero or a P51 or C47.
7.Classic std fuel 255 nm, 1x 90gal 320nm, 2x 90gal 415 nm
EP std fuel 350nm,1x90gal 445nm,2x90gal 545nm.
1000'pa 30oc oat is that far enough for you!!
8.OEI in Classic PT6- 3 BE/BF/BG fitted not old 3B's similar OEI to SP and early HP. Are you now going to tell Newcastle and QES that there 412's don't have OEI as well.
And what if NSP breaks ? well i'm pretty sure CHC will have another 412 (BZH/UAH) there within a couple of days ,tell me who else in OZ can supply a backup a/c of similar performance within a couple of days?............................waiting!!!!!
But what would I know i'm only an engineer with AUST,UK ,and UAE Licences on Grp 2,19, 205,212,412, S76, 214ST, AS332 and can identify a Helo 2 out of 3 times!!!
1. Oil on the belly of a Bell. Yep! show me a 205/212/412 that doesn't leak and there are about 10,000 of them and the all seem to fly ok!
2.No i'm not old but i do get snarly with people who don't have the facts.
3.Yes its a 412 the blades do as they want! But is it Rough or out of the 412 Maintenance limits ? No! Myself or any other 412 engineer I know wouldn't let it fly.
4.Maybe but it works and is airworthy.
5.Yes .Because it looks and sounds like a real Helicopter not a Eurotrash that sounds like an X wing from star wars.
6.Yes, don't you call something a classic when it's woth having like a Mustang or a Camero or a P51 or C47.
7.Classic std fuel 255 nm, 1x 90gal 320nm, 2x 90gal 415 nm
EP std fuel 350nm,1x90gal 445nm,2x90gal 545nm.
1000'pa 30oc oat is that far enough for you!!
8.OEI in Classic PT6- 3 BE/BF/BG fitted not old 3B's similar OEI to SP and early HP. Are you now going to tell Newcastle and QES that there 412's don't have OEI as well.
And what if NSP breaks ? well i'm pretty sure CHC will have another 412 (BZH/UAH) there within a couple of days ,tell me who else in OZ can supply a backup a/c of similar performance within a couple of days?............................waiting!!!!!
But what would I know i'm only an engineer with AUST,UK ,and UAE Licences on Grp 2,19, 205,212,412, S76, 214ST, AS332 and can identify a Helo 2 out of 3 times!!!
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· Why don`t we all calm down.
· The CHC contract is only a stopgap for a couple of months until the new contracts are awarded. CHC claimed to have a suitable (although expensive) aircraft available to fill in for the short term .
· 412s are not a contender for a uniform aircraft type for NSW as recommended by the review .
· 412s (new or old) are too expensive for a cash-strapped NSW economy .
· CHC and its loss-making initial low-entry price & competition-exterminating tactic , followed by its rapidly escalating price-hiking monopolistic tactic , is not affordable by NSW health .
· NSW Health and Blue are well aware of these traditional tactics of CHC, and of CHC/Bond`s history in Australia , when they attempted and temporarily succeeded in overturning Bristow in Karratha some years ago , to Woodside`s subsequent regret and dumping of CHC/Bond.
· Experts like Blue have not forgotten , and will be advising NSW health of the long term dangers of entering into long term contracts with such monopolistic foreign-owned ruthless operators .
· The CHC contract is only a stopgap for a couple of months until the new contracts are awarded. CHC claimed to have a suitable (although expensive) aircraft available to fill in for the short term .
· 412s are not a contender for a uniform aircraft type for NSW as recommended by the review .
· 412s (new or old) are too expensive for a cash-strapped NSW economy .
· CHC and its loss-making initial low-entry price & competition-exterminating tactic , followed by its rapidly escalating price-hiking monopolistic tactic , is not affordable by NSW health .
· NSW Health and Blue are well aware of these traditional tactics of CHC, and of CHC/Bond`s history in Australia , when they attempted and temporarily succeeded in overturning Bristow in Karratha some years ago , to Woodside`s subsequent regret and dumping of CHC/Bond.
· Experts like Blue have not forgotten , and will be advising NSW health of the long term dangers of entering into long term contracts with such monopolistic foreign-owned ruthless operators .
Last edited by piggy_mcbeef; 13th Feb 2005 at 19:29.
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Guys
I have done some ringing around and have found the following.
When the new arrangements are put out to tender (and they will be) the preferred operator will provide:
Two crewed helicopters and one un-crewed reserve.
There will be one operator or one consortium with one point of contact for NSW Health.
The specs will be written around a 412. Face this fact. Right or wrong, like it or not, that is what the ambos want, fact of life. End of story.
BK117s are soon going to be part of NSW EMS history. I think this is a very narrow view but we are talking ambos remember.
Preferred crewing model is the same as Surf and CareFlight use now. Provision of doctors is being arranged outside of the helicopter tender.
Tenderers will be assessed on cost, track record of reliability and co-operation with NSW Health.
Any thing less than a 412 will not get a look in.
Reading between the lines, I believe there are only two contenders. They are Careflight/Surf V CHC. As both parties will be offering the same equipment one assumes the costing will be similar.
The awarding of the contract may well come down to reputation and NSWs Health experience in dealing with those parties.
Let me tell you that the ambos are delighted with the pending arrival of their CHC 412 in the Gong.
A message to Careflight. Teaming up with Surf might mark the end of your helicopter wing. But as I understand it, helicopters are only one facit of Careflights operation. And I am told that moves have already been made by Careflight to reduce capital assets in this area.
So it looks to me like after all these years and all the work that has gone into establishing the NGO operators it is about to come to an end. It looks like we are going to hand it all to a foreign-owned company. I wonder what the contributing public will have to say. It would be nice to think they would raise hell but this is not happening in the Gong.
As for Blue, ambulance are a big animal, they don’t like surprises, Blue likes his job. He will tell exactly what they want to hear. And they want to hear 412s. Ask one of them for your self.
Unfortunately neither Surf nor CareFlight have any current 412 expertise.
Sad times for the current operators.
I have done some ringing around and have found the following.
When the new arrangements are put out to tender (and they will be) the preferred operator will provide:
Two crewed helicopters and one un-crewed reserve.
There will be one operator or one consortium with one point of contact for NSW Health.
The specs will be written around a 412. Face this fact. Right or wrong, like it or not, that is what the ambos want, fact of life. End of story.
BK117s are soon going to be part of NSW EMS history. I think this is a very narrow view but we are talking ambos remember.
Preferred crewing model is the same as Surf and CareFlight use now. Provision of doctors is being arranged outside of the helicopter tender.
Tenderers will be assessed on cost, track record of reliability and co-operation with NSW Health.
Any thing less than a 412 will not get a look in.
Reading between the lines, I believe there are only two contenders. They are Careflight/Surf V CHC. As both parties will be offering the same equipment one assumes the costing will be similar.
The awarding of the contract may well come down to reputation and NSWs Health experience in dealing with those parties.
Let me tell you that the ambos are delighted with the pending arrival of their CHC 412 in the Gong.
A message to Careflight. Teaming up with Surf might mark the end of your helicopter wing. But as I understand it, helicopters are only one facit of Careflights operation. And I am told that moves have already been made by Careflight to reduce capital assets in this area.
So it looks to me like after all these years and all the work that has gone into establishing the NGO operators it is about to come to an end. It looks like we are going to hand it all to a foreign-owned company. I wonder what the contributing public will have to say. It would be nice to think they would raise hell but this is not happening in the Gong.
As for Blue, ambulance are a big animal, they don’t like surprises, Blue likes his job. He will tell exactly what they want to hear. And they want to hear 412s. Ask one of them for your self.
Unfortunately neither Surf nor CareFlight have any current 412 expertise.
Sad times for the current operators.
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3 O'Clock
I think the reason is two fold.
1. It's a short term fill in contract so they don't want to hire any additional staff.
2. They probably have, at this time of year, enough existing staff to cover this (comparatively small) contract without hiring anyone.
There is probably a third reason but no there's need to go into that.
I think the reason is two fold.
1. It's a short term fill in contract so they don't want to hire any additional staff.
2. They probably have, at this time of year, enough existing staff to cover this (comparatively small) contract without hiring anyone.
There is probably a third reason but no there's need to go into that.
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The most experienced EMS crew in the nation (as regularly noted in the Mockery)
The call for CHC to employee the backseat boys in the gong, Why? Oh yes they are the super heroes of the nation they walk through shopping centres with their helmet on, burn sausages on weekends and scare babies at 100 meters. The most highly trained EMS crews in the nation. How many EMS missions did they do? and what skills do they have to make them so valuable in comparison to the rest of the nation. These back set boys have been blowing hot air up you now where for to long time. CHC is a professional organization that does not need the union mentality and work effect of such a bunch of rebel misfits that were responsible for their own demise. Helmet fire is correct about the reality of this whole saga that certain individuals families will suffer because of the intoxication of Alby Freidrich cult like organization, “but you know what happens when you play with fire”.
Anyone see today’s Mockery Surf is now blaming the union movement for its demise in the gong. Is this not what I was highlighting in the past gong theme that has sadly been removed.
Alby’s puppet is mentioned a lot in today’s mockery article. Since the shaven leg brigade, need to look for new income, could they not go into theatre and put together an performance PUPPETRY of the PENIS?. Since one of the followers is an ex -exotic dancer and all have a wealth of experience of having their hand on it they would be a smash hit, but god forbid don’t venture outside that picket fence.
Information of what the aircraft of choice and the biding contenders, who knows I sure that all contenders will supply what is required or they wont get a look in? But I am sure that the gossip will be ramped. Have not read any complaints by local gong people in any news print when they receive that exceptional good service by Surf and Careflight that results in rescue or medivac to a higher level of medical care. By the way anyone knows how many patients Careflight and Surf Sydney transport a year throughout the whole state not including the picket fence?.
Well guys I guess this saga has much more to unfold, slowly the truth is emerging.
The call for CHC to employee the backseat boys in the gong, Why? Oh yes they are the super heroes of the nation they walk through shopping centres with their helmet on, burn sausages on weekends and scare babies at 100 meters. The most highly trained EMS crews in the nation. How many EMS missions did they do? and what skills do they have to make them so valuable in comparison to the rest of the nation. These back set boys have been blowing hot air up you now where for to long time. CHC is a professional organization that does not need the union mentality and work effect of such a bunch of rebel misfits that were responsible for their own demise. Helmet fire is correct about the reality of this whole saga that certain individuals families will suffer because of the intoxication of Alby Freidrich cult like organization, “but you know what happens when you play with fire”.
Anyone see today’s Mockery Surf is now blaming the union movement for its demise in the gong. Is this not what I was highlighting in the past gong theme that has sadly been removed.
Alby’s puppet is mentioned a lot in today’s mockery article. Since the shaven leg brigade, need to look for new income, could they not go into theatre and put together an performance PUPPETRY of the PENIS?. Since one of the followers is an ex -exotic dancer and all have a wealth of experience of having their hand on it they would be a smash hit, but god forbid don’t venture outside that picket fence.
Information of what the aircraft of choice and the biding contenders, who knows I sure that all contenders will supply what is required or they wont get a look in? But I am sure that the gossip will be ramped. Have not read any complaints by local gong people in any news print when they receive that exceptional good service by Surf and Careflight that results in rescue or medivac to a higher level of medical care. By the way anyone knows how many patients Careflight and Surf Sydney transport a year throughout the whole state not including the picket fence?.
Well guys I guess this saga has much more to unfold, slowly the truth is emerging.
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Once again Bob Down, you have shown your professinalism again.
Note PILOT rumour network, take your dirty personal comments somewhere else, we don't need it here!!! We can tell you are not a pilot because you have nothing sensible to contribute!!!
1R
Note PILOT rumour network, take your dirty personal comments somewhere else, we don't need it here!!! We can tell you are not a pilot because you have nothing sensible to contribute!!!
1R
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16 years ago CHC had a 412 at the Gong. This was replaced by a 76 15 years ago. Both machines & crews did a great job.
I see no reason why CHC with a 412 will not still do a great job.
As I don't know the previous operators, I've no idea about their performance these last 15 years.
I see no reason why CHC with a 412 will not still do a great job.
As I don't know the previous operators, I've no idea about their performance these last 15 years.
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"Nigel Osbourne" _ CHC did not have a base at Woolongong 16 years ago . CHC did not exist 16 years ago . The company there then was a wholy owned Australian company called Lloyd Helicopters . An Australian/Canadian company called Brambles Okanagan which did only offshore work , failed and disappeared some years before . perhaps you have confused this company with Lloyds and/ or Brambles .
"Gimble" -You have staed that Surf/CareFlight have no 412 expertise . A quick check has found that almost 100% of engineers are licenced on the 412 and a large majority fo pilots are qualified and have massive experience on the aircraft . A large inventory of spare parts still exist in store as well as the EMS fit-outs .
"Gimble" -You have staed that Surf/CareFlight have no 412 expertise . A quick check has found that almost 100% of engineers are licenced on the 412 and a large majority fo pilots are qualified and have massive experience on the aircraft . A large inventory of spare parts still exist in store as well as the EMS fit-outs .
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Piggy
You are right. CHC did not exist 16 years ago. LLoyds became part of Bond Helicopters, then part of Helicopter Services of Norway, then CHC. As I spent 10 years with Lloyd, Bond, Helicopter Services, CHC and 6 years with Brambles/Okanagan and 15 months with North Scottish/ Bond in Scotland, I do have a vague idea who those companies are.
My simple point is that a 412 and then a 76 did a good job.
You are right. CHC did not exist 16 years ago. LLoyds became part of Bond Helicopters, then part of Helicopter Services of Norway, then CHC. As I spent 10 years with Lloyd, Bond, Helicopter Services, CHC and 6 years with Brambles/Okanagan and 15 months with North Scottish/ Bond in Scotland, I do have a vague idea who those companies are.
My simple point is that a 412 and then a 76 did a good job.
Piggy,
1985 the NSCA Victorian Division set up a Bell 412, VH-NSO, at Albion Park. Their helipad is still there. With the demise of Freddo's Army, Guy Lloyd bought up much of the equipment, and went from strength to strength.
Nigel was an Okanagan Australia pilot (like me), I'm sure he knows their background well! They had absolutely nothing to do with SAR/EMS, strictly offshore support. Except for the introduction of the Bambi Bucket into Australia, using a B206 crosshired from Tasmania and contracted to the Victorian Department of Environment in about 1982/83.
As for the 'Gong, what a shame that a few can wreck the work of so many
1985 the NSCA Victorian Division set up a Bell 412, VH-NSO, at Albion Park. Their helipad is still there. With the demise of Freddo's Army, Guy Lloyd bought up much of the equipment, and went from strength to strength.
Nigel was an Okanagan Australia pilot (like me), I'm sure he knows their background well! They had absolutely nothing to do with SAR/EMS, strictly offshore support. Except for the introduction of the Bambi Bucket into Australia, using a B206 crosshired from Tasmania and contracted to the Victorian Department of Environment in about 1982/83.
As for the 'Gong, what a shame that a few can wreck the work of so many
Last edited by John Eacott; 19th Feb 2005 at 04:06.