US Presidential Helicopter Bid (and Result)
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Gosh, crab, ya made me all misty, ya big lug!
Seriously, competition is good, it makes us all sharper. We pushed the S-92 early on to meet the EH payload, because it was there. The continuous leap frog of helo design is a product of the market pushing us forward. Without competition, the movement would be much slower.
I have a bunch of comparison data to post soon, but do need some empty weight data on the 101. Anybody? I will use their brochure weight of 19600 lbs light utility equipped, if I can't get a better number.
Seriously, competition is good, it makes us all sharper. We pushed the S-92 early on to meet the EH payload, because it was there. The continuous leap frog of helo design is a product of the market pushing us forward. Without competition, the movement would be much slower.
I have a bunch of comparison data to post soon, but do need some empty weight data on the 101. Anybody? I will use their brochure weight of 19600 lbs light utility equipped, if I can't get a better number.
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Gadget Freak - yup you need two crewman on deck to hook up the line to the helo for a bear trap landing, one for hook up and a safety man. They do not however stay on deck for the actual landing.
From Rotorhub:
"In his years in the US Senate, Malcolm Wallop tackled a lot of defense issues. Now, as a consultant to Sikorsky on its bid for the executive helicopter project, VXX (or 'Marine One' ) Wallop says award of the contract would mean an overall loss of high tech jobs from the military helicopter industry in the US. Instead, jobs would go overseas to Italy and the UK."
High Tech? On the S-92? I do not think so. Any aircraft limited to takeoff and landing altitudes of 3500 HD or less can not be called high tech.
The Sultan
"In his years in the US Senate, Malcolm Wallop tackled a lot of defense issues. Now, as a consultant to Sikorsky on its bid for the executive helicopter project, VXX (or 'Marine One' ) Wallop says award of the contract would mean an overall loss of high tech jobs from the military helicopter industry in the US. Instead, jobs would go overseas to Italy and the UK."
High Tech? On the S-92? I do not think so. Any aircraft limited to takeoff and landing altitudes of 3500 HD or less can not be called high tech.
The Sultan
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BA "Cancels 1,000 Flights"
"British Airways is cancelling almost 1,000 flights from Heathrow over the next few months in a bid to improve its performance, the company says."
New York, Los Angeles, Hong Kong, Edinburgh, Manchester, Frankfurt, Munich, Brussels and Amsterdam will all be hit by cancellations of an average 12 flights per day.
BBC News Online article.
New York, Los Angeles, Hong Kong, Edinburgh, Manchester, Frankfurt, Munich, Brussels and Amsterdam will all be hit by cancellations of an average 12 flights per day.
BBC News Online article.
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Presidential Helicopter
FOR NICK LAPPOS
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Thought I saw a CNN ticker bar last night saying Sikorsky have won the competition. Is this correct Nick?
Only last month the Marine Corps were saying the decision would not be till after the Presidential Elections (for operational reasons of course!).
If it is correct then congratulations to you all.
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Thought I saw a CNN ticker bar last night saying Sikorsky have won the competition. Is this correct Nick?
Only last month the Marine Corps were saying the decision would not be till after the Presidential Elections (for operational reasons of course!).
If it is correct then congratulations to you all.
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Mr Toad,
Hold those congrats for a few months, if you could. The decision is expected sometime in December.
Lots of long days here getting things in order, as I am sure in the other camp the late night fires are burning!
Hold those congrats for a few months, if you could. The decision is expected sometime in December.
Lots of long days here getting things in order, as I am sure in the other camp the late night fires are burning!
European Rotorcraft Forum
I was at the 30th European Rotorcraft Forum last week presenting some of my recent research. At the conference dinner Richard Case, the Westland Chief Executive was awarded a major prize for achievements in European rotorcraft development from the French Aeronautical Society for the development of the EH101.
Couldn't help thinking that there have been a great number of more worthy projects at Eurocopter over the same time period. There current research efforts are also ambitious and well thought out. I can only assume that this was a thinly veiled marketing exercise.
Don't even get me onto Richard Case's speech...
CRAN
Couldn't help thinking that there have been a great number of more worthy projects at Eurocopter over the same time period. There current research efforts are also ambitious and well thought out. I can only assume that this was a thinly veiled marketing exercise.
Don't even get me onto Richard Case's speech...
CRAN
PPRuNe Time
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Presidential Helicopter Fight Nears Final Round
Thu Sep 16, 2004 12:29 PM ET By Andrea Shalal-Esa
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Lockheed Martin Corp. and United Technologies Corp.'s Sikorsky Aircraft are in the final throes of a bitter battle to build a new U.S. presidential helicopter, a contest that could be worth about $10 billion to the winner.
The U.S. Navy plans to pick a winner in December of its competition for a new "Marine One" helicopter to replace aging Sikorsky VH-3Ds and VH-60Ns. It wants the new copters to be in use in 2008.
The contract for the president's new "Oval Office in the Sky" will be worth around $2 billion, and the winner will have a good chance to win 400 more helicopter orders from the Air Force, Coast Guard and Homeland Security.
Since the competition was launched last year, Lockheed and Sikorsky have tried to undercut each other's credentials.
Sikorsky has touted its two-engine VH-92 "Superhawk" as an "all-American" solution. Lockheed has said its US101, a variant of a three-engined European design, will be built in America, with parts suppliers in 41 U.S. states.
The rivals are spending millions on last-ditch advertisements in Washington and executives are making the rounds on Capitol Hill, at the Pentagon and with the media.
Richard Aboulafia, analyst with the Virginia-based Teal Group, said the presidential helicopter contest was nearly as bitter as the 2004 race for the White House.
"It's almost like the presidential election itself: nasty, brutish and hopefully short," he said. "It was bound to be politicized. The ramifications are really big."
Connecticut-based Sikorsky, builder of the presidential helicopter fleet since 1957, is offering its VH-92 as all-American. But it has had to find U.S. suppliers to replace a Chinese company and other foreign vendors that make parts for the current S-92 commercial version.
Bethesda, Maryland-based Lockheed Martin leads the rival team offering a U.S. variant of the three-engine EH101 multimission helicopter designed by AgustaWestland Inc., a unit of Italy's Finmeccanica and Britain's GKN . The helicopter, to be built by Textron Inc.'s Bell Helicopter unit, was renamed the US101 for this bid.
Finmeccanica is due to buy the remaining 50 percent stake it does not own in AgustaWestland from GKN by year's end.
Thu Sep 16, 2004 12:29 PM ET By Andrea Shalal-Esa
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Lockheed Martin Corp. and United Technologies Corp.'s Sikorsky Aircraft are in the final throes of a bitter battle to build a new U.S. presidential helicopter, a contest that could be worth about $10 billion to the winner.
The U.S. Navy plans to pick a winner in December of its competition for a new "Marine One" helicopter to replace aging Sikorsky VH-3Ds and VH-60Ns. It wants the new copters to be in use in 2008.
The contract for the president's new "Oval Office in the Sky" will be worth around $2 billion, and the winner will have a good chance to win 400 more helicopter orders from the Air Force, Coast Guard and Homeland Security.
Since the competition was launched last year, Lockheed and Sikorsky have tried to undercut each other's credentials.
Sikorsky has touted its two-engine VH-92 "Superhawk" as an "all-American" solution. Lockheed has said its US101, a variant of a three-engined European design, will be built in America, with parts suppliers in 41 U.S. states.
The rivals are spending millions on last-ditch advertisements in Washington and executives are making the rounds on Capitol Hill, at the Pentagon and with the media.
Richard Aboulafia, analyst with the Virginia-based Teal Group, said the presidential helicopter contest was nearly as bitter as the 2004 race for the White House.
"It's almost like the presidential election itself: nasty, brutish and hopefully short," he said. "It was bound to be politicized. The ramifications are really big."
Connecticut-based Sikorsky, builder of the presidential helicopter fleet since 1957, is offering its VH-92 as all-American. But it has had to find U.S. suppliers to replace a Chinese company and other foreign vendors that make parts for the current S-92 commercial version.
Bethesda, Maryland-based Lockheed Martin leads the rival team offering a U.S. variant of the three-engine EH101 multimission helicopter designed by AgustaWestland Inc., a unit of Italy's Finmeccanica and Britain's GKN . The helicopter, to be built by Textron Inc.'s Bell Helicopter unit, was renamed the US101 for this bid.
Finmeccanica is due to buy the remaining 50 percent stake it does not own in AgustaWestland from GKN by year's end.
My money is on Sikorsky....unless Kerry wins....he prefers things foreign to American.
Nick...hows about setting two of them things aside for me....they would look good in Navy Blue trimmed with Marine Gold and Red.
Nick...hows about setting two of them things aside for me....they would look good in Navy Blue trimmed with Marine Gold and Red.
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http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlot...9666150.htm?1c
Copter makers battle for presidential duty
Will Pentagon choose all-U.S. Sikorsky or coalition-built competitor?
TODD DVORAK
Associated Press
CEDAR RAPIDS, Iowa - Designers say it flies faster, farther and smoother. Pilots say the latest collision avoidance systems in the all-digital cockpit make it the safest in the air.
Then there's the wood-paneled cabin, soft leather seats, on-board galley, executive bathroom and a bank of TV screens, satellite links and video conferencing equipment.
If it sounds like a helicopter fit for a president, that's because the VH-92 Superhawk is one of two new aircraft competing for a $1.6 billion contract to replace an aging fleet of presidential choppers.
"It has everything the president needs to have an Oval Office in the sky," said Joe Haddock, vice president for government business at Sikorsky Aircraft, the United Technologies Corp. unit that designed the Superhawk with Rockwell Collins Inc.
The Superhawk's avionics include eye-level glass displays that allow pilots to keep their eyes on the horizon while continuing to track flight and navigational data.
For security reasons, the demonstration model lacks some items featured in the real thing. But executives said the demo provides a glimpse of the latest technology available to the leader of the free world.
The Pentagon also is considering a rival aircraft, Lockheed Martin Corp.'s US101, for the contract to replace 19 Sikorsky Sea King helicopters -- some dating from 1974 -- with 23 new ones by 2008. A decision is expected in December.
The US101 is tailored after a model built by Lockheed partner AgustaWestland, a British-Italian consortium that supplies choppers to the British Navy.
Both sides claim they have the best craft for ferrying the president and teams of advisers in the post-Sept. 11 era of heightened security. Steve Ramsey, vice president for Lockheed Martin's US101 project, said the US101 is just as fast as the VH-92, but is bigger, wider and has more cabin space.
But Sikorsky, which has supplied U.S. presidents with helicopters since 1957, also has used Lockheed Martin's overseas ties to frame the contest as a test of corporate patriotism.
Presidential helicopters, referred to as Marine One when the president is aboard, are stationed at military bases across the country to ferry the president on short trips of 150 miles or less. For longer trips, the president flies aboard Air Force One.
The VH-92 can cruise at speeds of 175 mph and withstand strikes from a 2.2-pound pigeon traveling 190 mph, officials said. A network of six rotors is strategically positioned up and down the helicopter to cancel vibration from the rotors and other moving parts, allowing passengers to converse without shouting.
The transparent eye-level glass displays, now being used in some commercial and military cockpits, are slightly smaller than a sheet of paper.
"It's hard to predict what difficult environment this helicopter could be placed in, and that's why it's important to have the pilot's eyes looking through the windshield at all times," said Ken Schreder, senior director of Army programs for Rockwell Collins, which developed the new avionics.
New technology also was used to make the dashboard less cluttered. Five easy-to-read liquid crystal displays replace the bank of circular gauges found in most older dashboards. At the push of a button, pilots can call up flight data, local maps and weather patterns or warnings.
Schreder said the VH-92 also is the first helicopter equipped with a bank of sensors to collect information about the terrain below and ahead. The information is analyzed with on-board databases to produce television-like images to aid pilots with navigation in bad weather or landing on uneven surfaces.
The US101 is modeled after AgustaWestland's EH101 Merlin, choppers that have flown missions over Iraq and Bosnia.
In addition to similar advanced avionics, the Lockheed chopper is equipped with warning systems to detect oncoming aircraft and send pilots messages for avoiding collision.
British Prime Minister Tony Blair and Italian Premier Silvio Berlusconi have lobbied the Pentagon on Lockheed Martin's behalf, while U.S. labor unions are backing Sikorsky.
end
Copter makers battle for presidential duty
Will Pentagon choose all-U.S. Sikorsky or coalition-built competitor?
TODD DVORAK
Associated Press
CEDAR RAPIDS, Iowa - Designers say it flies faster, farther and smoother. Pilots say the latest collision avoidance systems in the all-digital cockpit make it the safest in the air.
Then there's the wood-paneled cabin, soft leather seats, on-board galley, executive bathroom and a bank of TV screens, satellite links and video conferencing equipment.
If it sounds like a helicopter fit for a president, that's because the VH-92 Superhawk is one of two new aircraft competing for a $1.6 billion contract to replace an aging fleet of presidential choppers.
"It has everything the president needs to have an Oval Office in the sky," said Joe Haddock, vice president for government business at Sikorsky Aircraft, the United Technologies Corp. unit that designed the Superhawk with Rockwell Collins Inc.
The Superhawk's avionics include eye-level glass displays that allow pilots to keep their eyes on the horizon while continuing to track flight and navigational data.
For security reasons, the demonstration model lacks some items featured in the real thing. But executives said the demo provides a glimpse of the latest technology available to the leader of the free world.
The Pentagon also is considering a rival aircraft, Lockheed Martin Corp.'s US101, for the contract to replace 19 Sikorsky Sea King helicopters -- some dating from 1974 -- with 23 new ones by 2008. A decision is expected in December.
The US101 is tailored after a model built by Lockheed partner AgustaWestland, a British-Italian consortium that supplies choppers to the British Navy.
Both sides claim they have the best craft for ferrying the president and teams of advisers in the post-Sept. 11 era of heightened security. Steve Ramsey, vice president for Lockheed Martin's US101 project, said the US101 is just as fast as the VH-92, but is bigger, wider and has more cabin space.
But Sikorsky, which has supplied U.S. presidents with helicopters since 1957, also has used Lockheed Martin's overseas ties to frame the contest as a test of corporate patriotism.
Presidential helicopters, referred to as Marine One when the president is aboard, are stationed at military bases across the country to ferry the president on short trips of 150 miles or less. For longer trips, the president flies aboard Air Force One.
The VH-92 can cruise at speeds of 175 mph and withstand strikes from a 2.2-pound pigeon traveling 190 mph, officials said. A network of six rotors is strategically positioned up and down the helicopter to cancel vibration from the rotors and other moving parts, allowing passengers to converse without shouting.
The transparent eye-level glass displays, now being used in some commercial and military cockpits, are slightly smaller than a sheet of paper.
"It's hard to predict what difficult environment this helicopter could be placed in, and that's why it's important to have the pilot's eyes looking through the windshield at all times," said Ken Schreder, senior director of Army programs for Rockwell Collins, which developed the new avionics.
New technology also was used to make the dashboard less cluttered. Five easy-to-read liquid crystal displays replace the bank of circular gauges found in most older dashboards. At the push of a button, pilots can call up flight data, local maps and weather patterns or warnings.
Schreder said the VH-92 also is the first helicopter equipped with a bank of sensors to collect information about the terrain below and ahead. The information is analyzed with on-board databases to produce television-like images to aid pilots with navigation in bad weather or landing on uneven surfaces.
The US101 is modeled after AgustaWestland's EH101 Merlin, choppers that have flown missions over Iraq and Bosnia.
In addition to similar advanced avionics, the Lockheed chopper is equipped with warning systems to detect oncoming aircraft and send pilots messages for avoiding collision.
British Prime Minister Tony Blair and Italian Premier Silvio Berlusconi have lobbied the Pentagon on Lockheed Martin's behalf, while U.S. labor unions are backing Sikorsky.
end
Nick ol' Buddy....
Are we talking a Chinook here...."A network of Six rotors placed along ....." or whatever your last post said????
Are we talking a Chinook here...."A network of Six rotors placed along ....." or whatever your last post said????
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SASless,
It is interesting that you bring up the political race to this, because the competition seems to be caused by the Bush administration! They declined to chose at several points in the past, and they put off (till AFTER the election!)
It is said that the Union president at Sikorsky met with Kerry, who personally told them he would not have even considered a foreign helicopter to begin with.
Funny how beliefs (like combat veterans are poorer patriots than guys who hid in the guard) get based, isn't it?
It is interesting that you bring up the political race to this, because the competition seems to be caused by the Bush administration! They declined to chose at several points in the past, and they put off (till AFTER the election!)
It is said that the Union president at Sikorsky met with Kerry, who personally told them he would not have even considered a foreign helicopter to begin with.
Funny how beliefs (like combat veterans are poorer patriots than guys who hid in the guard) get based, isn't it?
Awright RJ....let me get this straight...you are saying a Democratic Presidential candidate....talking to a Union President...is going to tell said Union Dweeb that he (Kerry in this case) is going to buy Foreign or even consider buying foreign?
Now that is a very interesting concept.
Why is it RJ, I find the odds of that happening as being ....well....well.....about that equal to the Air Log management getting struck by lightning and settling the CBA dispute in the GOM.
Now that is a very interesting concept.
Why is it RJ, I find the odds of that happening as being ....well....well.....about that equal to the Air Log management getting struck by lightning and settling the CBA dispute in the GOM.
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No SASless! The current administration is RESPONSIBLE for this competition, They gave the foreign helo the shot, yet you somehow paint them as the American heros who have a more likely chance of selecting the real US helicopter!
And for all ppruners who will jump up to claim unfair competition, someone please tell me about how Agusta-Westland and Italy are taken to EU court for controlling the Italian market and locking out British and French helos!
And for all ppruners who will jump up to claim unfair competition, someone please tell me about how Agusta-Westland and Italy are taken to EU court for controlling the Italian market and locking out British and French helos!
RJ....gimme a break here....last time I checked...Westland was a UK based company. Thus if Italy was using Agusta/Westland....then they are not protectionist at all.
Also...is not the Republican party a party of "Free Enterprise"....and competition is always good....however the thought of the President riding around in the product of the lowest bidder sounds pretty interesting....particularly if it is not the "best" product.
But as you should know....but might argue against....Sikorsky's entrant is by far superior to the opposition. Or can you refute that statement? I know which side that ol' Teetotaller Nick Lappos will come down on in that argument.
Also...is not the Republican party a party of "Free Enterprise"....and competition is always good....however the thought of the President riding around in the product of the lowest bidder sounds pretty interesting....particularly if it is not the "best" product.
But as you should know....but might argue against....Sikorsky's entrant is by far superior to the opposition. Or can you refute that statement? I know which side that ol' Teetotaller Nick Lappos will come down on in that argument.
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SASless,
Everything I see says the EH-101 has lots of problems. Somehow 5 crashes occurred, and that pilot error rubber stamp Agusta has seems to be wearing out.
And those parts shortages are really interesting! Blaming a parts shortage on the logistics weenies is like saying a flat tire is because of an air shortage. Someone might figure out the beast is eating parts like Oprah eats ham. Those "combat proven" helos seem to need one christmas tree in the hangar to keep one flying, at least according to the press reports I have seen.
The S-92 does have to prove itself, however. Lots of promise, now its showtime. My bet is it will behave about as advertized. Time will tell.
Everything I see says the EH-101 has lots of problems. Somehow 5 crashes occurred, and that pilot error rubber stamp Agusta has seems to be wearing out.
And those parts shortages are really interesting! Blaming a parts shortage on the logistics weenies is like saying a flat tire is because of an air shortage. Someone might figure out the beast is eating parts like Oprah eats ham. Those "combat proven" helos seem to need one christmas tree in the hangar to keep one flying, at least according to the press reports I have seen.
The S-92 does have to prove itself, however. Lots of promise, now its showtime. My bet is it will behave about as advertized. Time will tell.