AS350 Astar / AS355 Twinstar [Archive Copy]
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: scotland
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355F1
The F1 is a fine enough machine, getting a little old these days you may find payload limiting if you require much fuel. New machines are noticeably quicker. Do you like Allison engines, I have no problems with them but many hate them. I have not flown the F2 but don't believe it is much better.
Not enough money for the N or newer gear?
PS. Newer machines versus Allison engine machines..is it just me or are there a worrying number of 135 engine incidents?
Not enough money for the N or newer gear?
PS. Newer machines versus Allison engine machines..is it just me or are there a worrying number of 135 engine incidents?
Thats just it, we really like the Allison and we definetly cannot afford an 355N.
We have operated JetRangers and LongRanger with little engine trouble so we kinda also want to stay with what we know, but we need a twin to fly N-VFR and IFR.
I have calculated that we should be able to take 2 pax with full fuel and thats exactly what we need.
We have operated JetRangers and LongRanger with little engine trouble so we kinda also want to stay with what we know, but we need a twin to fly N-VFR and IFR.
I have calculated that we should be able to take 2 pax with full fuel and thats exactly what we need.
Join Date: Oct 2002
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2 PAX FULL FUEL
I guess, IFR fit, 2 pax and full fuel will be about it. If you know the engines it shouldn't take too long to go from American to European engineering thinking. If it will do your job it is certainly a good machine for the money.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: CH
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F1 v F2?
MTOW is increased on the F2 by letting you have a little more power below about 40 knots. The increase from memory is about 120 kg. The F2 also has the hydraulic over centre accumulator in the yaw channel so you can maintain control if you lose that hydraulic circuit.
OEI it won't matter much as the engines are the same and the F2 can be heavier.
C20F's are the same as a C20 B. Difference is only the gearbox which is very similar if not the same as the B17 turbo prop engine. In fact without a lot of difficulty you can probably mod a B17 to C20F.
If you already have Short Rangers then your maintenance guys will be familiar with the engines. There is a large amount of commonality except for the PTG's.
Depending on the climate the Allisons are prone to oil leaks due to the close cowling of the two engines. Get geared up to change gearbox lip seals regurlarly.
Another unfortunate is the Allisons tendency to have the N2 speed wander around with the met conditions. This doesn't help with keeping the rotor "on speed" where it is smooth. It is also imprtant to try and keep the droop compensation of the two engines similar. Also be sure the engines "top" as they should.
It is possible to fit C20R's but you would have to be brave.
Ice and 355's do not mix. Ask the Brits.
Electrical systems tend to be neglected and are obviously nearly doubled over a single engine Ecureuil.
Your tag indicates Iceland so the OEI performance should be reasonable.
MTOW is increased on the F2 by letting you have a little more power below about 40 knots. The increase from memory is about 120 kg. The F2 also has the hydraulic over centre accumulator in the yaw channel so you can maintain control if you lose that hydraulic circuit.
OEI it won't matter much as the engines are the same and the F2 can be heavier.
C20F's are the same as a C20 B. Difference is only the gearbox which is very similar if not the same as the B17 turbo prop engine. In fact without a lot of difficulty you can probably mod a B17 to C20F.
If you already have Short Rangers then your maintenance guys will be familiar with the engines. There is a large amount of commonality except for the PTG's.
Depending on the climate the Allisons are prone to oil leaks due to the close cowling of the two engines. Get geared up to change gearbox lip seals regurlarly.
Another unfortunate is the Allisons tendency to have the N2 speed wander around with the met conditions. This doesn't help with keeping the rotor "on speed" where it is smooth. It is also imprtant to try and keep the droop compensation of the two engines similar. Also be sure the engines "top" as they should.
It is possible to fit C20R's but you would have to be brave.
Ice and 355's do not mix. Ask the Brits.
Electrical systems tend to be neglected and are obviously nearly doubled over a single engine Ecureuil.
Your tag indicates Iceland so the OEI performance should be reasonable.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Terra Firma
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The main advantage of the AS355F2 is an increase in the MTOW from 2400 to 2540 kgs, though the increased weight is only permitted for performance class 2 operations. In association with this there is a hydraulic damper fitted to the tail rotor control system to assist with control of the tail rotor in the event of failure of the right hand hydraulic system below the Vtoss of 40 knots.
Never had a problem with oil leaks or Nr stability. I also never had any problems with icing. The weak point of all the AS355 series is the electrical system, especially in a damp climate. After heavy rain the fire warnings quite often illuminate until such time as the engines have been running for a bit and the system dries out. There is also a problem with moisture getting into the double electrical emergency cut-off switch which can stop you from being able to start up if you shut down in the field and has caused some rather unusual failures in flight, depending on which electrical system you have fitted (and there seem to be a lot of different electrical systems on 355s). Also if, when flying in heavy rain, you leave the forward air vent open, rainwater gets in through it, shorts out the circuit board for the RPM warning system and the horn will come on, causing great alarm until you realise that the Nr are still steady!
Overall though, despite being a bit long in the tooth now, a fine machine with reasonable performance.
Never had a problem with oil leaks or Nr stability. I also never had any problems with icing. The weak point of all the AS355 series is the electrical system, especially in a damp climate. After heavy rain the fire warnings quite often illuminate until such time as the engines have been running for a bit and the system dries out. There is also a problem with moisture getting into the double electrical emergency cut-off switch which can stop you from being able to start up if you shut down in the field and has caused some rather unusual failures in flight, depending on which electrical system you have fitted (and there seem to be a lot of different electrical systems on 355s). Also if, when flying in heavy rain, you leave the forward air vent open, rainwater gets in through it, shorts out the circuit board for the RPM warning system and the horn will come on, causing great alarm until you realise that the Nr are still steady!
Overall though, despite being a bit long in the tooth now, a fine machine with reasonable performance.
From Aesir
Thanks a lot for all the info, it helps a lot. If anyone out there has one for sale send me a e-mail.
We are looking for one with L/H sliding door, cargo hook or provisions, high skids, autopilot & IFR approved. That would be ideal, but if we find one for good price we will simply modify it ourselves.
Thanks a lot for all the info, it helps a lot. If anyone out there has one for sale send me a e-mail.
We are looking for one with L/H sliding door, cargo hook or provisions, high skids, autopilot & IFR approved. That would be ideal, but if we find one for good price we will simply modify it ourselves.
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AS355F1/F2
Check with Rogers Helicopters in Fresno, California. The guy to talk to is Robin Rogers. I believe he might be interested in selling one of his 355F1's. www.rogershelicopters.com He also might be able to help you locate one configured the way you want it.
There are a small number of ex-plice AS355s in the UK. All will be high hours but well looked after and keenly priced. The market has taken a dive on these role equipped machines.
For instances there is the one from Western Counties and the one from Merseyside, both recently replaced by EC135s.
If you need contact details drop me an E-mail direct.
For instances there is the one from Western Counties and the one from Merseyside, both recently replaced by EC135s.
If you need contact details drop me an E-mail direct.
Join Date: Jan 2001
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AS355N MAUW Query
Can anybody tell me why the MAUW on some AS355Ns is listed as 2540kg, and on others as 2600kg?
Was there some sort of mid-life increase, and if so does it automatically apply to all 355Ns? Or was there a mechanical change maybe?
Was there some sort of mid-life increase, and if so does it automatically apply to all 355Ns? Or was there a mechanical change maybe?
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
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I think there was a general permission to increase MAUM to 2600kgs, isued about 3 yrs ago in UK.
The mod is available as an option; I think it's mod. no. 072157. It involves a few hardware changes [torque gauge, limit light logic, and I think collective anticipator]. The end result is that the MAUM is increased to 2600kg; helipad weight at ISA is 2550kg. There is no increase in the power limits though so for prolonged hovering it has only a slight advantage. For the corporate user however it's quite handy. No idea what the mod costs.
I also seem to recall that the French military have operated their 555Ns at 2700kg but that they -spookily- got through quite a few main transmissions.
email me if you want to discuss "N" stuff in detail.
I also seem to recall that the French military have operated their 555Ns at 2700kg but that they -spookily- got through quite a few main transmissions.
email me if you want to discuss "N" stuff in detail.
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: UK
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We operate UK certified AS 355N;'s and these had the AFM Group A supplements changed about two years ago to reflect the increase to 2600kg. Ours were already at the required mod state (torquemeters & limit light changed to indicate take off rating of two times 80% torque vice two times 78%). The 355N previously already had a 2600kg max AUM clearance, but for underslung loads. We use the 2600kg regulalry for clear area sites which gives us an additional 30 mins endurance.
NB did you notice that the previous Helipad graphs all started at 2540kg at ISA SL and the new ones now start at 2550kg at ISA SL? We can only use 2600kg for Helipad ops at -1000ft pa (quite rare in UK!). In most conditions above about +28 deg C (Also rare in UK) and/or above + 1000ft pa, the limiting factor is now the required second segment OEI rate of climb requirement (1.5%), not Helipad or Clear Area WAT.
NB did you notice that the previous Helipad graphs all started at 2540kg at ISA SL and the new ones now start at 2550kg at ISA SL? We can only use 2600kg for Helipad ops at -1000ft pa (quite rare in UK!). In most conditions above about +28 deg C (Also rare in UK) and/or above + 1000ft pa, the limiting factor is now the required second segment OEI rate of climb requirement (1.5%), not Helipad or Clear Area WAT.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: oceanside
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as-350 b3
looking for operator feedback concerning the as-350 b3 with crash attenuating seats.
question: do you find the cyclic grip too low, or uncomfortable, and would you be interested in an adaptor to raise the height of the cyclic grip.
thanks
question: do you find the cyclic grip too low, or uncomfortable, and would you be interested in an adaptor to raise the height of the cyclic grip.
thanks
Join Date: May 2001
Location: down under
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as350b3 normal procedures
i wished the world could be more black&white when it comes to helicopters.
starting up and shutting down the arriel 2b engine is described in the operating handbook something like this:
- to start the engine, go from OFF to ON (flight) with the starting selector, except when below -20 deg C when you must wait until oil temp is >0 deg C before switching to ON.
- shutting down: after setting down the helicopter, wait 30 sec on full RPM (flight idle) and the go from ON to OFF directly with the selector
the technicians in marignane, france, told us that the shutting down procedure is to prevent carbon build-up in the engine.
what happened to the cooldown issue? i was at the american eurocopter factory, and the test pilot told me what the book said as stated above, but good procedures was to wait at IDLE both up and down.
what do you b3-pilots out there think? what do you use for procedures?
cheers,
tigerpic
starting up and shutting down the arriel 2b engine is described in the operating handbook something like this:
- to start the engine, go from OFF to ON (flight) with the starting selector, except when below -20 deg C when you must wait until oil temp is >0 deg C before switching to ON.
- shutting down: after setting down the helicopter, wait 30 sec on full RPM (flight idle) and the go from ON to OFF directly with the selector
the technicians in marignane, france, told us that the shutting down procedure is to prevent carbon build-up in the engine.
what happened to the cooldown issue? i was at the american eurocopter factory, and the test pilot told me what the book said as stated above, but good procedures was to wait at IDLE both up and down.
what do you b3-pilots out there think? what do you use for procedures?
cheers,
tigerpic
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Believe the frenchman. I remember guys coming from Allisons to the Arriel and doing 2 minute rundowns. Longer on the Arriel is not good for it. The temperature in the bearings initially goes down but after 30 secs it goes all over the place. The problem is low oil flow at idle. In fact if you do idle an Arriel it is better to run it back to "Flight" for a period prior to shutting down. Operate IAW the RFM, simple.
I have always complied with the RFM on the B3. This sort of procedure, based also on experience, is not lightly determined by the manufacturer, and untill now I have never heard of something different.
Astar Engineer req.
Hey Lads,
Does anyone know anybody with an Astar engineering ticket who needs some work for the Canadian season?
It will be contract on fires with employment during winter at a major SW Ontario city. Really good conditions and a great boss.
Immigration assistance will be provided for the right person.
Kinda getting urgent too....
Thanks in advance
Please contact:
[email protected]
Does anyone know anybody with an Astar engineering ticket who needs some work for the Canadian season?
It will be contract on fires with employment during winter at a major SW Ontario city. Really good conditions and a great boss.
Immigration assistance will be provided for the right person.
Kinda getting urgent too....
Thanks in advance
Please contact:
[email protected]
Last edited by Steve76; 30th May 2003 at 06:02.
355 N Starting Sequence ?
Could any 'N' drivers describe the main differences in the starting sequence from the N to the Allison shod ones.Can't get my mittens on the manual until next week!