Helicopter Urban Myths
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Fantastic, good to see that the hearty debate still rages.
Good to see
Sorry Lu, but I have to go with Nick and the others on this one.
Remeber; Debate stimulates the mind and opens the brain to new ideas.
One myth which I hear often is:
You have to first learn to fly fixed wing before you take helicopter training.
Or, Helicopters can do instrument letdown vertically over a NDB and dont need to do the full approach.
Regarding all this complicated aerodynamic stuff on how the rotor behaves and works, I think my old instructor explained it best when he was trying to get us to understand some complex aerodynamics stuff. He said:
"This all is besides the point really because the only thing that makes a helicopter fly is MONEY, and lots of it. Without money no helicopter will fly!
How true : )
You have to first learn to fly fixed wing before you take helicopter training.
Or, Helicopters can do instrument letdown vertically over a NDB and dont need to do the full approach.
Regarding all this complicated aerodynamic stuff on how the rotor behaves and works, I think my old instructor explained it best when he was trying to get us to understand some complex aerodynamics stuff. He said:
"This all is besides the point really because the only thing that makes a helicopter fly is MONEY, and lots of it. Without money no helicopter will fly!
How true : )
Paul....
Not in all cases does learning stem from debate.....We have Nick and Lu as prime examples of how that can be. They certainly have a spirited exchange now and then...but rarely does there seem to a veer towards the new.
Not in all cases does learning stem from debate.....We have Nick and Lu as prime examples of how that can be. They certainly have a spirited exchange now and then...but rarely does there seem to a veer towards the new.
Hovering AND talking
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You have to first learn to fly fixed wing before you take helicopter training
Cheers
Whirlygig
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SASLess, or can I call you STAB out?????
Yep, totally agree, in the case of the duelling combatants, myself included, it is often difficult to see the others point of view. Especially as we get further along our individual timelines.
This thread is for the discussion of 'helicopter myths' and as such, even with a non moving debate the spectators tend to learn alot from the subject content.
It is not always having to re-invent the wheel that keeps us going forward and often a 'ahh but I saw that on PPrune' that jogs the old grey cells and pushes towards official research into the myth/phenomena/what the hell was that!!!
Cheers
Yes Nick...but in those days it could have been a narrow body one.....your choices would be diminished today.
Hovering AND talking
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Ouch 
Put those claws away! I am learning a lot from this thread; not least on how to improve on my bitching skills
Cheers
Whirlygig
Put those claws away! I am learning a lot from this thread; not least on how to improve on my bitching skills
Cheers
Whirlygig
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Having been away for a while training, I note the clouds of dust on engine performance have cleared, thanks no doubt to the downwash created by Lu and Nick's discussions.
But seriously, the point seemed to be missed by Peter that the power available is not a function of density altitude. I hope the rest of you got the message though. It is a myth.
For those that need further education, either look at the power check charts for a turbine engine for extremes of temperature and pressure altitude that make up the same density altitude, or if you have sufficiently underpowered helicopter, look in the hover performance section and note that temperature is shown twice - with significant reductions in maximum weight to hover at high temperatures.
And I'm not sure if the list is for helicopter pilots who need to know what is true and what isn't, or for those outside the profession looking in, who have a whole other set of myths - like if the engine quits you're going to fall out of the sky like a brick.
But seriously, the point seemed to be missed by Peter that the power available is not a function of density altitude. I hope the rest of you got the message though. It is a myth.
For those that need further education, either look at the power check charts for a turbine engine for extremes of temperature and pressure altitude that make up the same density altitude, or if you have sufficiently underpowered helicopter, look in the hover performance section and note that temperature is shown twice - with significant reductions in maximum weight to hover at high temperatures.
And I'm not sure if the list is for helicopter pilots who need to know what is true and what isn't, or for those outside the profession looking in, who have a whole other set of myths - like if the engine quits you're going to fall out of the sky like a brick.
Avoid imitations
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"like if the engine quits you're going to fall out of the sky like a brick."
Helicopters do that. They all make a sound like a Bell 47 when powered and a noise like a Stuka dive bomber when not.....
Helicopters do that. They all make a sound like a Bell 47 when powered and a noise like a Stuka dive bomber when not.....
k!'
Mine was quite the opposite....popped off the top of a 10,000 foot mountain in Alaska....got out over the flat about 9,500 feet too far below me....lowered the lever....got an almighty BANG! sound with attendent yaw swings for what seemed a few minutes.....finally decided the donk had indeed departed to where their spirits go to....and took hours to get down to the lovely lush forest below. That is entirely too high for such things to happen....would much prefer 300-500 feet.....pace of life much quicker....and not much time to think or contemplate your future. Being in a 500D....one would think they fall like a set of streamlined car keys!
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Mine was in transit, 1000', birds were singing and the sun was high in the sky with white puffy clouds, the sort your kids draw.
It all went quiet, never a good sign!
Things moved fairly quickly after that and the flare recovery was executed with a little more bravado than normal but apart from that it all went swimmingly.
Seem to remember having about 2000-2500' ROD.
Thank god for farmers and mobile phones.
It all went quiet, never a good sign!
Things moved fairly quickly after that and the flare recovery was executed with a little more bravado than normal but apart from that it all went swimmingly.
Seem to remember having about 2000-2500' ROD.
Thank god for farmers and mobile phones.
Ten mile walk out to the nearest dirt road on mine...no cells...no farmers...certain amount of apprehension knowing I was at least one or two steps down the food chain in that particular neighborhood. Brought a new definition to "whistling in the dark". Cracker "Glad to be Alive" party back at camp that night! Landed without a mark on the aircraft....other than a rather soiled seat cushion!
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Adrenalin is indeed brown with a rather wiffy smell!!
I noticed that the old ticker rate hit beats faster than a kids techno party as well.
Highly interested farmer 'where did you come from then?' and 'when can you move it then'
I noticed that the old ticker rate hit beats faster than a kids techno party as well.
Highly interested farmer 'where did you come from then?' and 'when can you move it then'
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I'm not one to agree that there is a 'bubble' of high pressure under the rotor system in a hover, although we may all be guilty of describing it this way for simplicity. I do notice when pulling pitch during takeoff, the VSI indicates about a 150-200 fpm descent, as well as the altimeter will drop about 40 feet.
Does anyone else notice this, or can anyone explain....or am I just being silly?
Does anyone else notice this, or can anyone explain....or am I just being silly?
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The indications of a descent comes from the air being accelerated down around your static port and disturbing the signals.
I was told to use this as an indication that the static system works without leaving the pad.
Probably just stating the obvious...the more accurate description is sure to follow.
Timts
I was told to use this as an indication that the static system works without leaving the pad.
Probably just stating the obvious...the more accurate description is sure to follow.
Timts
TIMTS,
If air was accelerated past a static port it would, in all probability cause the opposite indications to those described due to venturi effect.
Rotorfloat,
what you describe is common to all helicopters (well, at least all the helis I've flown anyway). What you are seeing is the build up of ground effect' ie; an increased pressure under the rotor disc.
J
If air was accelerated past a static port it would, in all probability cause the opposite indications to those described due to venturi effect.
Rotorfloat,
what you describe is common to all helicopters (well, at least all the helis I've flown anyway). What you are seeing is the build up of ground effect' ie; an increased pressure under the rotor disc.
J