CASA considers night helicopter flights review
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Philadelphia PA
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What's the definition of Night VFR?
I'll bet if you dig deep enough, it will have something to not only with visibility and cloud base, but also 'ability to orient the aircraft with respect to outside references' and something to do with navigation.
At night, outside of areas lit by cultural lighting, or very bright moonlight, you have no way to orient the aircraft (pitch, roll and yaw) and thus you really don't have VFR - do you?
I'll bet if you dig deep enough, it will have something to not only with visibility and cloud base, but also 'ability to orient the aircraft with respect to outside references' and something to do with navigation.
At night, outside of areas lit by cultural lighting, or very bright moonlight, you have no way to orient the aircraft (pitch, roll and yaw) and thus you really don't have VFR - do you?
Join Date: Jul 2001
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...Back in the "old days" when I was a "New Chum" (1976 ish?) I got my then Class IV instrument rating (ie Ngt VFR rating) in a helicopter that was REQUIRED to have ALL of the equipment necessary for instrument flight less the Autopilot ... ie A/H and Sby A/H, turn indicator etc etc .... it was also a requirement to "be able to navigate visually by reference to the ground lit by celestial illumination (or ground illumination). The a/c instruments were in case of INADVERTANT flight into IMC to enable safe return to VMC conditions ...... ergo if there was no "celestial illumination" etc YOU DID NOT FLY unless you could do so fully IFR. The Class IV WAS an instrument rating.
The rules were relaxed by DCA/???/???/CAA/CASA and I guess now the rules will need to be tightened!
As a result of the obvious sillyness of so called NGT VFR in remote areas I got myself fully instrument rated in 1978 (one of my smarter moves!) The reality of operational life is that you can NEVER be sure whats out there if you cant see it ...thus FULL IFR CAPABILITY is the only reliable way to go.
You can try to make "Strawberry Jam" outa goat dropping all you like ...but it just isn't going to taste right !!!!
The rules were relaxed by DCA/???/???/CAA/CASA and I guess now the rules will need to be tightened!
As a result of the obvious sillyness of so called NGT VFR in remote areas I got myself fully instrument rated in 1978 (one of my smarter moves!) The reality of operational life is that you can NEVER be sure whats out there if you cant see it ...thus FULL IFR CAPABILITY is the only reliable way to go.
You can try to make "Strawberry Jam" outa goat dropping all you like ...but it just isn't going to taste right !!!!
Last edited by spinwing; 11th Jan 2005 at 04:13.
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From the HAA australia website
Night Accidents kill another 12!
The latest edition of Heli-News Australasia has an article indicating that nine were killed in three overseas SAR/EMS accidents since Christmas. Article is reproduced later in this newsletter.
However, since the April magazine went to press another 12 have been killed in night helicopter accidents which are briefly described in the following paragraphs.
Last eighteen months bad news!
If you add up the 24 killed as per HAI information, add the 12 above and our 8, then we have lost 44 that we know about in about eighteen months. Given there are less night hours flown than day, then the world industry has a real problem, if you look at the rate per 100,000 hours,
Hopefully, the HAA will find a better set of figures to support the coming night conference.
http://www.haa.net.au/news.htm[/URL]
Night Accidents kill another 12!
The latest edition of Heli-News Australasia has an article indicating that nine were killed in three overseas SAR/EMS accidents since Christmas. Article is reproduced later in this newsletter.
However, since the April magazine went to press another 12 have been killed in night helicopter accidents which are briefly described in the following paragraphs.
Last eighteen months bad news!
If you add up the 24 killed as per HAI information, add the 12 above and our 8, then we have lost 44 that we know about in about eighteen months. Given there are less night hours flown than day, then the world industry has a real problem, if you look at the rate per 100,000 hours,
Hopefully, the HAA will find a better set of figures to support the coming night conference.
http://www.haa.net.au/news.htm[/URL]
Join Date: May 2000
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Spin wing is on target! There is a problem with current NVFR requirements.
But the solution of using NVGs is not practical because of the cost of equipping the aircraft, maintaining competency, and pilot duty times and fatigue issues when using NVGs. The military can do it safely as they have the numbers and the money. For the civvies, it’s strictly champagne taste on a beer budget!
But the solution of using NVGs is not practical because of the cost of equipping the aircraft, maintaining competency, and pilot duty times and fatigue issues when using NVGs. The military can do it safely as they have the numbers and the money. For the civvies, it’s strictly champagne taste on a beer budget!
Chalk one,
I disagree. The cost of achieving a military flight profile mission IS excessive, and I would agree with you there, but a civilian dose not need to transit below 200ft, fly and land in formation without a pad recce, use terrain masking or NOE, push all weathers and visibilities and illumination levels all whilst having a covert lighting system and someone trying to stop them.
The civvies need only fly at 200 to 500 ft. NVFR and IMC wx minima can apply. An illumination level can apply. Pads can be thoroughly recce's prior to landing, and most landings will be done to lit and prepared pads. Lighting is not as critical, and flood lighting can be employed in preference to individually illuminated expensive instruments.
No need for expensive mods, excessive training and currency to achieve this profile: thus practicallity is actually right up there in terms of benefit.
I disagree. The cost of achieving a military flight profile mission IS excessive, and I would agree with you there, but a civilian dose not need to transit below 200ft, fly and land in formation without a pad recce, use terrain masking or NOE, push all weathers and visibilities and illumination levels all whilst having a covert lighting system and someone trying to stop them.
The civvies need only fly at 200 to 500 ft. NVFR and IMC wx minima can apply. An illumination level can apply. Pads can be thoroughly recce's prior to landing, and most landings will be done to lit and prepared pads. Lighting is not as critical, and flood lighting can be employed in preference to individually illuminated expensive instruments.
No need for expensive mods, excessive training and currency to achieve this profile: thus practicallity is actually right up there in terms of benefit.
Review of Rules
There are some changes proposed for helicopter Night VFR.
You could ring CASA Flight Crew Licensing in Canberra and get the gen from them (would do it but don't have time at the moment).
WOuld be interested in what it is if can be posted here.
You could ring CASA Flight Crew Licensing in Canberra and get the gen from them (would do it but don't have time at the moment).
WOuld be interested in what it is if can be posted here.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ireland
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Check what we need in Europe at night HEMS. 1 Class Performance helicopters and two pilot's or one IFR-pilot and Flight Attendtant.
Still we are flying approx. 10 minutes VFR-flights. Is that safety or not.
Still we are flying approx. 10 minutes VFR-flights. Is that safety or not.
