We gotta get rid of turbines, they are ruining aviation.
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We gotta get rid of turbines, they are ruining aviation.
Sent to me by a retired Sikorsky experimental crew chief:
*Turbines are Ruining Aviation*
*or*
* Why do I miss hearing the S-58 so much? *
We gotta get rid of turbines, they are ruining aviation. We need to go back to big round engines.
Anybody can start a turbine, you just need to move a switch from "OFF" to "START," and then remember to move it back to "ON" after a while. My PC is harder to start. Cranking a round engine requires skill, finesse and style. On some planes, the pilots are not even allowed to do it.
Turbines start by whining for a while, then give a small lady-like poot and start whining louder. Round engines give a satisfying rattle-rattle, click-click BANG, more rattles, another BANG, a big macho fart or two, more clicks, a lot of smoke and finally a serious low pitched roar. We like that. It's a guy thing.
When you start a round engine, your mind is engaged and you can concentrate on the flight ahead.
Starting a turbine is like flicking on a ceiling fan: Useful, but hardly exciting. Turbines don't break often enough, leading to aircrew boredom, complacency and inattention. A round engine at speed looks and sounds like it's going to blow at any minute. This helps concentrate the mind.
Turbines don't have enough control levers to keep a pilot's attention. There's nothing to fiddle with during the flight.
Turbines smell like a Boy Scout camp full of Coleman lanterns. Round engines smell like God intended flying machines to smell.
*Turbines are Ruining Aviation*
*or*
* Why do I miss hearing the S-58 so much? *
We gotta get rid of turbines, they are ruining aviation. We need to go back to big round engines.
Anybody can start a turbine, you just need to move a switch from "OFF" to "START," and then remember to move it back to "ON" after a while. My PC is harder to start. Cranking a round engine requires skill, finesse and style. On some planes, the pilots are not even allowed to do it.
Turbines start by whining for a while, then give a small lady-like poot and start whining louder. Round engines give a satisfying rattle-rattle, click-click BANG, more rattles, another BANG, a big macho fart or two, more clicks, a lot of smoke and finally a serious low pitched roar. We like that. It's a guy thing.
When you start a round engine, your mind is engaged and you can concentrate on the flight ahead.
Starting a turbine is like flicking on a ceiling fan: Useful, but hardly exciting. Turbines don't break often enough, leading to aircrew boredom, complacency and inattention. A round engine at speed looks and sounds like it's going to blow at any minute. This helps concentrate the mind.
Turbines don't have enough control levers to keep a pilot's attention. There's nothing to fiddle with during the flight.
Turbines smell like a Boy Scout camp full of Coleman lanterns. Round engines smell like God intended flying machines to smell.
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Amen Brother !!
I'm reminded of a time starting a S-55 that we'd obviously over-primed. A flickering flame from the exhaust stack "down there" (remember the vantage point of a pilot in the S-55) told me to KEEP CRANKING! When it did finally light off, she spit a fantastic 8ft lick of flame. I had to let out a Tim Taylor, "Harrr Harrr Harr" and cast a huge smile. It was then I noticed the ashen faced lineboy running over with the fire bottle. Gave him my cool-aviator "nothing to worry about" wave, and we were off.
HO5S 1
I'm reminded of a time starting a S-55 that we'd obviously over-primed. A flickering flame from the exhaust stack "down there" (remember the vantage point of a pilot in the S-55) told me to KEEP CRANKING! When it did finally light off, she spit a fantastic 8ft lick of flame. I had to let out a Tim Taylor, "Harrr Harrr Harr" and cast a huge smile. It was then I noticed the ashen faced lineboy running over with the fire bottle. Gave him my cool-aviator "nothing to worry about" wave, and we were off.
HO5S 1
Ah yes....cranking the CH-37.....now that was a helicopter with a real pair of big round ones!
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Never seen a radial engined helicopter starting but whenever I see the guys taking out the DC3, it's obvious that it was designed for Cat IIIc - you need an IF rating to taxi the thing after it's started and polluted the whole airfield.
Amazing to watch. Even more amazing that it sometimes comes back with both engines apparently working.
Amazing to watch. Even more amazing that it sometimes comes back with both engines apparently working.
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Round engines..........even more exciting when they are in the cabin as in the S.51 or Dragonfly as I knew them. First helicopter I worked on. Needed skill to run and skill to fix.......except mag. drops and they were just a pain, lots of spark plugs. But lots of vibrant noise when they are on song. So much nostalgia, I might have to go and lie down in a darkened room to recover.
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I left the motor trade to go into aviation and made sure I went the rotary turbine route despite my boss wanting an apprentice in the small plank section.
It took a rather blunt "I left the motor trade to get away from oil filters and spark plugs" to get my message across.
They do sound bloody marvellous, though!
On yootoob........
It took a rather blunt "I left the motor trade to get away from oil filters and spark plugs" to get my message across.
They do sound bloody marvellous, though!
On yootoob........
I think the sound of a Beaver or an Otter taxing into a dock on cold fall morning is one of the best sounds in aviation.
Years ago I was sitting in a S-58 while the pilot did a run when parked next to a highway. Looked outside to see a bunch of HD bikers stopped by the road.
They were fascinated by the sound.
After we shut down they wandered over and when we opened the cowlings they saw the engine and one of their number said "It's the mother of all Harleys!"
We directed them to the park next to the busy float plane base which was full of Beavers, Otters and even Norsemen. We passed by a couple of hours later and they were happily sitting there just basking in the noise.
Of course the sound of an Canadair Argus ( Canadian Anti sub 4 engine ) at full throttle during a low pass is a sound never to be forgotten.
Years ago I was sitting in a S-58 while the pilot did a run when parked next to a highway. Looked outside to see a bunch of HD bikers stopped by the road.
They were fascinated by the sound.
After we shut down they wandered over and when we opened the cowlings they saw the engine and one of their number said "It's the mother of all Harleys!"
We directed them to the park next to the busy float plane base which was full of Beavers, Otters and even Norsemen. We passed by a couple of hours later and they were happily sitting there just basking in the noise.
Of course the sound of an Canadair Argus ( Canadian Anti sub 4 engine ) at full throttle during a low pass is a sound never to be forgotten.
Following a training flight on the trusty old Whirlwind 7, my instructor and I noticed oil dripping gently from the engine compartment. When we opened the clamshells we discovered that one of the upper cylinders (Leonides Major, double banked 14 cylinder radial) was missing - piston, con-rod, the lot. We hadn't noticed a thing during the flight!
And, there was so much inertia in the head, you could fly the thing virtually straight and level, albeit briefly, in autorotation. No need to flare at the bottom, just come down at (I seem to remember) 40 kts, haul in some lever and fly it onto the ground.
They don't make 'em like that anymore.
And, there was so much inertia in the head, you could fly the thing virtually straight and level, albeit briefly, in autorotation. No need to flare at the bottom, just come down at (I seem to remember) 40 kts, haul in some lever and fly it onto the ground.
They don't make 'em like that anymore.
Don't forget the proposed petrol engine for Airbus Helicopter Bluecopter technology 
and the lovely mock up 3 years ago at Farnborough
Overview - Bluecopter Technology
and the lovely mock up 3 years ago at Farnborough Overview - Bluecopter Technology
This is the stuff that makes yer Willy hard!
Radials don't always belch lots of smoke.....might set the grass on fire maybe.....especially if you over prime them! You do need to file an EPA Impact Statement everytime you park them for any length of time as they will mark their spot!
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Lovely stuff SAS. Brings back memories of Ellyson Field, Pensacola. After 20 hours in the TH13 (Bell 47) they put we students in the 34. Radials forever.
We were told during training (tongue in cheek) if you could jump over the puddle it wasn't a leak.
Statement everytime you park them for any length of time as they will mark their spot
Last edited by Brian Abraham; 16th Aug 2013 at 04:24.
You might be surprised to know that a passel of S-55's and S-58's are still making their living in Washington State in the U.S., employed in the job of drying cherries after it rains. (See, cherries absorb water through the stem and can swell and burst. Plus, water droplets on cherries can act as a little magnifying glass when the sun comes back out, leaving a little burn mark. Enough "splits" and "culls" and the farmer can lose the entire crop when the packing plant rejects it. Helicopters blow and shake the cherries dry. And yes, it's cost-effective.)
Anyway, there are dozens of helicopters used as cherry-dryers - mostly small ships like R-44's and the like. But they're puny and they typically dry only one row of trees at a time. An S-55 or S-58 can dry up to four or five rows at a time without banging the cherries together and causing bruising.
And so there are a couple of companies using the old Sikorskys. One has eight or nine S-58's; the other has eight S-55's. The S-58's are probably always destined to have radial piston engines, as the *only* turbine conversion involves the Pratt & Whitney PT6 Twin-Pac. The S-55's can be converted to a single Garrett TPE-331, and the S-55 operator has three (so far). The plan is to have them all converted to turbine power...eventually. About the same fuel burn but the oil costs go down dramatically! And no 900-hour TBO.
After a career of flying turbines, three summers ago I was lured up to Washington State to fly one of the S-55's. This year they offered me one of the turbines. Call me an idiot, but I turned it down, preferring to stay in "my" ship...the one I've been flying all along...N955TC...the one with the Wright R-1300.
It's amazing to me that these tough old gals can still be out there, making money all these years later. I'm 57 and some of the ships in our fleet are as old as me. Granted, they don't fly very much (only a couple of months out of the year, and not much flight time either), but they still serve a useful purpose.
Radial engines forever!
Here's a picture of one of our radial-engine ships alongside our latest acquisition, one with the Garrett turbine.
Anyway, there are dozens of helicopters used as cherry-dryers - mostly small ships like R-44's and the like. But they're puny and they typically dry only one row of trees at a time. An S-55 or S-58 can dry up to four or five rows at a time without banging the cherries together and causing bruising.
And so there are a couple of companies using the old Sikorskys. One has eight or nine S-58's; the other has eight S-55's. The S-58's are probably always destined to have radial piston engines, as the *only* turbine conversion involves the Pratt & Whitney PT6 Twin-Pac. The S-55's can be converted to a single Garrett TPE-331, and the S-55 operator has three (so far). The plan is to have them all converted to turbine power...eventually. About the same fuel burn but the oil costs go down dramatically! And no 900-hour TBO.
After a career of flying turbines, three summers ago I was lured up to Washington State to fly one of the S-55's. This year they offered me one of the turbines. Call me an idiot, but I turned it down, preferring to stay in "my" ship...the one I've been flying all along...N955TC...the one with the Wright R-1300.
It's amazing to me that these tough old gals can still be out there, making money all these years later. I'm 57 and some of the ships in our fleet are as old as me. Granted, they don't fly very much (only a couple of months out of the year, and not much flight time either), but they still serve a useful purpose.
Radial engines forever!
Here's a picture of one of our radial-engine ships alongside our latest acquisition, one with the Garrett turbine.
This was the Recip Engined Aircraft I would loved to have had a long career flying......Two Pratt and Whitney R-2800-54 Radial Engines....each producing 2100 SHP. We carried a 55 Gallon Drum of Engine Oil and a Wobble Pump for use during Shutdowns while flying. They both used and leaked LOTS of oil.
Last edited by SASless; 16th Aug 2013 at 06:51.