All composite main rotor blade
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
From: USA (Naturalized but bits still British!)
All composite main rotor blade
I have just read a claim (in a local newspaper) as to the "first composite main rotoblade" being introduced recently into service and was intrigued, I thought there have been full composite MRB's out in the world for a while now.
Any and all comments welcomed.
TTFN
Any and all comments welcomed.
TTFN
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 813
Likes: 2
From: the hills of halton
I think Klaus Brunch at MBB may have other ideas .
I am not sure if the 105 or the Aerospat gazelle were the first although neither is all composite. I am certain that even the Carson Blade has the metallic cuff to atatch to the rotor head.
I think the claim is the first all composite blade for the S61 ( though not the Sea King as I think Westlands have retrofitted many). ( edited for spelling ).
I am not sure if the 105 or the Aerospat gazelle were the first although neither is all composite. I am certain that even the Carson Blade has the metallic cuff to atatch to the rotor head.
I think the claim is the first all composite blade for the S61 ( though not the Sea King as I think Westlands have retrofitted many). ( edited for spelling ).
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 813
Likes: 2
From: the hills of halton
DAve , in my former life at Wastelands we paid lotsa dollars to MBB for tech data on their impregnation and lay up method , in the end they went the pre preg way . I think in the dim recesses of my memory I can recall the mixing ratio between the MY resin and HY hardener.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 197
Likes: 17
From: Sussex, New Brunswick. Formerly Bowen Island B.C. Canada - one of the greatest places to live on Earth...
Here is the story for the Carson Fire King from the local paper.
Maybe not the first, but certainly the latest.
WOW
And really in action with the Fire King!
Maybe not the first, but certainly the latest.
WOW
And really in action with the Fire King!
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,012
Likes: 1
From: USA
Steve76,
The planform seems identical!
The efficiency of the Carson blades (I think that is the name, I can't quite make it out from the photos......) is quite good, they are quite up to modern standards.
We use Figure of Merit to describe the amount of lift you get from the rotor as a percentage of the ideal lift from a perfect set of blades.
The best we have ever tested is about .80 (80% efficient) which is the standard for the next generation.
The Carson blades are about .78, as is the S-92.
The BERP blades on EH-101 are about .74 (not shabby for the early '80's when they were designed.) If the EH-101 had Carson/S-92 blades, it would lift almost 2,000 lbs more for the same power.
The planform seems identical!
The efficiency of the Carson blades (I think that is the name, I can't quite make it out from the photos......) is quite good, they are quite up to modern standards.
We use Figure of Merit to describe the amount of lift you get from the rotor as a percentage of the ideal lift from a perfect set of blades.
The best we have ever tested is about .80 (80% efficient) which is the standard for the next generation.
The Carson blades are about .78, as is the S-92.
The BERP blades on EH-101 are about .74 (not shabby for the early '80's when they were designed.) If the EH-101 had Carson/S-92 blades, it would lift almost 2,000 lbs more for the same power.
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 1,083
From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Hey Nick, be careful - don't leave yourself open to be accused of assisting the enemy!!
Or is it because you're feeling generous as it's nearly Christmas? Let me see now....Saint Nicholas Lap.....
Are you from Lap(pos)Land?
HOHoHo!!
Or is it because you're feeling generous as it's nearly Christmas? Let me see now....Saint Nicholas Lap.....
Are you from Lap(pos)Land?
HOHoHo!!
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,012
Likes: 1
From: USA
ShyTorque,
You must know that I speak my mind here! Were I to sell my soul and spout drivel, you lot would drum me out, and I wouldn't feel right, either.
Carson developed, built, tested and certified that blade himself, which is akin to the SpaceShip 1, in my humble opinion. It is a good blade, and is good for the S-61, I think.
You must know that I speak my mind here! Were I to sell my soul and spout drivel, you lot would drum me out, and I wouldn't feel right, either.
Carson developed, built, tested and certified that blade himself, which is akin to the SpaceShip 1, in my humble opinion. It is a good blade, and is good for the S-61, I think.
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 1,083
From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
I agree!
But just so surprised you've now told those pesky EH101 folks how to improve their ship!
St Nick
+<(:-)>
But just so surprised you've now told those pesky EH101 folks how to improve their ship!
St Nick
+<(:-)>
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,012
Likes: 1
From: USA
Those Westlands guys are pretty sharp! They have known this for a decade, all they have waited for is some US Military dollars to do the job! That is what the Presidential fire-fight is all about. The VXX program is (by cost) 11% helicopter purchase of a few starter aircraft, and 89% development funds for the new blades/rotors/powerplants for the year 2014 delivery of the final design.
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 1,083
From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Oh well, maybe Carson (I think that's what they're called) might buy them for firefighting after it's all over...... 
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 197
Likes: 17
From: Sussex, New Brunswick. Formerly Bowen Island B.C. Canada - one of the greatest places to live on Earth...
It is wonderful for the S-61.
Incredible performance increase throughout the envelope. Frank Carson and his team did a tremendous job of taking a fantastic concept blade and seeing the entire process through to delivery.
The pictures are of the first delivery of these blades to any customer outside Carson's own fleet. All we can say is WOW - bet you wish you had them too! After we took delivery we cruised back out to work, including a bit of experimentation up to 11,500 feet just to see how she does.
Absolutely fabulous!
Incredible performance increase throughout the envelope. Frank Carson and his team did a tremendous job of taking a fantastic concept blade and seeing the entire process through to delivery.
The pictures are of the first delivery of these blades to any customer outside Carson's own fleet. All we can say is WOW - bet you wish you had them too! After we took delivery we cruised back out to work, including a bit of experimentation up to 11,500 feet just to see how she does.
Absolutely fabulous!
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
From: At home
Quote " all they have waited for is some US Military dollars to do the job!"
Now there's a thing no other helo manufacturer would do. Just try to imagine it, having the tax-payer foot the bill for R & D of a military project, then using the technology to improve the bottom line on the civil side of the business. I just cannot see how they could sleep nights.
It would be rather like some company using a military machine as the basis for a civil helicopter. Wouldn't happen in the US!
Like, when we offer up a new type for POTUS we are talking NEW here, not bits copied from a military ship.
Whatever will those Europeans do next?
(Why? What'id I say?)
Now there's a thing no other helo manufacturer would do. Just try to imagine it, having the tax-payer foot the bill for R & D of a military project, then using the technology to improve the bottom line on the civil side of the business. I just cannot see how they could sleep nights.
It would be rather like some company using a military machine as the basis for a civil helicopter. Wouldn't happen in the US!
Like, when we offer up a new type for POTUS we are talking NEW here, not bits copied from a military ship.
Whatever will those Europeans do next?
(Why? What'id I say?)
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,012
Likes: 1
From: USA
SawThe Light,
I think you saw the light! We are not talking about buying an off the shelf product. Imagine the British government pays a Russan organization billions to develop the next generation rotor blade for Britain, while the guys in Yeovil sit by and go on the dole.
Yep, you get the picture.
I think you saw the light! We are not talking about buying an off the shelf product. Imagine the British government pays a Russan organization billions to develop the next generation rotor blade for Britain, while the guys in Yeovil sit by and go on the dole.
Yep, you get the picture.
Last edited by NickLappos; 5th December 2004 at 14:47.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: netherlands
As far as I could trace it, the BERP blades are designed by Westland as an improvement on the Lynx helicopters.
Actually all Lynx helocopters now are flying with the Compsite Main Rotor Blades (CMRB) rather than the old Metal Blades.
The logic step for Westland was to put those blades also on the EH-101.
Actually all Lynx helocopters now are flying with the Compsite Main Rotor Blades (CMRB) rather than the old Metal Blades.
The logic step for Westland was to put those blades also on the EH-101.