World Helicopter Championships 2005
Fucum Lesgo
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Waterworld
Age: 66
Posts: 176
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HCGB
Ladies and Gentlemen, I have read some comments regarding events with the HCGB. I have travelled to some of these days over the last year ( in a friends turbine) as a guest of the HCGB and have always been welcomed by the members in attendance.
There has never been any show of elitism that I have noticed, and as a student pilot studying for my PPL(H) licence I have only received assistance and constructive direction from everybody that I have chatted to. At one event I even had a chance to (fly) a Lynx simulator- an opportunity, I hasten to add, that I refused so that the more qualified of the company on the day would make better use of!!- even experienced pilots crash!!.
I look forward to the championships at Heythrop Park, it is an impressive and comfortable hotel and the grounds are extensive to say the least. I visited the venue on the final day this year with another student pilot friend and my instructor, we were all made very welcome and had a wondeful day out, did anybody see the army crew "moon" their companion crew after the excellent torque turn they performed before leaving to return to base.
I hope the committee are not fazed by the comments made earlier in this thread and keep up their efforts to give us entertaining days out (not expensive at all) - you would spend more on a meal for two than most of the events. I hope to attain my licence in the near future and will apply the the HCGB for membership despite the earlier comments, and no!! I am not a millionaire either, just a normal run of the mill fellow next door
There has never been any show of elitism that I have noticed, and as a student pilot studying for my PPL(H) licence I have only received assistance and constructive direction from everybody that I have chatted to. At one event I even had a chance to (fly) a Lynx simulator- an opportunity, I hasten to add, that I refused so that the more qualified of the company on the day would make better use of!!- even experienced pilots crash!!.
I look forward to the championships at Heythrop Park, it is an impressive and comfortable hotel and the grounds are extensive to say the least. I visited the venue on the final day this year with another student pilot friend and my instructor, we were all made very welcome and had a wondeful day out, did anybody see the army crew "moon" their companion crew after the excellent torque turn they performed before leaving to return to base.
I hope the committee are not fazed by the comments made earlier in this thread and keep up their efforts to give us entertaining days out (not expensive at all) - you would spend more on a meal for two than most of the events. I hope to attain my licence in the near future and will apply the the HCGB for membership despite the earlier comments, and no!! I am not a millionaire either, just a normal run of the mill fellow next door
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have been following this thread with interest for a while. I have been a member of the HCGB for a few years and have seen both sides of the points raised. I have been to several events and have seen no sign of elitism, but I only tend to go to the cheap ones anyway. It is true that there is within the club a clique of "hooray henries" but I don't go to the events that they favour so have never found this a problem. I guess this is normal in any similar organisation. It was interesting to see that in the latest edition of the new mag being produced by the ex editor of Rotortorque, there is a major article on the similarity between flying helicopters and playing polo. That says it all really.
I have only been once to the championships for an hour to watch, but any event that has as a major feature a black tie dinner on the Saturday night leaves me cold frankly. Personally I have no interest in competitive events like the Championships, but as I have an equal disinterest in the Olympics and all forms of sport then I am willing to accept that I may be in a minority.
Where I do think that there is a problem is in the tendency of the HCGB to keep its activities low key and not attempt to attract new members. In these days of ever increasing Eurorubbish, we need to provide effective lobbying and support to maintain our flying privileges. There are 3000 or so helo pilots in the UK, and the HCGB only has 450 members. They do almost nothing to recruit new members, preferring instead to keep it as a select group. We just cannot afford to do that these days, or our voice will never be heard. I am also a member of the PFA which has been going through similar upheavals over the last few years. They have now decided to rebrand their annual rally at Kemble as "Flying For Fun" to widen its appeal to all members of the aviation community. Where is the HCGB? None of the documentation from either body so far has even suggested an HCGB stand at the new event to drum up recruits and promote the club. I for one would happily volunteer to man the stand.
I have only been once to the championships for an hour to watch, but any event that has as a major feature a black tie dinner on the Saturday night leaves me cold frankly. Personally I have no interest in competitive events like the Championships, but as I have an equal disinterest in the Olympics and all forms of sport then I am willing to accept that I may be in a minority.
Where I do think that there is a problem is in the tendency of the HCGB to keep its activities low key and not attempt to attract new members. In these days of ever increasing Eurorubbish, we need to provide effective lobbying and support to maintain our flying privileges. There are 3000 or so helo pilots in the UK, and the HCGB only has 450 members. They do almost nothing to recruit new members, preferring instead to keep it as a select group. We just cannot afford to do that these days, or our voice will never be heard. I am also a member of the PFA which has been going through similar upheavals over the last few years. They have now decided to rebrand their annual rally at Kemble as "Flying For Fun" to widen its appeal to all members of the aviation community. Where is the HCGB? None of the documentation from either body so far has even suggested an HCGB stand at the new event to drum up recruits and promote the club. I for one would happily volunteer to man the stand.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Heli hound may not have been reading Rotor Torque. Seems to me they do a good job representing heli pilots concerns - look at the floats issue this time last year. There was a very effective campaign against it, which worked! The Sec's page tells us about things we should worry about - like Europe, Eurocontrol and EASA, and the club seems represented in the right places to fight problems, which I think they do quite well.
Glad the horay henry Rotor Torque editor has gone!
and for what its worth I think the events are good too!
as for the World Championships, these guys are no fools, and no doubt there are interesting facts (as opposed to unsubstantiated rumours and gossip) that they'll share with us members when the time is right. After all, how many of us would want to discuss our ongoing business deals in public, and we wouldn't want the club to risk its funds in a financial nightmare would we!
Better red than ...
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Appleby-in-Westmorland Cumbria England
Posts: 1,412
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are 3000 or so helo pilots in the UK, and the HCGB only has 450 members. They do almost nothing to recruit new members,
Just as an aside to this point, I only ever spoke to Pat Malone once and that conversation (on an AOPA matter) ended with ".. are you a member of HCGB", so maybe the times are a changing ??
I havn't returned the form (or the money) yet but if it is as valuable at representing the rotary club into the wider flying environment them I'll consider it an investment.
For everything else, there's AOPA ...
In response to the post by "oldbeefer". The US does practice a lot when the military is involved. That was part of the problem in 92 because for once, half of the US team were civilians with no money or backing. So no the US did not win in 92.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Historically the Russians have dominated most of the previous world helicopter championships and much of this winning ability is due to many hours of practice they undertake. The British team have now started regular training events and the Swiss, German and Austrian teams will start training from the start of 2005.
In the last championships, held in Austria, competitors from: China, Japan, France, Germany, Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Austria, Great Britain, and Switzerland competed. The teams were predominantly civilian crews and a total of 60 crews competed during the five days.
I understand that as well as the above county’s Italy, Croatia, Ireland and Swedish are considering sending teams to the event in 2005.
In the last championships, held in Austria, competitors from: China, Japan, France, Germany, Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Austria, Great Britain, and Switzerland competed. The teams were predominantly civilian crews and a total of 60 crews competed during the five days.
I understand that as well as the above county’s Italy, Croatia, Ireland and Swedish are considering sending teams to the event in 2005.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Gods Country England
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Post deleted.
HCGB news is welcome in this forum. eg We publicise the annual championships, and we encouraged people to write to the CAA in support of Jeremy James' (successful) campaign opposing the proposed rules for cross-channel flights which would have adversely affected all private helicopter pilots, not just HCGB members.
However, bitching about people and the internal politics of the club are not welcome.
It seems as if you've never put yourself up for election to the committee. If as many members support your views as you believe, you should have a landslide victory if you stand at the next election. Encourage a few like-minded members to stand and you could transform the committee and make the club more to your liking.
In the meantime, please use the HCGB's own website for your campaign against the current proposals to exclude people with criminal records and/or your campaign against the committee in general.
Heliport
PS: It's up to you, but you and your campaign(s) might have more credibility if you try to be less petty and less personal in your attacks. Just a thought.
However, bitching about people and the internal politics of the club are not welcome.
It seems as if you've never put yourself up for election to the committee. If as many members support your views as you believe, you should have a landslide victory if you stand at the next election. Encourage a few like-minded members to stand and you could transform the committee and make the club more to your liking.
In the meantime, please use the HCGB's own website for your campaign against the current proposals to exclude people with criminal records and/or your campaign against the committee in general.
Heliport
PS: It's up to you, but you and your campaign(s) might have more credibility if you try to be less petty and less personal in your attacks. Just a thought.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Midlands
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Absolutely. Well said Heliport.
Helifun clearly has a string of personal issues here. Nobody asked him to make public statements slagging off a bunch of guys who by and large do a good job in running the HCGB so he shouldn't grumble when people take him to task and expose his prejudices.
Everyone is entitled to express their opinion and people will have respect for that opinion when it is based on fact not prejudice.
Helifun clearly has a string of personal issues here. Nobody asked him to make public statements slagging off a bunch of guys who by and large do a good job in running the HCGB so he shouldn't grumble when people take him to task and expose his prejudices.
Everyone is entitled to express their opinion and people will have respect for that opinion when it is based on fact not prejudice.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: New York City
Posts: 820
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Very kind of you to post to tell us you'll be posting.
I guess folks will be waiting with baited breath for the oracle to pronounce.
"Just so everyone knows"?
Who cares?
Strange guy.
I guess folks will be waiting with baited breath for the oracle to pronounce.
"Just so everyone knows"?
Who cares?
Strange guy.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Post deleted.
Which part of "bitching about people and the internal politics of the club are not welcome" didn't you understand?
This thread is about the World Helicopter Championships 2005.
Use the HCGB's own website if you want to whinge about how the club is run.
Heliport
Which part of "bitching about people and the internal politics of the club are not welcome" didn't you understand?
This thread is about the World Helicopter Championships 2005.
Use the HCGB's own website if you want to whinge about how the club is run.
Heliport
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kings Caple, Ross-on-Wye.orPiccots End. Hertfordshire
Posts: 458
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2005 Heli Champs
The 2005 World Championships at Kemble.
Hi all heli fans out there,
Just to say I find it saddening to read the contentious nature of some of the posts on the forthcoming World Championships and the 'in fighting' taking place on the forum ...... HCGB rule changes and the back biting. All we want is a safe, well run event in the UK that we can be proud of. Having taken part in the three world champs held in the UK. The 2nd Champs at Middle Wallop 1973, the 6th at Castle Ashby in 1986 with the freestyle at Cranfield, the 1992 Wroughton event and the 11th Champs held at Aigen in Austria, I'm an interested party. albeit only in the freestyle section.
Organising anything on this scale is a daunting task and the 'few' HCGB guys who have taken it on without payment are to be massively thanked. But since we are talking about a 'World' championships, shouldn't we be thinking more upmarket in publicity terms. Just take a peek at any other area/sport in this league. F1 Grand Prix for example and the others. Even the humble darts champs beats our heli champs for publicity and exposure. (TV .... Embassy ... et al)
When I heard at Aigen that the 2005 champs were to come to the UK, I thought of the terrific publicity opportunities for our industry and the UK, but anything at that level would require professional, (ie paid for) organisation.
Something of the ilk of Harvey Goldsmith perhaps who organised the Blenhem Palace Airshow which ran like a swiss watch, and as far as I could tell, before a maximum capacity crowd.
But on the same tack, Glen at the revitalised Kemble Airfield is no slouch when it comes to organising airshows !! I have it from him personally that all he required from HCGB was to take the proceeds of the 'gate' and the resultant publicity in whatever areas he could muster. (In fact he is still planning to hold a Helicopter Airshow to coincide with the last day of the championships .... I have promised to fly the 'freestyle' for him)
I see the old chestnut/excuse of insurance has appeared which is a diversion. For insurance simply talk money !!!
And as another aside .. shame on the Ozzie for his 'pom bashing' The World Championships are an 'open' event and if he/she thinks he's as good as or better than than the last 2002 event winner, just enter in 2005 and show us.
But to get back to the subject and to be constructive. Cannot we look at placing any future event in professional hands thereby reaping the publicity benefit for our sometimes hard pressed industry. Helicopter hardware, Avionics, Heli Sales, Heli Engineering, Training Schools, CAA and NATS presence. Then Government involvement, Banks, Insurance and Finance Houses ... oh dear the list is endless.
P Pruners will know my major interest is the freestyle flying which always attracts the public/spectator interest. And of course if a good public attendance can be achieved. the floodgates open for the non aviation business participation above.
So I ask the question. Is that what the HCGB want ? I suspect not and if the answer is a confirmed 'no' then the event will remain as it has always been. A small 'clubby' affair which few care about and gives rise to more comments from our 'pommie basher.'
Thanks for reading my contribution. Any personal comments to my e mail. See you around the 2005 and best wishes for the 2005 World Helicopter Championships and their organisation.
DennisK
Hi all heli fans out there,
Just to say I find it saddening to read the contentious nature of some of the posts on the forthcoming World Championships and the 'in fighting' taking place on the forum ...... HCGB rule changes and the back biting. All we want is a safe, well run event in the UK that we can be proud of. Having taken part in the three world champs held in the UK. The 2nd Champs at Middle Wallop 1973, the 6th at Castle Ashby in 1986 with the freestyle at Cranfield, the 1992 Wroughton event and the 11th Champs held at Aigen in Austria, I'm an interested party. albeit only in the freestyle section.
Organising anything on this scale is a daunting task and the 'few' HCGB guys who have taken it on without payment are to be massively thanked. But since we are talking about a 'World' championships, shouldn't we be thinking more upmarket in publicity terms. Just take a peek at any other area/sport in this league. F1 Grand Prix for example and the others. Even the humble darts champs beats our heli champs for publicity and exposure. (TV .... Embassy ... et al)
When I heard at Aigen that the 2005 champs were to come to the UK, I thought of the terrific publicity opportunities for our industry and the UK, but anything at that level would require professional, (ie paid for) organisation.
Something of the ilk of Harvey Goldsmith perhaps who organised the Blenhem Palace Airshow which ran like a swiss watch, and as far as I could tell, before a maximum capacity crowd.
But on the same tack, Glen at the revitalised Kemble Airfield is no slouch when it comes to organising airshows !! I have it from him personally that all he required from HCGB was to take the proceeds of the 'gate' and the resultant publicity in whatever areas he could muster. (In fact he is still planning to hold a Helicopter Airshow to coincide with the last day of the championships .... I have promised to fly the 'freestyle' for him)
I see the old chestnut/excuse of insurance has appeared which is a diversion. For insurance simply talk money !!!
And as another aside .. shame on the Ozzie for his 'pom bashing' The World Championships are an 'open' event and if he/she thinks he's as good as or better than than the last 2002 event winner, just enter in 2005 and show us.
But to get back to the subject and to be constructive. Cannot we look at placing any future event in professional hands thereby reaping the publicity benefit for our sometimes hard pressed industry. Helicopter hardware, Avionics, Heli Sales, Heli Engineering, Training Schools, CAA and NATS presence. Then Government involvement, Banks, Insurance and Finance Houses ... oh dear the list is endless.
P Pruners will know my major interest is the freestyle flying which always attracts the public/spectator interest. And of course if a good public attendance can be achieved. the floodgates open for the non aviation business participation above.
So I ask the question. Is that what the HCGB want ? I suspect not and if the answer is a confirmed 'no' then the event will remain as it has always been. A small 'clubby' affair which few care about and gives rise to more comments from our 'pommie basher.'
Thanks for reading my contribution. Any personal comments to my e mail. See you around the 2005 and best wishes for the 2005 World Helicopter Championships and their organisation.
DennisK
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 593
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just so that the history is accurately recorded:
The campaign last winter to stop the "floats over water" change was actually successful because of this Forum. The HCGB magazine is published too infrequently to be fast enough to publicise such a campaign.
What in fact happened was that Jeremy James of HCGB wisely emailed members as soon as he heard of the Consultation document - and then a load of us fired things up on pprune. People like me got stats from the CAA for ditchings - and so it went on.
So well done to HCGB for emailing members - but well done to Rotorheads for giving us a widely read platform. If we had to rely on the HCGB website, the campaign would have failed.
The campaign last winter to stop the "floats over water" change was actually successful because of this Forum. The HCGB magazine is published too infrequently to be fast enough to publicise such a campaign.
What in fact happened was that Jeremy James of HCGB wisely emailed members as soon as he heard of the Consultation document - and then a load of us fired things up on pprune. People like me got stats from the CAA for ditchings - and so it went on.
So well done to HCGB for emailing members - but well done to Rotorheads for giving us a widely read platform. If we had to rely on the HCGB website, the campaign would have failed.
Fucum Lesgo
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Waterworld
Age: 66
Posts: 176
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Since everyone seems to be getting a litttle testy, here is a little ditty to lighten the proceedings.
A military cargo plane, flying over a populated area, suddenly loses power and starts to nose down. The pilot tries to pull up, but with all their cargo, the plane is too heavy. So he yells to the soldiers in back to throw things out to make the plane lighter. They throw out a pistol. "Throw out more!" shouts the pilot. So they throw out a rifle. "More!" he cries again. They heave out a missile, and the pilot regains control.
He pulls out of the dive and lands safely at an airport. They get into a jeep and drive off. Pretty soon they meet a boy on the side of the road who's crying. They ask him why he's crying and he says "A pistol hit me on the head!"
They drive more and meet another boy who's crying even harder. Again they ask why and the boy says, "A rifle hit me on the head!"
They apologize and keep driving. They meet a boy on the sidewalk who's laughing hysterically. They ask him, "Kid, what's so funny?" The boy replies, "I sneezed and a house blew up!"
Ho Hum
A military cargo plane, flying over a populated area, suddenly loses power and starts to nose down. The pilot tries to pull up, but with all their cargo, the plane is too heavy. So he yells to the soldiers in back to throw things out to make the plane lighter. They throw out a pistol. "Throw out more!" shouts the pilot. So they throw out a rifle. "More!" he cries again. They heave out a missile, and the pilot regains control.
He pulls out of the dive and lands safely at an airport. They get into a jeep and drive off. Pretty soon they meet a boy on the side of the road who's crying. They ask him why he's crying and he says "A pistol hit me on the head!"
They drive more and meet another boy who's crying even harder. Again they ask why and the boy says, "A rifle hit me on the head!"
They apologize and keep driving. They meet a boy on the sidewalk who's laughing hysterically. They ask him, "Kid, what's so funny?" The boy replies, "I sneezed and a house blew up!"
Ho Hum
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What a farce this is! In this thread and others there are plenty of post slagging me off, almost by name. I reply with a gentle conciliatory email naming no one and it gets deleted. Heliport obviously has an axe to grind and is not interested in another point of view. Sounds like Pprune is just like HCGB, if you are liked then you are fine otherwise shut up, so I will.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 5,197
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CountryMember
” Sounds like Pprune is just like HCGB, if you are liked then you are fine otherwise shut up, so I will.”
Don't be so silly. You found this thread two days after we'd reached the ‘Enough is enough’ point about HCGB internal politics. The decision applied to everyone.
In the post I deleted, you said you’ve been shunned by the club for reasons connected with your private life. If it's any comfort, you're welcome here. Rotorheads isn’t a private club so we take all-comers and, as as anonymous forum, know nothing about contributors, their characters or private lives.
The decision is final: No more bandwidth will be used to discuss the internal politics of the HCGB.
Heliport
Edit: Check your PM box.
” Sounds like Pprune is just like HCGB, if you are liked then you are fine otherwise shut up, so I will.”
Don't be so silly. You found this thread two days after we'd reached the ‘Enough is enough’ point about HCGB internal politics. The decision applied to everyone.
In the post I deleted, you said you’ve been shunned by the club for reasons connected with your private life. If it's any comfort, you're welcome here. Rotorheads isn’t a private club so we take all-comers and, as as anonymous forum, know nothing about contributors, their characters or private lives.
The decision is final: No more bandwidth will be used to discuss the internal politics of the HCGB.
Heliport
Edit: Check your PM box.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: UK
Age: 64
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lets all get back on thread.
If the the championships are being held
1. Where ?
2. When ?
3. Who is organising them ?
4. How can we make them an event to be proud of ?
5. How can we help?
The helicopter community needs events that make Helicopters more accepted. The Image of Search and Rescue is great, but many people operate near small communities who put up with us. Anything that can help the helicopter be accepted, especially in the UK is important.
If the the championships are being held
1. Where ?
2. When ?
3. Who is organising them ?
4. How can we make them an event to be proud of ?
5. How can we help?
The helicopter community needs events that make Helicopters more accepted. The Image of Search and Rescue is great, but many people operate near small communities who put up with us. Anything that can help the helicopter be accepted, especially in the UK is important.