BCAR Very Light Helicopters
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Appreciate the replies,
At first look I couldn't see any reason why not either.
I guess more research is required.
Dave, the helicycle is certified in the experimental category but the info from Eagle R&D says the design meets the full FAA certification requirements, which is why its reputed to be the best kit helicopter yet.
Getting around the probable 6-figure cost to get our CAA to approve is a challenge though,
Thanks again,
sw
At first look I couldn't see any reason why not either.
I guess more research is required.
Dave, the helicycle is certified in the experimental category but the info from Eagle R&D says the design meets the full FAA certification requirements, which is why its reputed to be the best kit helicopter yet.
Getting around the probable 6-figure cost to get our CAA to approve is a challenge though,
Thanks again,
sw
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swsw,
The Helicycle is a very attractive little helicopter and Schramm had certainly acquired a lot of knowledge about recreational rotorcraft. However the, 'full FAA certification' statement might be questionable. Others on this forum, particularly Nick Lappos, are probably able to comment on the subject of FAA certification.
When I saw it, he was using a Rotax snowmobile engine. Rotax state that its engines, including the certified 914, are not to be used on rotorcraft. The current APU turbine may not be certifiable in this application.
Dave J.
The Helicycle is a very attractive little helicopter and Schramm had certainly acquired a lot of knowledge about recreational rotorcraft. However the, 'full FAA certification' statement might be questionable. Others on this forum, particularly Nick Lappos, are probably able to comment on the subject of FAA certification.
When I saw it, he was using a Rotax snowmobile engine. Rotax state that its engines, including the certified 914, are not to be used on rotorcraft. The current APU turbine may not be certifiable in this application.
Dave J.
My God! You'll get your legs broken with a comment like that on this forum! Pilots, expensive...don't be ridiculous! 
Seriously, though, the test pilots are not the expensive bit. The CAA's fees are high generally, but they are extremely high if your technical documentation is not in order. If you are going to get a kit helicopter through the UK regs, it really needs to have been designed with that objective in mind in order for it to be financially viable. If not you face paying to have the whole helicopter analysed and tested, both on the ground and in the air, certification/approval reports generated and then have the CAA pick over your work at over £100/man-hr.
For this reason I would be suprised if the helicycle or the safari ever managed to get a permit in the UK.
Hope this helps
CRAN
Seriously, though, the test pilots are not the expensive bit. The CAA's fees are high generally, but they are extremely high if your technical documentation is not in order. If you are going to get a kit helicopter through the UK regs, it really needs to have been designed with that objective in mind in order for it to be financially viable. If not you face paying to have the whole helicopter analysed and tested, both on the ground and in the air, certification/approval reports generated and then have the CAA pick over your work at over £100/man-hr.
For this reason I would be suprised if the helicycle or the safari ever managed to get a permit in the UK.
Hope this helps
CRAN
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nigelf wrote:
Check out the dealer page on their site. It shows a UK dealer - in fact an individual who is part-way through a build. He's going for a permit, and told me "The permit to be honest is anyone's guess I have not really pushed yet to
see the outcome. One of their senior surveyors has looked at the build and
was fairly impressed with the quality of the helicopter but he still has his
bosses above him to convince."
The Masquito is also a very interesting prospect, but going nowhere right now. I had this from John Peascod:
"UK CAA certification of our helicopter has been essentially halted since
the summer of 2002. Although they haven't given us anything in writing, the
CAA has told us that unless we obtain an official "Design Organisation
Authority" (D.O.A.) they will not look at our certification dossier any
further. A DOA can be compared to an ISO 9001 for aeronautical design.
Masquito has been primarily funded by my family and one other partner for
the 8 years of its' existance, but we came to the stage that further
funding was no longer possible.
Two of the founding partners (the brothers Masschelein) who were
responsible for the development of the helicopter resigned their positions
as directors in September 2003. They were the only ones who had not
invested any of their money in Masquito. They started a new company to
build a fixed wing aircraft and left the rest of us to solve Masquito's
financial problems.........Unfortunately at this time, we have no idea when
the M80 might be able to obtain its' "Permit to Fly" in the U.K. or other
countries. We are now looking for a suitable partner to continue the
helicopter project, but it won't be an easy task.
Because of Masquito's very high debt, the rest of us decided to spend our
resources on developing and testing a new 2.6 liter engine suitable for
fixed wing aircraft and helicopters such as the Masquito prototype. For the
development and commercialisation of this modern technology aircraft engine
we have set up a new company. The website (www.ulpower.com) has just been
started, but the site will be expanded with more information as ground and
flight testing progress. The helicopter is going to need a powerful, light
weight and reliable engine anyway, so the helicopter's future will depend
on our engine's successful introduction into other aircraft first."
I quite like the look and spec of the CHR Safari, and its gross weight is 680 KG, and it uses the O-320 or O-360 Engine,
see the outcome. One of their senior surveyors has looked at the build and
was fairly impressed with the quality of the helicopter but he still has his
bosses above him to convince."
The Masquito is also a very interesting prospect, but going nowhere right now. I had this from John Peascod:
"UK CAA certification of our helicopter has been essentially halted since
the summer of 2002. Although they haven't given us anything in writing, the
CAA has told us that unless we obtain an official "Design Organisation
Authority" (D.O.A.) they will not look at our certification dossier any
further. A DOA can be compared to an ISO 9001 for aeronautical design.
Masquito has been primarily funded by my family and one other partner for
the 8 years of its' existance, but we came to the stage that further
funding was no longer possible.
Two of the founding partners (the brothers Masschelein) who were
responsible for the development of the helicopter resigned their positions
as directors in September 2003. They were the only ones who had not
invested any of their money in Masquito. They started a new company to
build a fixed wing aircraft and left the rest of us to solve Masquito's
financial problems.........Unfortunately at this time, we have no idea when
the M80 might be able to obtain its' "Permit to Fly" in the U.K. or other
countries. We are now looking for a suitable partner to continue the
helicopter project, but it won't be an easy task.
Because of Masquito's very high debt, the rest of us decided to spend our
resources on developing and testing a new 2.6 liter engine suitable for
fixed wing aircraft and helicopters such as the Masquito prototype. For the
development and commercialisation of this modern technology aircraft engine
we have set up a new company. The website (www.ulpower.com) has just been
started, but the site will be expanded with more information as ground and
flight testing progress. The helicopter is going to need a powerful, light
weight and reliable engine anyway, so the helicopter's future will depend
on our engine's successful introduction into other aircraft first."
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certification
To Cran and others,
You might consider doing certification in the U.S. because the FAA does not charge for their time. At least they did'nt charge anything back in 1976 when I was working with them.
Then the U.S. Type certificate would be good worldwide with minor effort, I would guess.
You might consider doing certification in the U.S. because the FAA does not charge for their time. At least they did'nt charge anything back in 1976 when I was working with them.
Then the U.S. Type certificate would be good worldwide with minor effort, I would guess.
