Bell 214
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Hey HF - Lets highjack the thread and make it a 214 thread, not just the ST 
Here is a listing from Helicas of the 214Bs that are out there.
Black Tusk (Canada) - 2
Central Copters (USA) - 1 (Crashed recently)
East West Transportation (Canada) - 1
Heli Korea - 4
Helimax Aviation - 2
Helitrans Norway - 2
Hongik Air Service (Korea) - 2
Iranian Government - 3
McDermott Aviation - 3
Paramount Helicopters USA - 1
Payam Aviation Iran - 1
Philippine Air Force - 1
SAF Helicopters FRANCE - 1
Tongil Air Systems KOREA - 1
Transwest Helicopters CANADA - 3
UAE Air Force - 4
Unknown KOREA - 3
Ventura County Sheriff - 1
Here is a listing from Helicas of the 214Bs that are out there.
Black Tusk (Canada) - 2
Central Copters (USA) - 1 (Crashed recently)
East West Transportation (Canada) - 1
Heli Korea - 4
Helimax Aviation - 2
Helitrans Norway - 2
Hongik Air Service (Korea) - 2
Iranian Government - 3
McDermott Aviation - 3
Paramount Helicopters USA - 1
Payam Aviation Iran - 1
Philippine Air Force - 1
SAF Helicopters FRANCE - 1
Tongil Air Systems KOREA - 1
Transwest Helicopters CANADA - 3
UAE Air Force - 4
Unknown KOREA - 3
Ventura County Sheriff - 1
Speechless Two:
Fascinated to read:
...as I believe something very, very similar happened in the mid-80s to one of the Royal Oman Police Air Wing aircraft (also landed safely!). Does anyone have any further details?
Fascinated to read:
Basically the collective system fractured with a hell of a bang at a height of 4000 ft. and it stabilised itself at a low rate of descent at best climb speed with a disconcerting floppy collective and was successfully ditched using only the cyclic.
PR: want to change to ST & B models as requested - good suggestion - but how? Cannot seem to find an option to edit topic, though I seem to remember others achieving same. Anybody? Bueler?
How similar are the ST & B models? - I guess Lu will know this one. Same trannie, blades, tail etc, or are they significantly different Lu?
Giovanni: link works beaut now, thanks.
Thud: if you check that link, the accident report refers to the Omani failure.
Thread title changed.
Heliport
How similar are the ST & B models? - I guess Lu will know this one. Same trannie, blades, tail etc, or are they significantly different Lu?
Giovanni: link works beaut now, thanks.
Thud: if you check that link, the accident report refers to the Omani failure.
Thread title changed.
Heliport
Helmet fire:
Thankyou for the info - I hadn't realised it happened while I was still in Oman. I do remember the 214ST coming out on its original sales-team visit, when we were all given a cabbie in-between rehearsals for one of the National Day flypasts. Have a snapshot somewhere at home of me at the controls, with the cleanest-looking pair of (new) flying gloves I was ever issued. It was the first new aircraft I'd ever sat in - pleasant change from the usual ageing cockpit to which I'd been used.
The ROPAW fellas were a good bunch, always happy to share their fuddle at the desert-patrol camps we'd jointly operate from time to time.
Thankyou for the info - I hadn't realised it happened while I was still in Oman. I do remember the 214ST coming out on its original sales-team visit, when we were all given a cabbie in-between rehearsals for one of the National Day flypasts. Have a snapshot somewhere at home of me at the controls, with the cleanest-looking pair of (new) flying gloves I was ever issued. It was the first new aircraft I'd ever sat in - pleasant change from the usual ageing cockpit to which I'd been used.
The ROPAW fellas were a good bunch, always happy to share their fuddle at the desert-patrol camps we'd jointly operate from time to time.
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214 ST
I was fortunate to fly several thousand hours in the ST on Offshore and VVIP work as both line pilot and TRE/IRE. I thought it was a great helicopter. It was faster, had better range, and was more economical than the 332L. It was also more reliable than the 332L, as Bristows discovered. It had a great in flight blade tracking device whereby the pilot could adjust the length of one pitch rod in flight to achieve the lowest vibration level. They are stil being used in Saudi for King Fahd (2), and the Royal Oman police had 6 when I was there (now 4).
Its drawback was a small boot, and the centre passengers were a fair way from the doors and a view. We carried 18 pax on sectors under 100 nm.
It had a great liferaft deployment system, where the pilot could release the liferaft in the roof, which fell down outside the doors, and automatically inflated.
It had 2 big. low stressed cool running GE 700 engines. Single engine performance was good for the late 80's & 90's, but not Cat A.
It had a Vne in auto of 100 kts, which made life interesting when cruising at 130 kts, and entering auto at that speed was dangerous. I think it was a combination of C of G, sudden change of airflow on the rear stabiliser, and maybe some retreating blade stall, but it was almost uncontrollable above auto Vne. I think this may have caused the 2 fatal crashes Evergreen had in the late 80's.
It was one of Bell's big mistakes in not doing some R & D. and developing it further (4 blades etc).
With only 2 barn door size blades rotating fairly slowly, the autopilot had to work hard. At altitudes above 8000 ft, we often had either a dutch roll or an undamped fugoid.
It was always dual pilot IFR due to the weight category, but had all the equipment for and was certainly capable of SPIFR.
I throughly enjoyed my time on it.
And yes, we were a good bunch of fellas in the desert thud & blunder.
Hope this helps.
katfish
Its drawback was a small boot, and the centre passengers were a fair way from the doors and a view. We carried 18 pax on sectors under 100 nm.
It had a great liferaft deployment system, where the pilot could release the liferaft in the roof, which fell down outside the doors, and automatically inflated.
It had 2 big. low stressed cool running GE 700 engines. Single engine performance was good for the late 80's & 90's, but not Cat A.
It had a Vne in auto of 100 kts, which made life interesting when cruising at 130 kts, and entering auto at that speed was dangerous. I think it was a combination of C of G, sudden change of airflow on the rear stabiliser, and maybe some retreating blade stall, but it was almost uncontrollable above auto Vne. I think this may have caused the 2 fatal crashes Evergreen had in the late 80's.
It was one of Bell's big mistakes in not doing some R & D. and developing it further (4 blades etc).
With only 2 barn door size blades rotating fairly slowly, the autopilot had to work hard. At altitudes above 8000 ft, we often had either a dutch roll or an undamped fugoid.
It was always dual pilot IFR due to the weight category, but had all the equipment for and was certainly capable of SPIFR.
I throughly enjoyed my time on it.
And yes, we were a good bunch of fellas in the desert thud & blunder.
Hope this helps.
katfish
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Sorry but I can't help.
To: helmet fire
I never had any experience on the ST or other later models. I spent one solid month monitoring the maintenance on both the 214 and the AH-1J. After that I returned to the home office and managed the maintenance on all of the helicopters in the IIA Aviation program. I remained on the program for about another year and the MMH/FH never improved. (On either aircraft).
Note: If you ever want to question why you fly helicopters there is a small inspection panel on the 214 rear cabin wall that allows you to see the transmission. Observe the trannie in flight. The trannie will be jumping up and down (2" or so). This provides the smooth ride on the 214 but it is beating the hell out of the dynamic system.
Based on my experience on the job I found that on even the latest designs (Bell) they used parts from other designs. If the part on the original design had certain faults those same parts would exhibit the same faults on the new application. So I can only assume from that the 214 parts that were used on the 214-ST and the B models had the same problems. The worst of which was the magnetization of the mast. If you fly any Bell product with either an elastomeric teeter bearing or a soft in-plane rotor system have your LAME/A&P use a gaussimiter to check the level of magnetization on the mast. Hold the instrument near the Jesus Nut. Then, check the overhaul manual for the level of magnetization that is acceptable after a part has passed through a Magna Flux ™ machine.
How similar are the ST & B models? - I guess Lu will know this one. Same trannie, blades, tail etc, or are they significantly different Lu?
Note: If you ever want to question why you fly helicopters there is a small inspection panel on the 214 rear cabin wall that allows you to see the transmission. Observe the trannie in flight. The trannie will be jumping up and down (2" or so). This provides the smooth ride on the 214 but it is beating the hell out of the dynamic system.
Based on my experience on the job I found that on even the latest designs (Bell) they used parts from other designs. If the part on the original design had certain faults those same parts would exhibit the same faults on the new application. So I can only assume from that the 214 parts that were used on the 214-ST and the B models had the same problems. The worst of which was the magnetization of the mast. If you fly any Bell product with either an elastomeric teeter bearing or a soft in-plane rotor system have your LAME/A&P use a gaussimiter to check the level of magnetization on the mast. Hold the instrument near the Jesus Nut. Then, check the overhaul manual for the level of magnetization that is acceptable after a part has passed through a Magna Flux ™ machine.
Last edited by Lu Zuckerman; 4th Nov 2004 at 14:53.
Thanks guys enjoyed the reading.
Seems to be a bit of polarity in opinion - some say it is a disaster, some say it is fine. I am intrigued in the comment that it is cheaper and more reliable than the 332L. I am still wondering why it is disappearing - is the two bladed system such a problem?
Also does any one know if it is the same blade and SCAS systems as the 214B?
Has anyone out there done external lifting with one? And the fire fighting one in "rotorheads at work", anyone out there flown one on the fires?
Seems to be a bit of polarity in opinion - some say it is a disaster, some say it is fine. I am intrigued in the comment that it is cheaper and more reliable than the 332L. I am still wondering why it is disappearing - is the two bladed system such a problem?
Also does any one know if it is the same blade and SCAS systems as the 214B?
Has anyone out there done external lifting with one? And the fire fighting one in "rotorheads at work", anyone out there flown one on the fires?
helmet fire,
My father has spent the past 19 years or so, working on 214STs from the N Sea to the Middle East and never stops raving on about them. The only grumble he seems to have is the availability of spares, especially engines.
Speechless Two,
My father has a soft spot for 'FN' as he was one of the individuals who spent several weeks at LGW stripping it down and rebuilding it, after the ditching incident in May 1986.
My father has spent the past 19 years or so, working on 214STs from the N Sea to the Middle East and never stops raving on about them. The only grumble he seems to have is the availability of spares, especially engines.
Speechless Two,
My father has a soft spot for 'FN' as he was one of the individuals who spent several weeks at LGW stripping it down and rebuilding it, after the ditching incident in May 1986.
Phoenix,
Lovely photos that tell the story very well. I have to ask - what's the fella in photo BT017 (the one with the 206 in the background) doing with that ladder under the rotor disc?
Lovely photos that tell the story very well. I have to ask - what's the fella in photo BT017 (the one with the 206 in the background) doing with that ladder under the rotor disc?
The 214 ST is my second favorite Helo after the Blackhawk and nothing compares to them, worked on ST's for about 6 years on and off, they are a beast, will hover and fly away on one engine at 35oC oat at gross weight 17500lbs and i've seen it done , try and do that in a S Puma , thats why the Saudi royal flight still use them, they will fly further, faster using less fuel,with the same payload as a S Puma, but they do have there problems the elec system is a nightmare , 2 batteries and approx 40 relays to start an engine! but the engines are just about indestructable the CT7 is oncondition o/haul and bristows had one that stayed in an airframe about 6000 hrs , the Makila in an L2 SuperPuma is lucky to make o/haul at 2500hrs, I worked on the ST in Australia and Europe and the 214B in europe and the mid east the Iranian military still have over 150 214 A/C models still in use , i saw quite alot of them flying when i was in Iran last year. I've worked on Blackhawks ,214ST's , S61's and Super Pumas and like them in that order.
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Thud - Might be an optical illusion as they were using it to check over the tailrotor. Will have a look at some of the others I have and make sure he wasnt carrying it under the disk.
By the way love the paint scheme on your EC135s.
By the way love the paint scheme on your EC135s.
Helmet fire, the CT7-2A in the ST is the same engine as in the UH 60-L exept for start fuel nozzles , shrouded fuel lines for civil cert. and elec starters, the T-700 with air starters spin up quicker than the CT7 and don't need the start fuel nozzles.
The T700/CT7 series is fitted in UH60,SH60, AH64,EH101,AH1 W/Z,SH2G,NH90,214ST,UH1 Y, and fitted to some 205's etc .it is the most fitted engine in Helicopters in the world after Allison 250's and russian stuff.
I've worked on Arriel,Allison 250,PT6 twin pac, T53, T55, CT58, Turmo,Makila, and CT7/T700 and the CT7/T700 is by far miles ahead of the others, the only one close is the new RRTM 322, in the NH90,EH101 and UK AH64's.
The T700/CT7 series is fitted in UH60,SH60, AH64,EH101,AH1 W/Z,SH2G,NH90,214ST,UH1 Y, and fitted to some 205's etc .it is the most fitted engine in Helicopters in the world after Allison 250's and russian stuff.
I've worked on Arriel,Allison 250,PT6 twin pac, T53, T55, CT58, Turmo,Makila, and CT7/T700 and the CT7/T700 is by far miles ahead of the others, the only one close is the new RRTM 322, in the NH90,EH101 and UK AH64's.
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Thud_and_Blunder..... the machine was just shutting down for noon maintenance... so we were just getting ready to look it over ... thats why the ladder was out 
(im the 2nd person in that picture)
(im the 2nd person in that picture)
Helmet fire, the electric start is a big pain in the arse on the ST ,2xbloody heavy batteries at approx 50 kg ea ,a large elec starter on each eng, which is only a starter and the elec nightmare with 40 + relays to start, you only get three attempts to start an ST ,if you stuff it up then your stuck as the batteries give 40 volt during start and ext power is only 28 so you are just about guaranteed a long hot start on the first eng!!
APU's are far suppiror, you have full AC power ,Hyd power, and below 25oC you can do a dual engine start , and the whole APU system only weighs slightly more in a Blackhawk than the elec start system in a ST, it also allows your Helo to be self sufficient , with minimal GSE.
APU's are far suppiror, you have full AC power ,Hyd power, and below 25oC you can do a dual engine start , and the whole APU system only weighs slightly more in a Blackhawk than the elec start system in a ST, it also allows your Helo to be self sufficient , with minimal GSE.