Air Ambulance rescue (Now incl post by the Paramedic - 9/11)
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Helmet Fire
You gotta allow for the different culture in England where flying is a big deal and that's before you do anything with your helo.
TC and SS were in the military and my hunch is Volerider was as well. In England the culture is only ex military pilots are up to doing challenging flying, onshore anways. That's why most all police pilots in England were in the military before.
I saw from a post you made yesterday you fly in Australia. That's more like Canada and pilots are on their own in challenging situations and get used to making risk assessments most days.
Beats me why they're shooting at you. I can't see how your saying any different than them except you're saying it in a more 'No big deal, make a risk assessment and Go/No go' way and their saying it in a more formalized military way. You all end up in the same place but take a different route.
You gotta allow for the different culture in England where flying is a big deal and that's before you do anything with your helo.
TC and SS were in the military and my hunch is Volerider was as well. In England the culture is only ex military pilots are up to doing challenging flying, onshore anways. That's why most all police pilots in England were in the military before.
I saw from a post you made yesterday you fly in Australia. That's more like Canada and pilots are on their own in challenging situations and get used to making risk assessments most days.
Beats me why they're shooting at you. I can't see how your saying any different than them except you're saying it in a more 'No big deal, make a risk assessment and Go/No go' way and their saying it in a more formalized military way. You all end up in the same place but take a different route.
Bronx, I hope you are right - thanks.
Volrider; a discussion on risk assesment is now a slanging match? Oh thats right, I comment on risk assesment, you call me slow and dim. I ask about your comments on CRM and you call me gung ho and lucky to be licenced. I explain the formal concepts of the risk formula application and you call me immature and lost.
...and that is three ignores: YOUR'E OUT.
Volrider; a discussion on risk assesment is now a slanging match? Oh thats right, I comment on risk assesment, you call me slow and dim. I ask about your comments on CRM and you call me gung ho and lucky to be licenced. I explain the formal concepts of the risk formula application and you call me immature and lost.
...and that is three ignores: YOUR'E OUT.
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Strike One ...Strike Two.... Strike Three...
Volrider misses ..the pain shows...
The ref points to the locker room
Volrider is cheered by the faithful support from the intellegent audience
The crowd and Volrider realise that the big fish has been landed
Volrider misses ..the pain shows...
The ref points to the locker room
Volrider is cheered by the faithful support from the intellegent audience
The crowd and Volrider realise that the big fish has been landed
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why doesnt everyone just get on with the job of flying helos and stop bitching between each other? this was a job well done, if your instructor asked you to hover at 5 foot next to the helipad you wouldnt have thought nothing of it. so why do things change when theres a car below you? engine/tail rotor failures are very few and far between, so lets chance it and save a guys life.
huntnhound if you have nothing to contribute that supports pilots and crew of helicopters who have probably spent the price of your house on training themselves to be the proffesionals that they are, its easy dont bother our forum again! pprune- proffesional pilots rumour network. not any old tom dick or harry who wants to slag the air ambulance service off!
aa/sar/police crews do a good job so dont knock it.
ps flying lawyer im on my last chance for speed cameras, do you fancy representing me when i get my next one?
huntnhound if you have nothing to contribute that supports pilots and crew of helicopters who have probably spent the price of your house on training themselves to be the proffesionals that they are, its easy dont bother our forum again! pprune- proffesional pilots rumour network. not any old tom dick or harry who wants to slag the air ambulance service off!
aa/sar/police crews do a good job so dont knock it.
ps flying lawyer im on my last chance for speed cameras, do you fancy representing me when i get my next one?
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huntnhound if you have nothing to contribute that supports pilots and crew of helicopters who have probably spent the price of your house on training themselves to be the proffesionals that they are, its easy dont bother our forum again! pprune- proffesional pilots rumour network. not any old tom dick or harry who wants to slag the air ambulance service off!
ps flying lawyer im on my last chance for speed cameras, do you fancy representing me when i get my next one?
Either way I dont wont to set foot in your aircraft or your car.
Its double standards like that that make me
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So clearly you have one set of your own rules you apply to flying...and another you apply to driving.
Either way I dont wont to set foot in your aircraft or your car.
Its double standards like that that make me
Either way I dont wont to set foot in your aircraft or your car.
Its double standards like that that make me
.So, if pilots break speed limits when driving, it follows that they disregard aviation safety regulations when flying?
What utter nonsense!
If you won't set foot in a car with drivers who break speed limits, that rules out most of the drivers in the country.
I make no comment about whose loss and whose gain that's likely to be.
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Huntnhound - I have been away from this site for a week now - pop back and notice this string still near the top, due mainly to you and your inability to LET IT GO ! For Gods sake just accept you may be an irritant to people, or even wrong on the odd point. Do what you said you were about to do during the first few pages here, and sign off!!!
I'm sure you must be getting off by your constant sniping, and obvious irritation at a simply well done job. A simple thread gone crazy!!!
If you were a dog you would of had a one way trip to the vets by now!
Verdict - Distemper!!!
I'm sure you must be getting off by your constant sniping, and obvious irritation at a simply well done job. A simple thread gone crazy!!!
If you were a dog you would of had a one way trip to the vets by now!
Verdict - Distemper!!!
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Flying Lawyer
Trouble is after multiple years dealing with road accidents....every fatality was one too many, and, trust me, the experience is not at all pleasant.
Every fatal driving collision was as a direct result of one party going excessively fast..Rule breaking if you like.
Exhemsdog
There have been a plethora of worthy contributions on all sides of the arguement. If my starting this thread has upset some people like you, then tough. If any of my comments had been improper, or indeed those of any other contrubitors, then I am sure I would have moderated out before now. I did "let it go" several times, but I will defend my corner -from my perspective- and rightly so.
If you won't set foot in a car with drivers who break speed limits, that rules out most of the drivers in the country.
Every fatal driving collision was as a direct result of one party going excessively fast..Rule breaking if you like.
Exhemsdog
There have been a plethora of worthy contributions on all sides of the arguement. If my starting this thread has upset some people like you, then tough. If any of my comments had been improper, or indeed those of any other contrubitors, then I am sure I would have moderated out before now. I did "let it go" several times, but I will defend my corner -from my perspective- and rightly so.
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Huntnhound
You really are a full scale turkey - sure there is a plethora of worthy contributions - mostly trying to bat you down or counter your pathetic efforts at defending your corner - remember you started this sniping!!!
God help anyone who is faced with you at the side of the road - NEVER wrong only pretends to be on the odd ocasion - you typify what most peoples view of todays modern police force is all about.
Maybe one day you will get your come upance. Sadam Husain defended his corner till the bitter end.............
You really are a full scale turkey - sure there is a plethora of worthy contributions - mostly trying to bat you down or counter your pathetic efforts at defending your corner - remember you started this sniping!!!
God help anyone who is faced with you at the side of the road - NEVER wrong only pretends to be on the odd ocasion - you typify what most peoples view of todays modern police force is all about.
Maybe one day you will get your come upance. Sadam Husain defended his corner till the bitter end.............
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I can take the insults all day mate.
But I will say if you are the pilot, and your flight ops inspector is sitting in the back seat as part of his inspection of your outfit,
would you do the same sort of task if the circumstances presented themselves?
But I will say if you are the pilot, and your flight ops inspector is sitting in the back seat as part of his inspection of your outfit,
would you do the same sort of task if the circumstances presented themselves?
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huntnhound
Your question implies you think the crew was in some way wrong to rescue the man.
(Why else would it matter if there was or wasn't a Flight Ops Inspector in the back?)
It was obvious from your first and other early posts that you were critical of the crew, but you then went through a stage of suggesting you were only raising issues for discussion.
You've danced around it long enough.
What exactly do you think?
Heliport
Your question implies you think the crew was in some way wrong to rescue the man.
(Why else would it matter if there was or wasn't a Flight Ops Inspector in the back?)
It was obvious from your first and other early posts that you were critical of the crew, but you then went through a stage of suggesting you were only raising issues for discussion.
You've danced around it long enough.
What exactly do you think?
Heliport
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Well said Heliport - spot on!
Come on Huntnhound - say what you've been thinking since the start - you fine, law abiding, policeman you - after all isn't honesty your watchword.
As for taking insults all day long - have you never stopped to think why.... Don't see many people suporting your views here
Still we are all individuals........................
Come on Huntnhound - say what you've been thinking since the start - you fine, law abiding, policeman you - after all isn't honesty your watchword.
As for taking insults all day long - have you never stopped to think why.... Don't see many people suporting your views here
Still we are all individuals........................
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Well I like the blue...
I have always maintained that if I was in a crew that had a life threatening situation, and the deployment of a helicopter was that guy or girls last chance on earth, I would ask the pilot if it could be done.
What is arguable...and it has been elsewhere here.. is was this the case with this river and with this chap on the roof?
So if you want a definative answer on this occasion then probably no.
From a CRM point of view it has been intresting reading all the language patterns used by some of the participants. I always thought most pilots to be die hard rule followers. Clearly not the case.
I am glad I started this thread. I have learnt considerably.
I have always maintained that if I was in a crew that had a life threatening situation, and the deployment of a helicopter was that guy or girls last chance on earth, I would ask the pilot if it could be done.
What is arguable...and it has been elsewhere here.. is was this the case with this river and with this chap on the roof?
So if you want a definative answer on this occasion then probably no.
From a CRM point of view it has been intresting reading all the language patterns used by some of the participants. I always thought most pilots to be die hard rule followers. Clearly not the case.
I am glad I started this thread. I have learnt considerably.
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H&H....And thats what this wonderful forum is all about......Learning, discussing, complaining, b***hin' and most of all understanding our great and fulfilling profession................................well done!
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Huntnhound
You say you've "learnt considerably" with a
Why the sarcasm with the roll of the eyes?
I think you're the only one who's said the crew shouldn't have done it.
The pilots here have supported what the crew did, and there are a whole bunch of very experienced guys amongst them.
They ain't changed your mind so it don't look like you learned much from them.
Helipolarbear is right.
This forum is a swell place to learn from other guys, the finest bunch of experienced pilots you could find in one place anywhere in the world as far as I know.
But we gotta keep an open mind and be prepared to learn or we learn nothing.
You say you've "learnt considerably" with a
Why the sarcasm with the roll of the eyes?
I think you're the only one who's said the crew shouldn't have done it.
The pilots here have supported what the crew did, and there are a whole bunch of very experienced guys amongst them.
They ain't changed your mind so it don't look like you learned much from them.
Helipolarbear is right.
This forum is a swell place to learn from other guys, the finest bunch of experienced pilots you could find in one place anywhere in the world as far as I know.
But we gotta keep an open mind and be prepared to learn or we learn nothing.
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Hi Everyone
I felt that I had to Post a few comments reguarding this topic, I am the paramedic who was involved in this rescue.
Firstly we know we are not search and rescue, we never claim to be, our primary role is as a Trauma team mainly dealing with RTA's and major trauma but we do get called to all sorts of incidents. In Thirteen years of working as a Paramedic all to often I have had to stand there helpless and watch someone die because i was unable to do anything ie:- burn to death in a car or house fire, I have had children die in my arms and loads of other jobs which are all greatly unpleasent experiences.
Now I know all this is part of the job we do but when we do save a life it makes us remember just why we do this job. We all try to do the best we can with the tools and skills we have at the time. I would much rather look back on a job and say we did everything we could rather than, if only we had done this that person might still be alive. At the end of the day we are professionals and we as a team know what we are capable of doing and what we are not.
Hopefully I will never find myself in that kind of situation again but if I did would I do the the same again? Dam right I would! and I know any one of my colleagues be it a pilot,doctor or paramedic would do everything in their power to save a life as long as they were sure there they had taken all the risks into account and made the decision as a team as we did when we lifted this guy out of the river.
Thanks again for all the support.
As you've seen, support for the crew's decision has been almost unanimous.
Thanks for posting, and congrats again on a job well done.
Heliport
I felt that I had to Post a few comments reguarding this topic, I am the paramedic who was involved in this rescue.
Firstly we know we are not search and rescue, we never claim to be, our primary role is as a Trauma team mainly dealing with RTA's and major trauma but we do get called to all sorts of incidents. In Thirteen years of working as a Paramedic all to often I have had to stand there helpless and watch someone die because i was unable to do anything ie:- burn to death in a car or house fire, I have had children die in my arms and loads of other jobs which are all greatly unpleasent experiences.
Now I know all this is part of the job we do but when we do save a life it makes us remember just why we do this job. We all try to do the best we can with the tools and skills we have at the time. I would much rather look back on a job and say we did everything we could rather than, if only we had done this that person might still be alive. At the end of the day we are professionals and we as a team know what we are capable of doing and what we are not.
Hopefully I will never find myself in that kind of situation again but if I did would I do the the same again? Dam right I would! and I know any one of my colleagues be it a pilot,doctor or paramedic would do everything in their power to save a life as long as they were sure there they had taken all the risks into account and made the decision as a team as we did when we lifted this guy out of the river.
Thanks again for all the support.
As you've seen, support for the crew's decision has been almost unanimous.
Thanks for posting, and congrats again on a job well done.
Heliport
BRAVO cherrypicker.
Great job, professionally executed. It is a credit to both you and your profession.
As an aside, I am interested because I have worked for a similar organisation in the past ie the majority of work is secondary transfer - and a safety officer made the case for the wearing of a secumar vest with an inflatable life jacket collar on all flights wether or not the expectation was for flight over water. The vest also included flares, a PLB and a signalling mirror and was strongly resisted by management until we had a similar situation that did not actually eventuate into a rescue. Will this rescue ignite a similar case for you guys? Are you considering anything like that?
Great job, professionally executed. It is a credit to both you and your profession.
As an aside, I am interested because I have worked for a similar organisation in the past ie the majority of work is secondary transfer - and a safety officer made the case for the wearing of a secumar vest with an inflatable life jacket collar on all flights wether or not the expectation was for flight over water. The vest also included flares, a PLB and a signalling mirror and was strongly resisted by management until we had a similar situation that did not actually eventuate into a rescue. Will this rescue ignite a similar case for you guys? Are you considering anything like that?