Occupational injuries
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Occupational injuries
Hi all,
I've been flying for a couple of years, during which time I have amassed a whooping 200 hours, all R22. Recently I've started to have leg problems which may or may not be associated with the
R22s extremely comfortable 'Lazyboy' like seating.
This type of thing has to be common among helicopter pilots. Do any of you guys and gals suffer needlessly at the hands of not so comfy heli design, or just what sitting in one restricted posture for hours on end will do to the body?
Note: Absence of drink holder in cockpit does not constitute an occupational hazard.
I've been flying for a couple of years, during which time I have amassed a whooping 200 hours, all R22. Recently I've started to have leg problems which may or may not be associated with the
R22s extremely comfortable 'Lazyboy' like seating.
This type of thing has to be common among helicopter pilots. Do any of you guys and gals suffer needlessly at the hands of not so comfy heli design, or just what sitting in one restricted posture for hours on end will do to the body?
Note: Absence of drink holder in cockpit does not constitute an occupational hazard.
Where to start? I am a tall person, so people with duck's disease* will not have these problems.
Huey: hunched down to left to reach collective, head tilted up to see over panel, bounced up and down at 2 per rev = back and neck problems, specially if you wear a helmet.
Sore knuckles from trying to point something out to Bloggs and hitting the window, which is too close.
R22 - instructor's side, get a permanent glitch in the left leg muscle, holding it away from the collective. Was tempted to make a foam rubber block with a velcro strap to wrap around my left knee and prop it against the window frame for nav trips. Also get bruise in thumb from pressing that skinny little pointy intercom button whilst quacking at Bloggs.
Sore backside, sitting on point of bum with knees so far up. No thigh support.
B47 - scars above left eyebrow from forgetting where the door frame is on exit.
B206 - crick in neck from bending down to see out side window when drop window is closed - the top of the frame is right at eye level
A109 - permanent bruise outside left knee from that rotten nose steering lock. Left seat, same as r22, holding knee away from collective when duals fitted.
S76 - no complaints, huge legroom and comfy seat.
* duck's disease = your @ss is too close to the ground
Huey: hunched down to left to reach collective, head tilted up to see over panel, bounced up and down at 2 per rev = back and neck problems, specially if you wear a helmet.
Sore knuckles from trying to point something out to Bloggs and hitting the window, which is too close.
R22 - instructor's side, get a permanent glitch in the left leg muscle, holding it away from the collective. Was tempted to make a foam rubber block with a velcro strap to wrap around my left knee and prop it against the window frame for nav trips. Also get bruise in thumb from pressing that skinny little pointy intercom button whilst quacking at Bloggs.
Sore backside, sitting on point of bum with knees so far up. No thigh support.
B47 - scars above left eyebrow from forgetting where the door frame is on exit.
B206 - crick in neck from bending down to see out side window when drop window is closed - the top of the frame is right at eye level
A109 - permanent bruise outside left knee from that rotten nose steering lock. Left seat, same as r22, holding knee away from collective when duals fitted.
S76 - no complaints, huge legroom and comfy seat.
* duck's disease = your @ss is too close to the ground
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sneetch
I'm surprised you may have problems with 200 hours over 2 years. What are the symptoms?
Ascend Charlie
How tall are you exactly? I know of one guy who uses Tempur Pedic material for long haul and pressure points.
I'm surprised you may have problems with 200 hours over 2 years. What are the symptoms?
Ascend Charlie
How tall are you exactly? I know of one guy who uses Tempur Pedic material for long haul and pressure points.
Gatvol
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: KLAS/TIST/FAJS/KFAI
Posts: 4,195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hhhhhhhmmm, lets see 35 years of doin this and will probably log 5-6 hours today......I guess my legs will be a bit sore today, and so will my back, then back to doin it again tomorrow..
You might consider seeing a Doctor, could be something else...
I find doing a two mile walk every morning keeps the legs moving, if your younger maybe a five mile run..
You might consider seeing a Doctor, could be something else...
I find doing a two mile walk every morning keeps the legs moving, if your younger maybe a five mile run..
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Philadelphia PA
Age: 73
Posts: 1,835
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Back and leg problems are, sadly, a fact of life for helicopter pilots.
The Royal Australian Air Force, when they operated helicopters did a study and concluded that more than 1,000 hrs of helicopter flying practically guaranteed a bad back.
The Canadian Air Force did a study of the OH-58 and said that no-one over 5'10" should be flying the thing.
The HH-65 had one of the worst seats I've ever seen - no need for a fuel gauge - when your bum got numb, it was time to land for gas.
Seats are awful as seats, posture to fly is terrible, and yet no-one seems to do anything about it. I just got a Moller back support and a short period of using it points to less back pain / stiffness after 1.5 hour trips in the OH-58 and UH-1N. Scientific test? No, but it does feel better.
And flying helicopters keeps my chiropractor in the lifestyle he likes.
The Royal Australian Air Force, when they operated helicopters did a study and concluded that more than 1,000 hrs of helicopter flying practically guaranteed a bad back.
The Canadian Air Force did a study of the OH-58 and said that no-one over 5'10" should be flying the thing.
The HH-65 had one of the worst seats I've ever seen - no need for a fuel gauge - when your bum got numb, it was time to land for gas.
Seats are awful as seats, posture to fly is terrible, and yet no-one seems to do anything about it. I just got a Moller back support and a short period of using it points to less back pain / stiffness after 1.5 hour trips in the OH-58 and UH-1N. Scientific test? No, but it does feel better.
And flying helicopters keeps my chiropractor in the lifestyle he likes.
Flying for 26yrs:
Shoulder muscles (especially left one for collective), always stiff. Need a monthly rub down from my female masseur.
Seat vibration reduces the sperm count - no female babies
Piles
Vertigo
Permanent hearing damage due to high frequency engine noise. (Its not from anything else honestly!).
Can't complain..........................
Shoulder muscles (especially left one for collective), always stiff. Need a monthly rub down from my female masseur.
Seat vibration reduces the sperm count - no female babies
Piles
Vertigo
Permanent hearing damage due to high frequency engine noise. (Its not from anything else honestly!).
Can't complain..........................
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 237
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Been flying full time now for about 2 and a bit years have about 1400 hrs mostly in the R22 and R44 I am 6 foot 1 inch and have no problems what so ever, then again i do go to the gym 2-3 times aweek. Maybe the problem is not the time in the air but the time in the bar ??
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Drishan Mor.
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I used to get terrible leg and back pains after only about 1.5 hours flying but now I use the Tempur-Pedic seat and back cushion and I've had no problems since, even flying up to about 4 hours without a shut down.
Guest
Posts: n/a
I get nervous, the shakes, at times I feel uneasy, I feel that at any moment it could all go horrible wrong.....and then i finally get off the motorway and get to work, and then I feel better. 
I dont usally get sore to often, but on navigation flights your backside starts getting a bit tired, sitting in the 300 for 3 hrs can be a long time. Just when we go to refuel, spend 5 mins after refueling just to have a walk around and a bit of a stretch. Can make all the difference.
Hughesy
I dont usally get sore to often, but on navigation flights your backside starts getting a bit tired, sitting in the 300 for 3 hrs can be a long time. Just when we go to refuel, spend 5 mins after refueling just to have a walk around and a bit of a stretch. Can make all the difference.
Hughesy
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,576
Received 429 Likes
on
226 Posts
B Sousa,
I'm sure you're correct about the 2 mile walk being a good thing but I don't see myself having time to do it on a daily basis.... flew 7.6 hours today, 13 sectors, went to work in the dark and arrived home in the dark.... BTW, I used to run 5 miles a day and that's what caused my back to deteriorate in my 30's. Too much high impact isn't good.
Back's been getting worse for about 30 years now, close eyesight getting worse, hearing now selective according to Mrs. S.
Patience now wearing very thin, as is bank balance. Both make me grumpy.
Thank goodness I've still got my own hair, a few teeth and amazing good looks left....
I'm sure you're correct about the 2 mile walk being a good thing but I don't see myself having time to do it on a daily basis.... flew 7.6 hours today, 13 sectors, went to work in the dark and arrived home in the dark.... BTW, I used to run 5 miles a day and that's what caused my back to deteriorate in my 30's. Too much high impact isn't good.
Back's been getting worse for about 30 years now, close eyesight getting worse, hearing now selective according to Mrs. S.
Patience now wearing very thin, as is bank balance. Both make me grumpy.
Thank goodness I've still got my own hair, a few teeth and amazing good looks left....
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Just over there....no there.
Age: 61
Posts: 364
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Gazelle AH1 has got to have the worst seat in aviation, you sit there like a banana. I did a 8.2 hour day on a training ex in Suffield (Canada) with hot re-fuelling inbetween and had to be helped out by the bloody ground crew, bless 'em and I was alot fitter then!
The 206 has got a belter aswell, and with the range extender fitted giving just over three hours, is a bad thing, you tend to lose concentration after about two hours due to discomfort in the bum area which can't be good. I get a stiff muscle in the shoulder blade area aswell.
The 350 and the 205 are ok though, I can sit for longer periods in them without much discomfort.
Saying that, lets face it sitting in one position for hours on end no matter where it is isn't healthy!
The 206 has got a belter aswell, and with the range extender fitted giving just over three hours, is a bad thing, you tend to lose concentration after about two hours due to discomfort in the bum area which can't be good. I get a stiff muscle in the shoulder blade area aswell.
The 350 and the 205 are ok though, I can sit for longer periods in them without much discomfort.
Saying that, lets face it sitting in one position for hours on end no matter where it is isn't healthy!
Gatvol
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: KLAS/TIST/FAJS/KFAI
Posts: 4,195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Since there are now more postings on this subject, Im feeling much worse as I recognize a lot of the symtoms mentioned.
I figure all I need to do is buy a good lottery ticket and let someone else fly ME around...
I figure all I need to do is buy a good lottery ticket and let someone else fly ME around...
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
Age: 60
Posts: 2,051
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes
on
6 Posts
Piles 
Regular NVG use caused my eyesight to be strained and I ended up wearing glasses. 5 years without NVG and I am cleared to fly without my specs!!
Regular NVG use caused my eyesight to be strained and I ended up wearing glasses. 5 years without NVG and I am cleared to fly without my specs!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
col
I agree ...... it's obviously a concern that I'm having problems so early on. However ... It isn't too serious and hopefully things will stay that way. Mostly, I get restlessness in the legs and occasionally a little twitchyness. On one occasion a few months ago during a 3.5 hour flight, most of my toes went numb .... disturbing!
I talked to a friend recently, with many more hours than myself who suggested that numb toes might have more to do with vibration through the pedals which could point to a problem with the balance in the tail rotor?? This is interesting as I haven't flown that particular heli since and have not had the problem again.
It was also suggested that leg problems in R22s, especially for long flights might result from a combination of lack of support in the thigh area .... since the seat in an R22 ends about mid thigh and slight tensing of leg muscles due to pedal pressure ..... Who knows!
Physio or Osteopath? Hmmmm
I agree ...... it's obviously a concern that I'm having problems so early on. However ... It isn't too serious and hopefully things will stay that way. Mostly, I get restlessness in the legs and occasionally a little twitchyness. On one occasion a few months ago during a 3.5 hour flight, most of my toes went numb .... disturbing!
I talked to a friend recently, with many more hours than myself who suggested that numb toes might have more to do with vibration through the pedals which could point to a problem with the balance in the tail rotor?? This is interesting as I haven't flown that particular heli since and have not had the problem again.
It was also suggested that leg problems in R22s, especially for long flights might result from a combination of lack of support in the thigh area .... since the seat in an R22 ends about mid thigh and slight tensing of leg muscles due to pedal pressure ..... Who knows!
Physio or Osteopath? Hmmmm
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: ...in view of the 'Southern Cross' ...
Posts: 1,383
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mmmmmm... and nobody has yet mentioned ...
Mental problems associated with having to put up with management Ego's etc
or Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome (AIDS) ...
wot me bitter and twisted! .... Guilty as charged!!!
Mental problems associated with having to put up with management Ego's etc
or Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome (AIDS) ...
wot me bitter and twisted! .... Guilty as charged!!!
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sneetch
Numbness in toes can be back related - Herniated disc etc.
Might be worth checking with an Osteopath. I have to do certain stretches if I'm sitting in any seatfor a long time. Swimming is excellent and gym sessions, as mentioned, help too.
Try the Tempur-Pedic - you might be surprised at how well it works.
Numbness in toes can be back related - Herniated disc etc.
Might be worth checking with an Osteopath. I have to do certain stretches if I'm sitting in any seatfor a long time. Swimming is excellent and gym sessions, as mentioned, help too.
Try the Tempur-Pedic - you might be surprised at how well it works.
Cool as a moosp
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Mostly Hong Kong
Posts: 802
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's difficult to accept, but the more times I get to the gym, the less aircraft seat problems I have. I used to get back aches, leg pains and incipient piles until I was frightened by a cardiologist into excercise in my late forties.
Most of the above went in the first three months. It is a pain doing excercise, but if you get into the hormone buz that it produces it becomes like a coffee addiction. ie you can do without it but its better with it.
Don't just jog, as is mentioned above it might be part of the problem, but get strength back into your solar plexus (the used beer storage to most of us) and the lower back. Your gym personal trainer will advise you, at an hourly rate that makes you realise that helicopter pilots are seriously underpaid...
If in the bush, then do more than two sit-ups per day. An awesome women's volley ball champion told me her six pack was due to 1200 sit-ups per day. (and that conversation was as close as I got, da** it.)
I agree that most helicopter seats are designed by an orthopeadic sadist although the more modern designers are realising that the class action suits of the 2010's might be avoidable.
Give it a try. The worst that can happen is a hernia through over excercise.
Most of the above went in the first three months. It is a pain doing excercise, but if you get into the hormone buz that it produces it becomes like a coffee addiction. ie you can do without it but its better with it.
Don't just jog, as is mentioned above it might be part of the problem, but get strength back into your solar plexus (the used beer storage to most of us) and the lower back. Your gym personal trainer will advise you, at an hourly rate that makes you realise that helicopter pilots are seriously underpaid...
If in the bush, then do more than two sit-ups per day. An awesome women's volley ball champion told me her six pack was due to 1200 sit-ups per day. (and that conversation was as close as I got, da** it.)
I agree that most helicopter seats are designed by an orthopeadic sadist although the more modern designers are realising that the class action suits of the 2010's might be avoidable.
Give it a try. The worst that can happen is a hernia through over excercise.