engine shutdown
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,937
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From: UK/OZ
engine shutdown
Anyone hear of a engine shutdown at the Athens Olympics...no not Paula Radcliffe!
A squirell? with specialised military surveillence? kit shut down when high tech kit was switched on.
Fortunately incident apparently happened whilst still on the ground.
Any truth??
Mickjoebill.
A squirell? with specialised military surveillence? kit shut down when high tech kit was switched on.
Fortunately incident apparently happened whilst still on the ground.
Any truth??
Mickjoebill.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,937
Likes: 28
From: UK/OZ
I am a cameramen using latestdigital high definition equipment.
CRTs are being repaced by computer monitors, and new camera systems process 6 times more data.
Some recorders are tape based others computer based, recording 1.5 g bit a second.
Various converters that convert signals.
Some but not all of this kit is comming on-line now, stateside in the news gathering heli enviroment, no problems reported so far.
Some of the kit is specialised and will not be used for news garthering.
Until rumors are established or debunked, what on the job tests could we do when we introduce this kit, each time into a FADEC cockpit?
Mickjoebill
Opps.. Should read news garnishing
CRTs are being repaced by computer monitors, and new camera systems process 6 times more data.
Some recorders are tape based others computer based, recording 1.5 g bit a second.
Various converters that convert signals.
Some but not all of this kit is comming on-line now, stateside in the news gathering heli enviroment, no problems reported so far.
Some of the kit is specialised and will not be used for news garthering.
Until rumors are established or debunked, what on the job tests could we do when we introduce this kit, each time into a FADEC cockpit?
Mickjoebill
Some of the kit is specialised and will not be used for news garthering.
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,012
Likes: 1
From: USA
The tests to assure that Electro-Magnetic Interference will not be a problem are extensive, and usually conducted by an expert electrical engineer (a college degree electrical engineer, not an aircraft "engineer" in the British usage) if the design is truly approved by civil authorities.
Beware if the installation is made at a small shop that specializes in searchlights and the like. Cameras and monitors, and especially broadcast gear, produce strong inadvertant signals. At the manufacturer, the design and qualification of this kind of system could take months, and its testing alone could take weeks with specialized equipment.
OTOH, the shielding for FADEC and other critical ship's systems is quite extensive, especially under the latest regulations, which call for EMI levels that were once only needed for Navy shipboard operations where the radars create very strong fields (perhaps a thousand times worse than video gear). The fadecs on Comanche were approved for operation in a nuclear burst (!!!) so the capability to protect exists.
On top of that, FADEC means Full Authority Dual Digital control, there is always a backup. The typical problem one should see if EMI has not been tamed is nuisence "soft" failures, where the system reverts to backup sensors or processors and opertaon is not affected.
Beware if the installation is made at a small shop that specializes in searchlights and the like. Cameras and monitors, and especially broadcast gear, produce strong inadvertant signals. At the manufacturer, the design and qualification of this kind of system could take months, and its testing alone could take weeks with specialized equipment.
OTOH, the shielding for FADEC and other critical ship's systems is quite extensive, especially under the latest regulations, which call for EMI levels that were once only needed for Navy shipboard operations where the radars create very strong fields (perhaps a thousand times worse than video gear). The fadecs on Comanche were approved for operation in a nuclear burst (!!!) so the capability to protect exists.
On top of that, FADEC means Full Authority Dual Digital control, there is always a backup. The typical problem one should see if EMI has not been tamed is nuisence "soft" failures, where the system reverts to backup sensors or processors and opertaon is not affected.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,937
Likes: 28
From: UK/OZ
Cameras and monitors, and especially broadcast gear, produce strong inadvertant signals. At the manufacturer, the design and qualification of this kind of system could take months, and its testing alone could take weeks with specialized equipment.
Save having a EMI test for every flight is there a checklist for ensuring the often unique combination of digital accessories?
My view is that their is very liitle to worry about, but in light of the Olympic rumor and others, perhaps a check should be prudent until the new digital kit has done a few years.
Is it is simple as turning all the camera kit on and waiting for something to go "pop" or is there also a few simple things that pilot can do to put the FADEC through its paces before the aircraft leaves the ground?
Future digital systems will invlove even more powerfull computer processing and encoding working at higher frequencies.
Fiber links between pieces of kit will become the norm.
Mickjoebill
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,012
Likes: 1
From: USA
It is always a shot to make an opinion in this world where cell phones are urban mythed into bringing down jet liners, but a normal tv camera (no broadcast gear/antenna) should have no affect on the ship's systems.
An EMI test normally consists of trying all combinations of the gear while closely monitoring the gages, in a ground run. Should anything wiggle, get it to repeat, and then assess if it makes any operational difference. Most likely, it is the ship's radios that will affect the video, perhaps as snow on the recorded tape, or as a set of lines that march up or down the photographer's view screen while a radio call is being made.
An EMI test normally consists of trying all combinations of the gear while closely monitoring the gages, in a ground run. Should anything wiggle, get it to repeat, and then assess if it makes any operational difference. Most likely, it is the ship's radios that will affect the video, perhaps as snow on the recorded tape, or as a set of lines that march up or down the photographer's view screen while a radio call is being made.
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
Joined: Jul 2000
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From: Bai, mi go long hap na kisim sampla samting.
FADEC means Full Authority Dual Digital control
I always thought FADEC stood for Full Authority Digital Engine Control.
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,012
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From: USA
Electronic governors are often single, and are sometimes confused with FADECs.
We all used to supply the DD but somehow it got left off. I know of no FADEC that is not redundant, in one way or another. Most have dual processors/power supplies and sensors, to meet the DD definition. PPruners, anyone know otherwise?
We all used to supply the DD but somehow it got left off. I know of no FADEC that is not redundant, in one way or another. Most have dual processors/power supplies and sensors, to meet the DD definition. PPruners, anyone know otherwise?
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,835
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From: Philadelphia PA
FADEC normally means Full Authority Digital Engine Control, and implies that it has the authority to shut the engine down. Not all Digital Engine Controls are FADEC. The only ones I know that are true FADEC are on the Bell 407 and Bell 430 - others are DECs (but I could be wrong).
The FAA insisted that prior to installing anything that is even remotely capable of putting out electronic signals onto a DEC equipped helicopter, that a series of Electro-Magnetic Compatibility tests be carried out. I don't have the full reference in front of me, but check with your airworthiness authority who should be able to point you in the right direction.
The DEC (or FADEC) should be immune to all this sort of thing, but you never know....
The FAA insisted that prior to installing anything that is even remotely capable of putting out electronic signals onto a DEC equipped helicopter, that a series of Electro-Magnetic Compatibility tests be carried out. I don't have the full reference in front of me, but check with your airworthiness authority who should be able to point you in the right direction.
The DEC (or FADEC) should be immune to all this sort of thing, but you never know....
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: UK
Before getting too worried, it might be useful to get more info about the "incident". Most Squirrels do not have FADEC - I was not directly involved in the Olympics, but most of the Squirrels I understood that were flying were Fs.
