UK maintenance costs
UK maintenance costs
Iconoclast
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 0
From: The home of Dudley Dooright-Where the lead dog is the only one that gets a change of scenery.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
This was many years ago but the principle is still the same. On the Sikorsky S-51 there was installed a constant velocity joint in the tail rotor drive system. This constant velocity joint was exactly the same unit used in the steering and driveline for the front wheels on a GM 6X6 Army truck. The unit with a GM part number cost around $60.00. That same unit with a Sikorsky part number cost around $600.00
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 603
Likes: 65
From: South of UK
Cabin CO2 detector! £5.50 each!
Found a packet of 2 for £1.00 in Wilkinsons. When respectfully pointing this out to maint outfit, was told that the Wilkinson one wasn't 'from an approved supplier'.
Then asked maintenance outfit to point out where CO2 detector was on minimum equipment list for 206, then had them remove their £5.50 one as it was not required. Replaced it with 50p one from Wilkinsons.
What is it about helicopters? Do people think that we got rich enough to own an expensive toy by being stupid?
Found a packet of 2 for £1.00 in Wilkinsons. When respectfully pointing this out to maint outfit, was told that the Wilkinson one wasn't 'from an approved supplier'.
Then asked maintenance outfit to point out where CO2 detector was on minimum equipment list for 206, then had them remove their £5.50 one as it was not required. Replaced it with 50p one from Wilkinsons.
What is it about helicopters? Do people think that we got rich enough to own an expensive toy by being stupid?
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 573
Likes: 0
From: uk
Somebody nicked my pitot cover when parked overnight.
Returning past maintenance base, called in to get one from stores.
Received invoice;
Pitot cover £30 + VAT
Labour £28 + VAT
The labour charge was a standard min 1/2 hour labour for ME to get the pitot cover from the stores but then somebdy had to write out the invoice, therefore that cost me £28 + VAT.
Returning past maintenance base, called in to get one from stores.
Received invoice;
Pitot cover £30 + VAT
Labour £28 + VAT
The labour charge was a standard min 1/2 hour labour for ME to get the pitot cover from the stores but then somebdy had to write out the invoice, therefore that cost me £28 + VAT.
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
From: UK
I would have to agree with Ground Girl on this one. People bring their car in to an Authorised dealer for maintenance and dont even bat an eyelid at paying labour rates of £70 plus (over £100 per hour for premium brands) and yet in aviation where the safety and quality of workmanship has to reach a far higher standard (in most cases!!) we complain constantly.
My understanding of the spares differential between the automotive and aviaition sectors is that you pay for individual quality control and not batch testing as each part has to be tracked.
My advice would be to know what your paying for (i.e. limit as much as possible the opportunities for hidden extra charges) and approve everything!!
My understanding of the spares differential between the automotive and aviaition sectors is that you pay for individual quality control and not batch testing as each part has to be tracked.
My advice would be to know what your paying for (i.e. limit as much as possible the opportunities for hidden extra charges) and approve everything!!
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 496
Likes: 4
From: Norfolk
Adjusting cable for a crew seat [allows the seat to slide back and forwards]. This is a 50cm sheathed cable, nothing high tech, with a solder nipple at either end. £360.... and they break for fun. Bike shop here we come!
Generator brushes - a couple of bits of graphite with a spring on one end. £600....
I remember in the mid 1980's some [obviously] very bored Bristow Eket engineers worked out that it would cost approximately 4 times as much to build a Bell 212 from spares as they were to buy; rather a lot when you consider the new cost includes paying the factory guys to build it!
Generator brushes - a couple of bits of graphite with a spring on one end. £600....
I remember in the mid 1980's some [obviously] very bored Bristow Eket engineers worked out that it would cost approximately 4 times as much to build a Bell 212 from spares as they were to buy; rather a lot when you consider the new cost includes paying the factory guys to build it!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 603
Likes: 65
From: South of UK
I think we need to be very careful about the car dealership vs helicopter maintenance hourly cost. A service on my Audi takes 4 hours every 18000 miles: which equates to around 500 hours of driving. At £80 an hour, that's around 64 pence an hour.
For the JetRanger, it takes around 1 hours maintenance for every flown hour (forgetting parts!) so that's around £50 an hour.
Dealerships will charge what they can get away with, as they rarely see cars more than once a year, so £300 doesn't look that bad. And as cars now have longer warranties and have become more reliable, they have had to recover their overheads through excessive charges that bear no relation that what they pay their fitters.
Don't become seasoned to that mindset for helicopters, else we'll all be hoodwinked into accepting car-like rates for our maintenance. Don't forget: for a fully utilised engineer earning £40,000 a year, his element of an hours charge is £20. The rest is overhead and profit.
(Sore subject with me, as my maintainers are trying to enforce a 25% increase in labour rates!!)
For the JetRanger, it takes around 1 hours maintenance for every flown hour (forgetting parts!) so that's around £50 an hour.
Dealerships will charge what they can get away with, as they rarely see cars more than once a year, so £300 doesn't look that bad. And as cars now have longer warranties and have become more reliable, they have had to recover their overheads through excessive charges that bear no relation that what they pay their fitters.
Don't become seasoned to that mindset for helicopters, else we'll all be hoodwinked into accepting car-like rates for our maintenance. Don't forget: for a fully utilised engineer earning £40,000 a year, his element of an hours charge is £20. The rest is overhead and profit.
(Sore subject with me, as my maintainers are trying to enforce a 25% increase in labour rates!!)
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
From: UK
206 Jock:
I can see your point of view but I'm afraid it misses the point entirely. No-one is surprised that a Helicopter takes more regular maintenance than a car and I dont think that is the complaint which started the thread.
Indeed the arguement about cars becoming more reliable having a direct impact on the cost per hour that you pay doesnt even make sense when surely in the car industry it is a question of quantity and throughput. I'm sure if you phone your Audi dealer today they will need about two weeks to fit you in for a service!!
So we are back to a labour cost per hour issue and on that basis the Aviaition industry struggles to survive on the poor margins available based on labour rates that are half that of the motor industry.
Aviation maintenance providers all hover (excuse the pun) on the edge of a loss on a regualr basis and even in the good times would rarely generate much more than a 5% return on investment.
Add all this up and I think most companies do a great job providing the level of support that they do.
Also if you can provide me with Engineers that cost me £20 per hour to employ then I'll take a dozen please!!
I can see your point of view but I'm afraid it misses the point entirely. No-one is surprised that a Helicopter takes more regular maintenance than a car and I dont think that is the complaint which started the thread.
Indeed the arguement about cars becoming more reliable having a direct impact on the cost per hour that you pay doesnt even make sense when surely in the car industry it is a question of quantity and throughput. I'm sure if you phone your Audi dealer today they will need about two weeks to fit you in for a service!!
So we are back to a labour cost per hour issue and on that basis the Aviaition industry struggles to survive on the poor margins available based on labour rates that are half that of the motor industry.
Aviation maintenance providers all hover (excuse the pun) on the edge of a loss on a regualr basis and even in the good times would rarely generate much more than a 5% return on investment.
Add all this up and I think most companies do a great job providing the level of support that they do.
Also if you can provide me with Engineers that cost me £20 per hour to employ then I'll take a dozen please!!
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
From: The 245 bulkhead
Not wanting to add fuel to the fire........but...........on the odd occasions while doing a bit of stores inspector work, squirrel wiper blades arrive in eurocopter packaging which upon opening are actually in a box exactly the same as you could buy from Halfords for certain French cars! Mind you, anyone who receives SUP's notifications from the FAA should breath a sigh of relief that they have their aircraft maintained by reputable companies and not by some of the cowboys that are out there. Don't worry it's not just owners that moan about the price of spares - maintenance providers sometimes can't believe it either, as for the labour price, well thats the joys of flying I guess!
