LPC/OPC and Licensed sites
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LPC/OPC and Licensed sites
I know when you are doing any training and the student doesn`t have a type rating you have to use a licensed site.
But what about LPC`s and OPC`s, where both pilots are licensed on type does it have to be flown at a licensed site/airfield
But what about LPC`s and OPC`s, where both pilots are licensed on type does it have to be flown at a licensed site/airfield
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good question
I wonder what the answer is !
seriously I have wondered this myself, you can add Line checks to that list too. hope someone with some actual knowledge knows
I wonder what the answer is !
seriously I have wondered this myself, you can add Line checks to that list too. hope someone with some actual knowledge knows
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We are talking UK here - I assume
I think the situation with line checks is pretty clear. Line checks are not training or revalidation of a rating or licence. Line checks are checks on the line. the person doing the check need not be an instructor or TRE. Since lots of helicopter line flying involves flights to and from non-licensed sites, there is no problem with line checks.
Prior to JAR FCL, it was clear that any flight for a licence or rating flight test needed to be done at a licensed site (or government aerodrome) - it said so quite clearly in the requirements.
Since JAR FCL , nothing is clear. I am not quite current in training matters any more. It would be worth wading through LASORS. My recollection was that the CAA were trying to impose effectively the same requirement as pre-JAR FCL. Someone current in training may be able to help.
I think the situation with line checks is pretty clear. Line checks are not training or revalidation of a rating or licence. Line checks are checks on the line. the person doing the check need not be an instructor or TRE. Since lots of helicopter line flying involves flights to and from non-licensed sites, there is no problem with line checks.
Prior to JAR FCL, it was clear that any flight for a licence or rating flight test needed to be done at a licensed site (or government aerodrome) - it said so quite clearly in the requirements.
Since JAR FCL , nothing is clear. I am not quite current in training matters any more. It would be worth wading through LASORS. My recollection was that the CAA were trying to impose effectively the same requirement as pre-JAR FCL. Someone current in training may be able to help.
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CAA Flight Examiners Handbook, Version 2003
Section 2.6.1
"In accordance with ANO Article 101, all flight instruction and testing for the purposes of becoming qualified for the grant of a pilot's licence or the inclusion of an aircraft rating. a night rating or a night qualification must be carried out at a licensed aerodrome or a UK Government Aerodrome. Thus training for the grant of an FI, IMC or I/R or the revalidation of an existing rating does not fall under the provision of this article."
Section 2.6.1
"In accordance with ANO Article 101, all flight instruction and testing for the purposes of becoming qualified for the grant of a pilot's licence or the inclusion of an aircraft rating. a night rating or a night qualification must be carried out at a licensed aerodrome or a UK Government Aerodrome. Thus training for the grant of an FI, IMC or I/R or the revalidation of an existing rating does not fall under the provision of this article."
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CAA Flight Examiners Handbook, Version 2003
Section 2.6.1
"In accordance with ANO Article 101, all flight instruction and testing for the purposes of becoming qualified for the grant of a pilot's licence or the inclusion of an aircraft rating. a night rating or a night qualification must be carried out at a licensed aerodrome or a UK Government Aerodrome.
This paragragh covers most things apart from a LPC and OPC Most of the time both pilots are licenced and type rated on type. Therefore the "candidate" is not being tested for the purpose of a pilots licence or the inclusion of an aircraft rating.
Small point I know but it`s not very clear.
Sorry Kalif just re-read your post and you cover what I have posted in your last sentence.
Section 2.6.1
"In accordance with ANO Article 101, all flight instruction and testing for the purposes of becoming qualified for the grant of a pilot's licence or the inclusion of an aircraft rating. a night rating or a night qualification must be carried out at a licensed aerodrome or a UK Government Aerodrome.
This paragragh covers most things apart from a LPC and OPC Most of the time both pilots are licenced and type rated on type. Therefore the "candidate" is not being tested for the purpose of a pilots licence or the inclusion of an aircraft rating.
Small point I know but it`s not very clear.
Sorry Kalif just re-read your post and you cover what I have posted in your last sentence.
For an OPC the Company Ops Manual may dictate.
For an LPC revalidation (excluding Section 5), then a suitable site is all that is required.
An individual TRE or Operator may have their own opinions that might come to the fore here, but suitable does not mean licenced.
For an LPC revalidation (excluding Section 5), then a suitable site is all that is required.
An individual TRE or Operator may have their own opinions that might come to the fore here, but suitable does not mean licenced.
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Flight Examiner Handbook (Helicopters) 2003, section 2.7 says " Examiners are reminded that with the exception of training and tests for the Instrument Rating all other instruction and tests/checks are to be conducted to and from a licensed airfield/site in accordance with the ANO Artcile 101".
Whilst the ANO does not specifically cover the case for an LPC, the above wording does indicate that as far as the CAA are concerned all tests must be conducted from a licensed location.
Any other takes on this wording ?
Whilst the ANO does not specifically cover the case for an LPC, the above wording does indicate that as far as the CAA are concerned all tests must be conducted from a licensed location.
Any other takes on this wording ?
Article 101 seems pretty clear cut:
(iii) flights for the purpose of:
(aa) instruction in flying given to any person for the purpose of becoming qualified for the grant of a pilot’s licence or the inclusion of an aircraft rating, a night rating or a night qualification in a licence; or
(bb) a flying test in respect of the grant of a pilot’s licence or the inclusion of an aircraft rating, a night rating or a night qualification in a licence
An OPC or LPC is none of the above so does not have to be carried out at a licensed airfield (or outside licensing hours at a normally licensed airfield).
(iii) flights for the purpose of:
(aa) instruction in flying given to any person for the purpose of becoming qualified for the grant of a pilot’s licence or the inclusion of an aircraft rating, a night rating or a night qualification in a licence; or
(bb) a flying test in respect of the grant of a pilot’s licence or the inclusion of an aircraft rating, a night rating or a night qualification in a licence
An OPC or LPC is none of the above so does not have to be carried out at a licensed airfield (or outside licensing hours at a normally licensed airfield).
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I think the two quotes from the Examiner's Handbook make my point quite well - essentially they contradict each other.
The practical answer is that you will do the OPC/LPC where your TRE decides - I guess it depends which bit of the handbook he chooses to read.
I miss the training/checking flying but I am glad to be removed from the advancing wall of paperwork and pointless activity.
The practical answer is that you will do the OPC/LPC where your TRE decides - I guess it depends which bit of the handbook he chooses to read.
I miss the training/checking flying but I am glad to be removed from the advancing wall of paperwork and pointless activity.
