Colour Blindness (merged)
Hi everyone,
I failed my CAA Class one about 5 years ago but passed the RAF Holmes-Wright test. I used this to base on argument on CAA allowing me to re-test. Normally, if you fail it you aren't allowed a re-test. The reason for this is that "your colour perception will never change...".
I obtained a JAA Class One after passing the HW test at Gatwick earlier this year. It took a great deal of letter writing, phonecalls and visits to get them to agree to a re-test. Luckily for me, the RAF got involved and wrote to the CAA on my behalf with me HW results from Cranwell.
My understanding was that that was it. No colour perception test EVER again! However, this news of having to re-do it every 5 years is rather worrying... This completely contradicts their argument for not allowing people to re-sit the colour perception test - "your perception never changes?!". With my current progression (having instructed with a restricted class 2 before getting my class one) I am hoping to be in an airline F/O position by June(-ish) next year. I could be out of a job 4 years later if I failed the Holmes-Wright!
Incidentally, after the first 2 attempts at a set on the HW test, the optometrist sits you in the darkened room for 20 minutes to allow your cones to open up (?). This is the final attempt you are allowed. I passed at this. Close shave!
Make your minds up CAA! They are potentially ruining peoples careers and shattering peoples dreams. It seems so antiquated....
Don't give up everyone!
LOC
I failed my CAA Class one about 5 years ago but passed the RAF Holmes-Wright test. I used this to base on argument on CAA allowing me to re-test. Normally, if you fail it you aren't allowed a re-test. The reason for this is that "your colour perception will never change...".
I obtained a JAA Class One after passing the HW test at Gatwick earlier this year. It took a great deal of letter writing, phonecalls and visits to get them to agree to a re-test. Luckily for me, the RAF got involved and wrote to the CAA on my behalf with me HW results from Cranwell.
My understanding was that that was it. No colour perception test EVER again! However, this news of having to re-do it every 5 years is rather worrying... This completely contradicts their argument for not allowing people to re-sit the colour perception test - "your perception never changes?!". With my current progression (having instructed with a restricted class 2 before getting my class one) I am hoping to be in an airline F/O position by June(-ish) next year. I could be out of a job 4 years later if I failed the Holmes-Wright!
Incidentally, after the first 2 attempts at a set on the HW test, the optometrist sits you in the darkened room for 20 minutes to allow your cones to open up (?). This is the final attempt you are allowed. I passed at this. Close shave!
Make your minds up CAA! They are potentially ruining peoples careers and shattering peoples dreams. It seems so antiquated....
Don't give up everyone!
LOC
Hi everyone,
I failed my CAA Class one about 5 years ago but passed the RAF Holmes-Wright test. I used this to base on argument on CAA allowing me to re-test. Normally, if you fail it you aren't allowed a re-test. The reason for this is that "your colour perception will never change...".
I obtained a JAA Class One after passing the HW test at Gatwick earlier this year. It took a great deal of letter writing, phonecalls and visits to get them to agree to a re-test. Luckily for me, the RAF got involved and wrote to the CAA on my behalf with me HW results from Cranwell.
My understanding was that that was it. No colour perception test EVER again! However, this news of having to re-do it every 5 years is rather worrying... This completely contradicts their argument for not allowing people to re-sit the colour perception test - "your perception never changes?!". With my current progression (having instructed with a restricted class 2 before getting my class one) I am hoping to be in an airline F/O position by June(-ish) next year. I could be out of a job 4 years later if I failed the Holmes-Wright!
Incidentally, after the first 2 attempts at a set on the HW test, the optometrist sits you in the darkened room for 20 minutes to allow your cones to open up (?). This is the final attempt you are allowed. I passed at this. Close shave!
Make your minds up CAA! They are potentially ruining peoples careers and shattering peoples dreams. It seems so antiquated....
Don't give up everyone!
LOC
I failed my CAA Class one about 5 years ago but passed the RAF Holmes-Wright test. I used this to base on argument on CAA allowing me to re-test. Normally, if you fail it you aren't allowed a re-test. The reason for this is that "your colour perception will never change...".
I obtained a JAA Class One after passing the HW test at Gatwick earlier this year. It took a great deal of letter writing, phonecalls and visits to get them to agree to a re-test. Luckily for me, the RAF got involved and wrote to the CAA on my behalf with me HW results from Cranwell.
My understanding was that that was it. No colour perception test EVER again! However, this news of having to re-do it every 5 years is rather worrying... This completely contradicts their argument for not allowing people to re-sit the colour perception test - "your perception never changes?!". With my current progression (having instructed with a restricted class 2 before getting my class one) I am hoping to be in an airline F/O position by June(-ish) next year. I could be out of a job 4 years later if I failed the Holmes-Wright!
Incidentally, after the first 2 attempts at a set on the HW test, the optometrist sits you in the darkened room for 20 minutes to allow your cones to open up (?). This is the final attempt you are allowed. I passed at this. Close shave!
Make your minds up CAA! They are potentially ruining peoples careers and shattering peoples dreams. It seems so antiquated....
Don't give up everyone!
LOC
Guest
Posts: n/a
Thanks for the info about the good Dr Pape in Australia. He was very helpful in his reply but does not have the time or money for a long case in The Hague.
The only way to get the regulations changed is by taking the matter to the European court of human rights on the grounds that us "black and white" viewers are being denied our chosen career when there is no scientific evidence that the Ishihara or holmes-wright tests give an accurate or fair appraisal of one's ability to differentiate navigation lights or interprate EFIS displays.
The CAA/JAA will not accept a SODA (statement of demonstrated ability test)which the USA, Australia etc do, which is the only fair and accurate assessement of one's ability. I would happily fly around with a CAA inspector spotting nav lights or lights from the tower to prove my ability.
Any court case would have "experts" warning of mid-air collisions between airliners driven by colour defficient pilots, and be difficult to win. This is nonsense as many US, Canadian, Australian etc airliners fly into Heathrow and over europe every day with pilots who cannot pass the Holmes-Wright test.
Perhaps AOPA or a similar body could help fight the case as no individual could afford the legal costs.
The only way to get the regulations changed is by taking the matter to the European court of human rights on the grounds that us "black and white" viewers are being denied our chosen career when there is no scientific evidence that the Ishihara or holmes-wright tests give an accurate or fair appraisal of one's ability to differentiate navigation lights or interprate EFIS displays.
The CAA/JAA will not accept a SODA (statement of demonstrated ability test)which the USA, Australia etc do, which is the only fair and accurate assessement of one's ability. I would happily fly around with a CAA inspector spotting nav lights or lights from the tower to prove my ability.
Any court case would have "experts" warning of mid-air collisions between airliners driven by colour defficient pilots, and be difficult to win. This is nonsense as many US, Canadian, Australian etc airliners fly into Heathrow and over europe every day with pilots who cannot pass the Holmes-Wright test.
Perhaps AOPA or a similar body could help fight the case as no individual could afford the legal costs.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Thanks for the info about the good Dr Pape in Australia. He was very helpful in his reply but does not have the time or money for a long case in The Hague.
The only way to get the regulations changed is by taking the matter to the European court of human rights on the grounds that us "black and white" viewers are being denied our chosen career when there is no scientific evidence that the Ishihara or holmes-wright tests give an accurate or fair appraisal of one's ability to differentiate navigation lights or interprate EFIS displays.
The CAA/JAA will not accept a SODA (statement of demonstrated ability test)which the USA, Australia etc do, which is the only fair and accurate assessement of one's ability. I would happily fly around with a CAA inspector spotting nav lights or lights from the tower to prove my ability.
Any court case would have "experts" warning of mid-air collisions between airliners driven by colour defficient pilots, and be difficult to win. This is nonsense as many US, Canadian, Australian etc airliners fly into Heathrow and over europe every day with pilots who cannot pass the Holmes-Wright test.
Perhaps AOPA or a similar body could help fight the case as no individual could afford the legal costs.
The only way to get the regulations changed is by taking the matter to the European court of human rights on the grounds that us "black and white" viewers are being denied our chosen career when there is no scientific evidence that the Ishihara or holmes-wright tests give an accurate or fair appraisal of one's ability to differentiate navigation lights or interprate EFIS displays.
The CAA/JAA will not accept a SODA (statement of demonstrated ability test)which the USA, Australia etc do, which is the only fair and accurate assessement of one's ability. I would happily fly around with a CAA inspector spotting nav lights or lights from the tower to prove my ability.
Any court case would have "experts" warning of mid-air collisions between airliners driven by colour defficient pilots, and be difficult to win. This is nonsense as many US, Canadian, Australian etc airliners fly into Heathrow and over europe every day with pilots who cannot pass the Holmes-Wright test.
Perhaps AOPA or a similar body could help fight the case as no individual could afford the legal costs.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hi,
is there anybody who knows if you can do your ATPL in the USA/Australia/... if you're colour unsafe in Europe? I haven't yet passed the Holmes Wright test at Soesterberg. What are the requirement in the USA with reference to colour blindness???
Gr. Dutch-pilot
is there anybody who knows if you can do your ATPL in the USA/Australia/... if you're colour unsafe in Europe? I haven't yet passed the Holmes Wright test at Soesterberg. What are the requirement in the USA with reference to colour blindness???
Gr. Dutch-pilot
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hi,
is there anybody who knows if you can do your ATPL in the USA/Australia/... if you're colour unsafe in Europe? I haven't yet passed the Holmes Wright test at Soesterberg. What are the requirement in the USA with reference to colour blindness???
Gr. Dutch-pilot
is there anybody who knows if you can do your ATPL in the USA/Australia/... if you're colour unsafe in Europe? I haven't yet passed the Holmes Wright test at Soesterberg. What are the requirement in the USA with reference to colour blindness???
Gr. Dutch-pilot
Guest
Posts: n/a
In the US and australia , if you fail the Ishihara tests, there are a number of alternative tests, the main one is the Falant lantern test.
If you cannot pass these, you can do a SODA test(staement of demonstrated ability) which usually involves identifying lights from a control tower at various distances.
Then you can get a SODA waiver with your medical which exempts you from further tests but must be showed to a prospective employer.
You can get an ATPL with this though if you are European, it might be difficult getting a green card/work permit.
If you cannot pass these, you can do a SODA test(staement of demonstrated ability) which usually involves identifying lights from a control tower at various distances.
Then you can get a SODA waiver with your medical which exempts you from further tests but must be showed to a prospective employer.
You can get an ATPL with this though if you are European, it might be difficult getting a green card/work permit.
Guest
Posts: n/a
In the US and australia , if you fail the Ishihara tests, there are a number of alternative tests, the main one is the Falant lantern test.
If you cannot pass these, you can do a SODA test(staement of demonstrated ability) which usually involves identifying lights from a control tower at various distances.
Then you can get a SODA waiver with your medical which exempts you from further tests but must be showed to a prospective employer.
You can get an ATPL with this though if you are European, it might be difficult getting a green card/work permit.
If you cannot pass these, you can do a SODA test(staement of demonstrated ability) which usually involves identifying lights from a control tower at various distances.
Then you can get a SODA waiver with your medical which exempts you from further tests but must be showed to a prospective employer.
You can get an ATPL with this though if you are European, it might be difficult getting a green card/work permit.
Guest
Posts: n/a
I posted this under a different topic but here it is again.
according to the JAA the door may be open to the signal light test.
here are the relevant links.
http://www.jaa.nl/jar/jar/jar/jar.fcl.3.1.a.3.125.htm
and
http://www.jaa.nl/jar/jar/jar/jar.fcl.3.1.a.3.045.htm
The regs were written in general terms so they do not apply specifically to colour vision however here are the important points.
Under JAR 3.045 "Special Circumstances"
"An exemption may be granted where the application of JAR-FCL would have anamalous consequences."
Clearly the fact that a FAA licensed pilot with a SODA for colour vision can legally fly a N registered aircraft commercially in JAA airspace but would be denied the possibility of flying a JAA reg aircraft in the same airspace is an "Anamalous Consequence"
"An Exemption may be granted if it can be shown that an equivalent level of safety would exist."
The evidence of an equivalent level of safety is overwhelming. The FAA have been issuing SODA's for many many years and to date no one with a SODA has crashed or had an incident where the cause was determined to be poor colour vision. The FAA thorougly researched this before they began issuing SODA's and have a large body of evidence to support and validate the signal light test.
Dr Pape in Australia has taken it a step further and proved this to the satisfaction of the courts.
FCL 3.125 allows for the ability and skill of the applicant to be considered. It also suggests a medical flight test if appropriate.
I live in the USA an I am in the process of getting my instrument rating and I intend to get my commercial and multiengine ratings also. I have a current First Class medical with a SODA for Color vision.
Good luck to anyone who takes on the JAA I'm sure that you will meet a lot of resistance but keep at it.
according to the JAA the door may be open to the signal light test.
here are the relevant links.
http://www.jaa.nl/jar/jar/jar/jar.fcl.3.1.a.3.125.htm
and
http://www.jaa.nl/jar/jar/jar/jar.fcl.3.1.a.3.045.htm
The regs were written in general terms so they do not apply specifically to colour vision however here are the important points.
Under JAR 3.045 "Special Circumstances"
"An exemption may be granted where the application of JAR-FCL would have anamalous consequences."
Clearly the fact that a FAA licensed pilot with a SODA for colour vision can legally fly a N registered aircraft commercially in JAA airspace but would be denied the possibility of flying a JAA reg aircraft in the same airspace is an "Anamalous Consequence"
"An Exemption may be granted if it can be shown that an equivalent level of safety would exist."
The evidence of an equivalent level of safety is overwhelming. The FAA have been issuing SODA's for many many years and to date no one with a SODA has crashed or had an incident where the cause was determined to be poor colour vision. The FAA thorougly researched this before they began issuing SODA's and have a large body of evidence to support and validate the signal light test.
Dr Pape in Australia has taken it a step further and proved this to the satisfaction of the courts.
FCL 3.125 allows for the ability and skill of the applicant to be considered. It also suggests a medical flight test if appropriate.
I live in the USA an I am in the process of getting my instrument rating and I intend to get my commercial and multiengine ratings also. I have a current First Class medical with a SODA for Color vision.
Good luck to anyone who takes on the JAA I'm sure that you will meet a lot of resistance but keep at it.
Guest
Posts: n/a
I posted this under a different topic but here it is again.
according to the JAA the door may be open to the signal light test.
here are the relevant links.
http://www.jaa.nl/jar/jar/jar/jar.fcl.3.1.a.3.125.htm
and
http://www.jaa.nl/jar/jar/jar/jar.fcl.3.1.a.3.045.htm
The regs were written in general terms so they do not apply specifically to colour vision however here are the important points.
Under JAR 3.045 "Special Circumstances"
"An exemption may be granted where the application of JAR-FCL would have anamalous consequences."
Clearly the fact that a FAA licensed pilot with a SODA for colour vision can legally fly a N registered aircraft commercially in JAA airspace but would be denied the possibility of flying a JAA reg aircraft in the same airspace is an "Anamalous Consequence"
"An Exemption may be granted if it can be shown that an equivalent level of safety would exist."
The evidence of an equivalent level of safety is overwhelming. The FAA have been issuing SODA's for many many years and to date no one with a SODA has crashed or had an incident where the cause was determined to be poor colour vision. The FAA thorougly researched this before they began issuing SODA's and have a large body of evidence to support and validate the signal light test.
Dr Pape in Australia has taken it a step further and proved this to the satisfaction of the courts.
FCL 3.125 allows for the ability and skill of the applicant to be considered. It also suggests a medical flight test if appropriate.
I live in the USA an I am in the process of getting my instrument rating and I intend to get my commercial and multiengine ratings also. I have a current First Class medical with a SODA for Color vision.
Good luck to anyone who takes on the JAA I'm sure that you will meet a lot of resistance but keep at it.
according to the JAA the door may be open to the signal light test.
here are the relevant links.
http://www.jaa.nl/jar/jar/jar/jar.fcl.3.1.a.3.125.htm
and
http://www.jaa.nl/jar/jar/jar/jar.fcl.3.1.a.3.045.htm
The regs were written in general terms so they do not apply specifically to colour vision however here are the important points.
Under JAR 3.045 "Special Circumstances"
"An exemption may be granted where the application of JAR-FCL would have anamalous consequences."
Clearly the fact that a FAA licensed pilot with a SODA for colour vision can legally fly a N registered aircraft commercially in JAA airspace but would be denied the possibility of flying a JAA reg aircraft in the same airspace is an "Anamalous Consequence"
"An Exemption may be granted if it can be shown that an equivalent level of safety would exist."
The evidence of an equivalent level of safety is overwhelming. The FAA have been issuing SODA's for many many years and to date no one with a SODA has crashed or had an incident where the cause was determined to be poor colour vision. The FAA thorougly researched this before they began issuing SODA's and have a large body of evidence to support and validate the signal light test.
Dr Pape in Australia has taken it a step further and proved this to the satisfaction of the courts.
FCL 3.125 allows for the ability and skill of the applicant to be considered. It also suggests a medical flight test if appropriate.
I live in the USA an I am in the process of getting my instrument rating and I intend to get my commercial and multiengine ratings also. I have a current First Class medical with a SODA for Color vision.
Good luck to anyone who takes on the JAA I'm sure that you will meet a lot of resistance but keep at it.