MRH-90 helicopters for Australia
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MRH-90 helicopters for Australia
News is that the Australian Aerospace/Eurocopter MRH-90 has been selected for the additional troop lift helicopter requirement. Seems like a good choice.
News confirmed and initial batch of 12 aircraft announced.
News confirmed and initial batch of 12 aircraft announced.
Last edited by SawThe Light; 31st Aug 2004 at 03:08.
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To provide a few more details:
source
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Govt approves $1b Army chopper squadron
The Federal Government has decided to buy 12 new heavy-lift helicopters for the Army at a total cost of $1 billion.
Prime Minister John Howard says the Government has selected Australian Aerospace, a subsidiary of European defence giant EADS, to supply the Eurocopter MRH 90 helicopters, subject to final negotiations.
The helicopters can carry up to 18 troops and operate from the Navy's amphibious ships.
Mr Howard says the new squadron will be based in Townsville.
The helicopters will be delivered from 2007 and 2008.
"This will bolster not only our troop-lift capacity, because of the state-of-the-art technology associated with the new helicopters, but it will also release a squadron of Blackhawks," Mr Howard said.
"They will be shifted to Sydney to reinforce the ADF's [Australian Defence Force] special forces under the arrangements that were announced some 18 months ago."
Cabinet selected the MRH 90 over the Black Hawk made by US firm Sikorsky.
The new helicopter is expected to double the Army's troop-lift capacity. The MRH 90's ability to operate from naval vessels was a key consideration in awarding the contract.
Australian Aerospace says the MRH 90, known as the NH 90 in Europe, is used for tactical transport army missions, amphibious missions, navy anti-submarine and anti-surface warfare missions from a single platform type.
The helicopters will be manufactured in Europe and assembled in Brisbane.
The Federal Government has decided to buy 12 new heavy-lift helicopters for the Army at a total cost of $1 billion.
Prime Minister John Howard says the Government has selected Australian Aerospace, a subsidiary of European defence giant EADS, to supply the Eurocopter MRH 90 helicopters, subject to final negotiations.
The helicopters can carry up to 18 troops and operate from the Navy's amphibious ships.
Mr Howard says the new squadron will be based in Townsville.
The helicopters will be delivered from 2007 and 2008.
"This will bolster not only our troop-lift capacity, because of the state-of-the-art technology associated with the new helicopters, but it will also release a squadron of Blackhawks," Mr Howard said.
"They will be shifted to Sydney to reinforce the ADF's [Australian Defence Force] special forces under the arrangements that were announced some 18 months ago."
Cabinet selected the MRH 90 over the Black Hawk made by US firm Sikorsky.
The new helicopter is expected to double the Army's troop-lift capacity. The MRH 90's ability to operate from naval vessels was a key consideration in awarding the contract.
Australian Aerospace says the MRH 90, known as the NH 90 in Europe, is used for tactical transport army missions, amphibious missions, navy anti-submarine and anti-surface warfare missions from a single platform type.
The helicopters will be manufactured in Europe and assembled in Brisbane.
and
Senator the Hon. Robert Hill, Minister for Defence
Leader of the Government in the Senate
Media Release
31 Aug 2004 MIN175/04
NEW HELICOPTERS FOR ARMY
The Australian Army will be equipped with 12 new troop lift helicopters under a $1 billion project approved by the Howard Government, Prime Minister John Howard and Defence Minister Robert Hill announced today.
Senator Hill said the Government had selected Australian Aerospace to supply the new MRH-90 aircraft to form an additional troop lift helicopter squadron, subject to satisfactory conclusion of negotiations.
This will bolster Australia’s counter-terrorism capabilities by releasing a Black Hawk squadron to provide dedicated support to our Special Forces on the east coast.
"The MRH-90 is the new generation of multi-role helicopters, equipped with state-of-the-art technology, a rear ramp that can be used to load small vehicles, a flexible cabin configuration, a full fly-by-wire flight control system and digital cockpit," Senator Hill said.
"The helicopter can carry up to 18 troops plus four crew or 4000kg of underslung cargo, cruises at up to 300kph and has a maximum range of over 900km. It is a fully marinised helicopter that is able to operate from the Royal Australian Navy’s current and future amphibious ships.
"It is purpose-built for amphibious operations and includes extra corrosion protection, folding rotor blades and other enhancements to allow shipboard operations. This will give the Army an enhanced ability to move more soldiers further and faster from our amphibious lift ships, HMAS Kanimbla and Manoora, and their replacements.
"The aircraft is certified for ditching and is designed to modern safety standards, including crashworthiness and tolerance to structural and system damage – offering excellent protection for our troops that will be conducting sea and land operations."
Senator Hill said the first helicopter for the new squadron at Townsville would be delivered in 2007, with all 12 aircraft expected to be delivered by 2008.
"The new squadron will increase Army’s troop lift capability by more than half," Senator Hill said.
"This will allow the relocation of a squadron of Black Hawk helicopters to the Sydney area to support the ADF’s Special Forces, further strengthening the Howard Government’s commitment to fighting terrorism.
"The Black Hawk squadron will be located near our Special Forces soldiers that are based at Holsworthy and will enhance mobility and training effectiveness for this critical capability.
"The Howard Government has committed more than $1.3 billion to the Australian Defence Force to fight the war against terrorism since 11 September 2001. This project will mean our Special Forces are better equipped to respond swiftly to any terrorist threat or incident."
Senator Hill said the project would also provide a substantial boost for Australian industry.
"The purchase of these new helicopters will include a support contract that may last for up to 20 years, and the overall Australian industry component of this project is expected to exceed $300 million," Senator Hill said.
"Benefits are expected to build on Australian Aerospace’s industry commitment developed as part of project AIR 87 and the delivery of the Armed Reconnaissance Helicopter, the Eurocopter Tiger. Opportunities for Australian industry are anticipated in helicopter assembly, common and similar aircraft systems, avionics equipment, structural and engine technologies and training systems."
Leader of the Government in the Senate
Media Release
31 Aug 2004 MIN175/04
NEW HELICOPTERS FOR ARMY
The Australian Army will be equipped with 12 new troop lift helicopters under a $1 billion project approved by the Howard Government, Prime Minister John Howard and Defence Minister Robert Hill announced today.
Senator Hill said the Government had selected Australian Aerospace to supply the new MRH-90 aircraft to form an additional troop lift helicopter squadron, subject to satisfactory conclusion of negotiations.
This will bolster Australia’s counter-terrorism capabilities by releasing a Black Hawk squadron to provide dedicated support to our Special Forces on the east coast.
"The MRH-90 is the new generation of multi-role helicopters, equipped with state-of-the-art technology, a rear ramp that can be used to load small vehicles, a flexible cabin configuration, a full fly-by-wire flight control system and digital cockpit," Senator Hill said.
"The helicopter can carry up to 18 troops plus four crew or 4000kg of underslung cargo, cruises at up to 300kph and has a maximum range of over 900km. It is a fully marinised helicopter that is able to operate from the Royal Australian Navy’s current and future amphibious ships.
"It is purpose-built for amphibious operations and includes extra corrosion protection, folding rotor blades and other enhancements to allow shipboard operations. This will give the Army an enhanced ability to move more soldiers further and faster from our amphibious lift ships, HMAS Kanimbla and Manoora, and their replacements.
"The aircraft is certified for ditching and is designed to modern safety standards, including crashworthiness and tolerance to structural and system damage – offering excellent protection for our troops that will be conducting sea and land operations."
Senator Hill said the first helicopter for the new squadron at Townsville would be delivered in 2007, with all 12 aircraft expected to be delivered by 2008.
"The new squadron will increase Army’s troop lift capability by more than half," Senator Hill said.
"This will allow the relocation of a squadron of Black Hawk helicopters to the Sydney area to support the ADF’s Special Forces, further strengthening the Howard Government’s commitment to fighting terrorism.
"The Black Hawk squadron will be located near our Special Forces soldiers that are based at Holsworthy and will enhance mobility and training effectiveness for this critical capability.
"The Howard Government has committed more than $1.3 billion to the Australian Defence Force to fight the war against terrorism since 11 September 2001. This project will mean our Special Forces are better equipped to respond swiftly to any terrorist threat or incident."
Senator Hill said the project would also provide a substantial boost for Australian industry.
"The purchase of these new helicopters will include a support contract that may last for up to 20 years, and the overall Australian industry component of this project is expected to exceed $300 million," Senator Hill said.
"Benefits are expected to build on Australian Aerospace’s industry commitment developed as part of project AIR 87 and the delivery of the Armed Reconnaissance Helicopter, the Eurocopter Tiger. Opportunities for Australian industry are anticipated in helicopter assembly, common and similar aircraft systems, avionics equipment, structural and engine technologies and training systems."
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One of the problems with the UH1H as I recall from my days as a grunt (infantryman) in the early 1980s was that they couldn't carry a full infantry section (Aust section = 10 men when at full strength). They carried about 8 fully kitted out troops. So you had to have a helo and a half to carry a section or three to carry two sections.
That proved a logistic problem especially when you wanted the two sections to be landed at different places. The sort of excercise that had the potential for stuff ups etc. Dopey digger getting off at the wrong stop, half the section there and under strength due to delays in the second helicopter etc.
When we got blackhawks the whole section could be lifted in each machine and solved the problem.
Now we go back to the same problem but on the next scale up. Now we can fit 1.8 sections not 2 sections in each helicopter and have to have a second to load the last two blokes.
I'm not saing they aren't a better machine from a pilots, or store carriers perspective but I wonder if the old problem has been missed by some too-young-to-know type person.
That proved a logistic problem especially when you wanted the two sections to be landed at different places. The sort of excercise that had the potential for stuff ups etc. Dopey digger getting off at the wrong stop, half the section there and under strength due to delays in the second helicopter etc.
When we got blackhawks the whole section could be lifted in each machine and solved the problem.
Now we go back to the same problem but on the next scale up. Now we can fit 1.8 sections not 2 sections in each helicopter and have to have a second to load the last two blokes.
I'm not saing they aren't a better machine from a pilots, or store carriers perspective but I wonder if the old problem has been missed by some too-young-to-know type person.
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The US Army special ops people solved the size problem in Hawks by removing all the seats and sitting 25 on the floor. The aircraft has the lift, and it seems silly to sit people on crashworthy seats on their way to a fire fight, where they will get shot at by folks who think the safety of thier enemy is not top priority!
The scenes from Black Hawk Down show this method, which also de-planes fast.
The scenes from Black Hawk Down show this method, which also de-planes fast.
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Gadgetguru
Yeah I have to admit as I was writing that post I was thinking the same sort of thing. 
But we had them up to strength just enough times that it came back to mind.
don't think i ever saw a full strength section during my (10yrs) service
But we had them up to strength just enough times that it came back to mind.
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Gday all,
Firstly, congratulations to all on a fantastic site and resource for information.
Secondly, my apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but I am unable to start a new thread in the appropriate (military aircrew) section, or find any information using the search function.
My question is, does anyone have first hand or reliable information about who will be piloting the MRH90's and Tiger's that the Australian Army is aquiring, ie will existing Blackhawk and Kiowa crews move across to the new aircraft, or will the next generation of pilots coming through their training move into these aircraft?
Thanks for any information.
Daryl.
Firstly, congratulations to all on a fantastic site and resource for information.
Secondly, my apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but I am unable to start a new thread in the appropriate (military aircrew) section, or find any information using the search function.
My question is, does anyone have first hand or reliable information about who will be piloting the MRH90's and Tiger's that the Australian Army is aquiring, ie will existing Blackhawk and Kiowa crews move across to the new aircraft, or will the next generation of pilots coming through their training move into these aircraft?
Thanks for any information.
Daryl.
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Daryl, the short answer is Army pilots will. Of course there will be those that say you have to have twin experience and a million hours b4 having the honour of crewing the new aircraft, however, when it comes down to it, it will be bums on seats. Of course the prority will be for Blackhawk/Ch47 drivers from Townsville with a splatter of laterals from the UK etc in the same way that Tiger will be Kiowa crews. It is also pretty clear that newly qualified aircrew will qualify on both types too.
Strange that you ask on this forum. Why not call the boys at DACI, Oakey? or OC A at Townsville? I'm sure you'll get all form the horses mouth!!!
Shaun
Strange that you ask on this forum. Why not call the boys at DACI, Oakey? or OC A at Townsville? I'm sure you'll get all form the horses mouth!!!
Shaun
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D.U.M spells dumb!
Yeah apparently NZ has decided to buy a handful of NH-90s as well.
Thats two dumb helicopter ideas in a row now for the kiwis.
They have also decided to buy A109s for.. pilot training!
And why, well because aussie bought the Seasprites so NZ did too and aussie bought the '90s so they did as well and then aussie decided to help pilot retention by giving their boys a A109 sqn and so NZ did that too.
Who learns on A109s?? even the poms train on Astars first.
And whats wrong with a Blackhawk to replace the hueys, Sikorsky have just got a contract to make another 1100 of them so theyre going to be around for years yet.
And the NH90, well knowing the airforce 40% of them will be U/S at any one time so there will be about 3 on line on any given day....
Typical dumb kiwi military purchase ....again...
Thats two dumb helicopter ideas in a row now for the kiwis.
They have also decided to buy A109s for.. pilot training!
And why, well because aussie bought the Seasprites so NZ did too and aussie bought the '90s so they did as well and then aussie decided to help pilot retention by giving their boys a A109 sqn and so NZ did that too.
Who learns on A109s?? even the poms train on Astars first.
And whats wrong with a Blackhawk to replace the hueys, Sikorsky have just got a contract to make another 1100 of them so theyre going to be around for years yet.
And the NH90, well knowing the airforce 40% of them will be U/S at any one time so there will be about 3 on line on any given day....
Typical dumb kiwi military purchase ....again...
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Not to mention the flying budget changes, I think the Airforce are in for a shock when they realise that keeping all those pilots current to todays standards just may not be possible even on triple the budget.
At least if we have problems getting the fleet to work we won't just scrap it all and start again
At least if we have problems getting the fleet to work we won't just scrap it all and start again
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TTBB. Clearly you have an axe to grind ("knowing the airforce") Suggestion is that the A109LUH cockpit (MFD's, FMS, 4 axis AP) alone justifies the selection as a lead-in trainer for NH90 simply for the potential saving of training hours on the larger airframe. As a tax payer I can appreciate that. Press releases did not seem to suggest the A109E was ever in contention with the Kiwis, I think it was between the EC635 and A109LUH. So it seems disingenuous to the say they chose 109's because Oz did?
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Freestream.
You are sort of right the first operational MRH will be with the RAN, however, the first 2 are delivered for training and 02 has Navy written on the tail and 03 has Army. I know that its just paint but there will be a bit of a share going on to set up the training system in Townsville. At this point in time the aircraft are identical depite the role.
TTBB
Hadn't heard that Aus had gone for A109, jungle drums havn't got this far yet!!
You are sort of right the first operational MRH will be with the RAN, however, the first 2 are delivered for training and 02 has Navy written on the tail and 03 has Army. I know that its just paint but there will be a bit of a share going on to set up the training system in Townsville. At this point in time the aircraft are identical depite the role.
TTBB
Hadn't heard that Aus had gone for A109, jungle drums havn't got this far yet!!
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just goes to show you, pilots like the Blackhawk.
Could have gone with the Mike, but we went for a left-handed European bag instead.......
Why aren't any of the line drivers consulted when these sorts of decisions are made?
The Baffler
Good, proven robust acft you can throw at the ground that aircrew, tradies etc know...got to be joking.
Throw in an assembly line here in Oz, plus one for EC120 or 30 and a few jobs created...you do the math!
turkey
Throw in an assembly line here in Oz, plus one for EC120 or 30 and a few jobs created...you do the math!
turkey
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"So it seems disingenuous to the say they chose 109's because Oz did?"
Youre right theres absolutely no connection...
Australia Seasprite, NH-90, A109
NZ Seasprite, NH-90, A109
Total coincidence!
Name one other country that bought these 3 types recently...anyone?
Wait for the NH-90 job to go over budget, ask anyone who operates european helicopters, the deal was $780 million and theres only 8 of them and then they had to get 5 A109s to train on as well as a flight simulator for , just for the A109!!
Who trains ab-initio helicopter pilots in a A109? You think thats going to be cheap??
Should have bought Blackhawks.
And thats from a tax payer
Youre right theres absolutely no connection...
Australia Seasprite, NH-90, A109
NZ Seasprite, NH-90, A109
Total coincidence!
Name one other country that bought these 3 types recently...anyone?
Wait for the NH-90 job to go over budget, ask anyone who operates european helicopters, the deal was $780 million and theres only 8 of them and then they had to get 5 A109s to train on as well as a flight simulator for , just for the A109!!
Who trains ab-initio helicopter pilots in a A109? You think thats going to be cheap??
Should have bought Blackhawks.
And thats from a tax payer
The RAN Seasprites are very different to New Zealand's. They are likely to be on the fireground soon anyway:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...-31477,00.html
The A109s are there so that RAN aircrew have something to fly. This apears to be an effort to stop those pilots who have completed their ROSO fm departing for greener pastures and to give those still locked in some flying experience and training.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...-31477,00.html
The A109s are there so that RAN aircrew have something to fly. This apears to be an effort to stop those pilots who have completed their ROSO fm departing for greener pastures and to give those still locked in some flying experience and training.