Emergency Breathing Systems for overwater use
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
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Emergency Breathing Systems for overwater use
The outfit I am working for is investigating the introduction of emergency breathing system (EBS) for pax and crew operating offshore.
Would be interested to hear the view of anyone who has trained and used these things, especially if you've used them in anger.
Do you find they give you more confidence?
What type do you use ie SCBA or re-breather?
How widespread is there use say in USA or UK vs other areas like SE Asia, Africa or Australia?
Would be interested to hear the view of anyone who has trained and used these things, especially if you've used them in anger.
Do you find they give you more confidence?
What type do you use ie SCBA or re-breather?
How widespread is there use say in USA or UK vs other areas like SE Asia, Africa or Australia?
Operating SAR in northen Europe.
We are using HEED III, where the bottle needs to be lifted from it's pocket and placed in mouth. Other systems have a hose extension that I have no experience from, but might be better depending on how easy the bottle is to get out from it's stored position. There is no help with spare air if it is not easy to access!
Never had to use in anger, hope I never will, but in HUET training it is great to be able to take a couple of breaths to calm down, before exiting. My experience is that there is more air in that small bottle than advertised, but during hyperventilating it might be another situation. For a non-diver like myself it is really an experience to breathe below water.
If all theories are right the aircraft will not sink immidiately but there is a fair chanse of rolling upside down. Sitting still breathing (even upside down) until all violent motions stops, and then exit makes sence. Wonder if that theory will be remembered in a real case?
There was a military 412 accident in water 1 or 2 years ago where the inverted helicopter RH cockpit door was not possible to open. The pilot had to go out through the copilot door after first spending time with his own door (he made it though). That is an example where it would really have made a diffrence.
The HEED III have had good service record for us, some units have lost the pressure unexplained, but all in all they have worked very well. It is always the crews responcibilty to check their survuival gear though.
We are using HEED III, where the bottle needs to be lifted from it's pocket and placed in mouth. Other systems have a hose extension that I have no experience from, but might be better depending on how easy the bottle is to get out from it's stored position. There is no help with spare air if it is not easy to access!
Never had to use in anger, hope I never will, but in HUET training it is great to be able to take a couple of breaths to calm down, before exiting. My experience is that there is more air in that small bottle than advertised, but during hyperventilating it might be another situation. For a non-diver like myself it is really an experience to breathe below water.
If all theories are right the aircraft will not sink immidiately but there is a fair chanse of rolling upside down. Sitting still breathing (even upside down) until all violent motions stops, and then exit makes sence. Wonder if that theory will be remembered in a real case?
There was a military 412 accident in water 1 or 2 years ago where the inverted helicopter RH cockpit door was not possible to open. The pilot had to go out through the copilot door after first spending time with his own door (he made it though). That is an example where it would really have made a diffrence.
The HEED III have had good service record for us, some units have lost the pressure unexplained, but all in all they have worked very well. It is always the crews responcibilty to check their survuival gear though.
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When flying over water, I wear a vest and carry a fully charged HEEDS III. I looked at the SCBA and other types, and didn't like them. You may have a little more air, but the extension tube is cumbersome and it could get caught is something. The HEEDS III is always ready, no switch or valve to turn on... just put it in your mouth and inhale. It is small, portable, and you don't have to hold anything once you place the unit in your mouth. I recommend putting a rubber quick-release tab on the carrying strap to make it easier for removal.
Also, I recommend that you spend the extra money on a HEEDS III system WITH a pressure indicator valve. The standard unit has a simple "push & release" system to see if it is charged, but that doesn't tell you how much air is actually in there. Anything less than the top of the green is unacceptable. I've tested mine and I get about 22 FULL PANIC breathes out of it (at least that's what I count when exaggerating my breathing).
Finally, your safety equipment will need a maintenance schedule. Grommets and rubber valves should be replaced annually. In addition, you should apply silicone lubriciant to your o-rings and other areas about once a month (I do it each time I fly over water, but that isn't often for me).
Also, I recommend that you spend the extra money on a HEEDS III system WITH a pressure indicator valve. The standard unit has a simple "push & release" system to see if it is charged, but that doesn't tell you how much air is actually in there. Anything less than the top of the green is unacceptable. I've tested mine and I get about 22 FULL PANIC breathes out of it (at least that's what I count when exaggerating my breathing).
Finally, your safety equipment will need a maintenance schedule. Grommets and rubber valves should be replaced annually. In addition, you should apply silicone lubriciant to your o-rings and other areas about once a month (I do it each time I fly over water, but that isn't often for me).
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Royal Navy and British Army (and prob RAF too) use STASS (Short term air supply system). An air bottle with a divers style regulator attached to our LCJ/LSJ (Load carrying jerkin/life supporting jerkin when fitted with a stole). Its a smallish alloy bottle (about 1/2 a ltr I think) with a diver type regulator filled with pure air. I know of several Navy pilots and crew who have had to use the system due to 'falling off the deck' or ditching and who have survived. We train with the system on a biannual basis (in the Army) and it is a tremendous confindence builder. We do however use it as a secondary means of survival. We rely on using HUET techniques first and STASS as a secondary if we cannot escape entrapment by the usual means. To me it gives me a 'warm' feeling knowing if i cannot get out straight away due to disorientation or snagging problems, I have a bit of a reserve to allow me to survive a bit longer until I can. I know of a Naval Lynx crew that got washed off a deck in horrendous weather and remained calmish as their cab sank, waiting for it to settle, as they knew they could use STASS. When it all settled down, they went onto STASS and emerged upto the surface.
STASS duration. I have seen people in a contolled situation last more than 10 mins on one bottle. I have however seen in the same situation one person drain a bottle in about three gulps!!!
STASS duration. I have seen people in a contolled situation last more than 10 mins on one bottle. I have however seen in the same situation one person drain a bottle in about three gulps!!!
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Thank you very much for the feedback guys.
Another question on the matter; anyone know of companies around the world, particularly in the oil and gas industry, mandating EBS use for all pax and/or crew?
I have been putting together some figures of breath hold time abilities against the anecdotal stories of actual time from cabin submersion to escape and surface. So far there is quite a gap especially involving nationals from certain regions who do not display good confidence in the water.
Another question on the matter; anyone know of companies around the world, particularly in the oil and gas industry, mandating EBS use for all pax and/or crew?
I have been putting together some figures of breath hold time abilities against the anecdotal stories of actual time from cabin submersion to escape and surface. So far there is quite a gap especially involving nationals from certain regions who do not display good confidence in the water.
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Just to clarify Bill.... what we Brits call STASS is the same item the US types call HEED III.
The basic item is marketed by Submersible Systems in Ca as 'Spare Air', a redundant backup for divers. Although the only real differences between the Spare Air and STASS/HEED units are the Spare Air has a flexible top plate/button where the STASS?HEED has a rigid top - to prevent inadvertant partial purging, and the dial gauge is just a basic 'pop pin' device on the Spare Air (it can be replaced with a dial gauge).
The units are generally found in the normal 1.7 cu ft size, however some nations do use the larger 3.0 cu ft version. The only difference being the longer tank (the STASS pocket on an LCJ would be roughly 4in longer). As yet I've only seen the 3.0 cu ft version used by some Dutch crews.
Out of interest, I've heard many divers slating the Spare Air unit as almost useless... they're thinking more of being out of air at depth and requiring stops on the way up. From what little I know, they're probably right. But from an aircrew point of view, where it's more a matter of hit... settle... egress, it does seem to be a damn good idea.
The basic item is marketed by Submersible Systems in Ca as 'Spare Air', a redundant backup for divers. Although the only real differences between the Spare Air and STASS/HEED units are the Spare Air has a flexible top plate/button where the STASS?HEED has a rigid top - to prevent inadvertant partial purging, and the dial gauge is just a basic 'pop pin' device on the Spare Air (it can be replaced with a dial gauge).
The units are generally found in the normal 1.7 cu ft size, however some nations do use the larger 3.0 cu ft version. The only difference being the longer tank (the STASS pocket on an LCJ would be roughly 4in longer). As yet I've only seen the 3.0 cu ft version used by some Dutch crews.
Out of interest, I've heard many divers slating the Spare Air unit as almost useless... they're thinking more of being out of air at depth and requiring stops on the way up. From what little I know, they're probably right. But from an aircrew point of view, where it's more a matter of hit... settle... egress, it does seem to be a damn good idea.
Interestingly, both STASS and HEED systems contain the same amount of air..just the STASS system is at a higher pressure. The dunker were looking at a pax system when I was there last summer..what's come of it?
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I have just done a BOSIET course to spend a week offshore. This included "Re-breather" training. A bag which most north sea passengers wear around their necks that allows them to re-breath their own air while affording time to escape an upside down helicopter in the sea. We did a dunker drill and as I sat there strapped into the up-side-down aircraft under water, I thought to myself... "this is nice.... Hummm...there is the exit....hummm...best get out I suppose!"
The underwater breath hold for an Gold medal swimmer in 10 dec C water was not over 1 minute, BUT JUST 15 SECONDS. Such is due to thermal shock and hyperventilation. To rebreath your own air helps to stop this and would give you about 3 minutes (or more) in which to escape, no matter how fast you breathed.
The bag is large when unfolded but only slightly inflates so you are not hindered in your egress and even if you were, you have lots of time to unhook any loose ends.
I am 100% for stass or re-breathers, but re-breathers seem to have the edge beacause you are not limmited by the speed you breath or a pressure indication error on the stass bottle.
(S76 nth. sea)
The underwater breath hold for an Gold medal swimmer in 10 dec C water was not over 1 minute, BUT JUST 15 SECONDS. Such is due to thermal shock and hyperventilation. To rebreath your own air helps to stop this and would give you about 3 minutes (or more) in which to escape, no matter how fast you breathed.
The bag is large when unfolded but only slightly inflates so you are not hindered in your egress and even if you were, you have lots of time to unhook any loose ends.
I am 100% for stass or re-breathers, but re-breathers seem to have the edge beacause you are not limmited by the speed you breath or a pressure indication error on the stass bottle.
(S76 nth. sea)
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The main reason for the preference of re-breathers over gas-under-pressure systems (STASS/HEEDS) is the reduction of the potential of embolisms. If practical training is called for - as it should be as the 15 seconds breath-hold (that you have correctly identified is the norm in cold seas) indicates that a single action fumble-free implementation is required - it can ensure the avoidance of training risks.
Sue Coleshaw previously of Robert Gordons of Aberdeen produced an excellent treatise on Emergency Breathing Systems (EBS) for the UK CAA some years ago (including case studies). The CAA may have published this paper which also contained the basis of an objective standard for systems which are intended for passenger use. (If it did I’m sure someone will post the reference.)
It was in Canada that the breath-hold issue was researched and on which the figures were based - they conducted practical escape trials that were based upon the AS332. Research is still proceeding into methods of providing a breathing gap in a helicopter that has inverted following a ditching - side floating is seen as one way of achieve this.
Sue Coleshaw previously of Robert Gordons of Aberdeen produced an excellent treatise on Emergency Breathing Systems (EBS) for the UK CAA some years ago (including case studies). The CAA may have published this paper which also contained the basis of an objective standard for systems which are intended for passenger use. (If it did I’m sure someone will post the reference.)
It was in Canada that the breath-hold issue was researched and on which the figures were based - they conducted practical escape trials that were based upon the AS332. Research is still proceeding into methods of providing a breathing gap in a helicopter that has inverted following a ditching - side floating is seen as one way of achieve this.
Last edited by Mars; 21st Aug 2004 at 12:11.
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I carried STASS for a number of years in my previous job and it is an excellent system, yes, you must breathe out on the way to the surface to avoid the risk of embolism.
It also has the considerable advantage that you don't need to have it in your mouth, armed and ready when you enter the water.
With a re-breather system you can blow all the water out of the hose that runs from the bag, if the mouthpiece wasn't in your mouth at water entry BUT ONLY if you are the right way up. I have tried to use the system inverted with it out of my mouth at water entry and you cannot get the water out of the hose. I am assured by the divers at the dunker that even they cannot blow the water out.
So lets take the circumstance of a controlled, or uncontrolled, ditching where the aircraft rapidly inverts after entering the water and before you can put the re-breather in your mouth and arm it. The re-breather is only going to help if you don't mind swallowing all the sea-water in the hose, and that's quite a lot. STASS will function no matter what attitude you are in when you put it in your mouth.
I would strongly suggest that if you are flying the aircraft you are unlikely to have had the time available to the passengers to sort out your re-breather before the aircraft enters the water. I don't work for submersible systems but for me there is no contest, STASS is the better system.
If you don't believe the above try it next visit to the dunker, or ask the divers they will confirm it.
I carried STASS for a number of years in my previous job and it is an excellent system, yes, you must breathe out on the way to the surface to avoid the risk of embolism.
It also has the considerable advantage that you don't need to have it in your mouth, armed and ready when you enter the water.
With a re-breather system you can blow all the water out of the hose that runs from the bag, if the mouthpiece wasn't in your mouth at water entry BUT ONLY if you are the right way up. I have tried to use the system inverted with it out of my mouth at water entry and you cannot get the water out of the hose. I am assured by the divers at the dunker that even they cannot blow the water out.
So lets take the circumstance of a controlled, or uncontrolled, ditching where the aircraft rapidly inverts after entering the water and before you can put the re-breather in your mouth and arm it. The re-breather is only going to help if you don't mind swallowing all the sea-water in the hose, and that's quite a lot. STASS will function no matter what attitude you are in when you put it in your mouth.
I would strongly suggest that if you are flying the aircraft you are unlikely to have had the time available to the passengers to sort out your re-breather before the aircraft enters the water. I don't work for submersible systems but for me there is no contest, STASS is the better system.
If you don't believe the above try it next visit to the dunker, or ask the divers they will confirm it.
As is indicated above by Mars, a definitive paper can be found at the following address:
http://www.caa.co.uk/publications/pu...ls.asp?id=1094
The paper was produced (as can be seen in the CAA preamble) as a result of work that was being undertaken to assess whether the JAA/CAA should produce a technical specification for EBS (at that stage we were worried that passengers might be exposed to risks from the use of this equipment which was being worn at the behest of the oil companies). The majority on the committee considered that a specification should be produced but the CAA took the position that to do so would open them up to a business risk.
As finance and technical expertise was being provided by the CAA, it was difficult to proceed and produce the specification without them.
http://www.caa.co.uk/publications/pu...ls.asp?id=1094
The paper was produced (as can be seen in the CAA preamble) as a result of work that was being undertaken to assess whether the JAA/CAA should produce a technical specification for EBS (at that stage we were worried that passengers might be exposed to risks from the use of this equipment which was being worn at the behest of the oil companies). The majority on the committee considered that a specification should be produced but the CAA took the position that to do so would open them up to a business risk.
As finance and technical expertise was being provided by the CAA, it was difficult to proceed and produce the specification without them.
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The EMS organisation I work for has just recently purchased some "SEA" (Survival Egrees Air) units, they are the lastest aircrew underwater units made by Aqualung,. Transaero is the AUS/NZ distributar and the price is good, Alot less than what we thought we'd be paying.
www.transaero.com
or you can pm me if you want some more info.
BB
www.transaero.com
or you can pm me if you want some more info.
BB
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Apparently CareFlight Queensland is training the Australian Army in the use of the Emergency Breathing System they use. I believe they are also offering commercial training to a number of operators. They might be the people to talk to.
