Why land in Cavendish Square??!!
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 159
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From: UK
Why land in Cavendish Square??!!
Hi,
I was just having my lunch in Cavendish Square today and I was told we had to clear out as the Air Ambulance was landing. I was told this happens quite regularly but I am baffled about something. Why risk such a dangerous landing in one of the windiest parts of London with trees and buildings metres away from the rotors? Why not go to Hyde park, Green park etc which are only a stones throw away and would be much easier and safer to land in?
Anyway, I take my hat off to the pilot - pretty impressive flying!!
Cheers
Foz
I was just having my lunch in Cavendish Square today and I was told we had to clear out as the Air Ambulance was landing. I was told this happens quite regularly but I am baffled about something. Why risk such a dangerous landing in one of the windiest parts of London with trees and buildings metres away from the rotors? Why not go to Hyde park, Green park etc which are only a stones throw away and would be much easier and safer to land in?
Anyway, I take my hat off to the pilot - pretty impressive flying!!
Cheers
Foz
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 696
Likes: 10
From: Shropshire
Not knowing the area, I looked it up on Multimap and it looks like Cavendish square is almost a mile from the parks you mention. While that is not far for a gentle walk, it leaves your average paramedic, doctor (and pilot) gasping a bit when they have to run with kit. Life becomes even more interesting if you have to carry the patient back!
From what you say, it sounds like resources on the ground asked for the aircraft to land at Cavendish Square and cleared the area for it's arrival. I suspect that the square was assessed as the most appropriate landing site for the incident location and the Pilot then has the ultimate decision as to whether it is safe.
There really would not be a logical reason to turn down the landing site on the basis of it being "one of the windiest parts of London" and "trees and buildings metres away from the rotors" is generally speaking, par for the course.
Cheers
TeeS
From what you say, it sounds like resources on the ground asked for the aircraft to land at Cavendish Square and cleared the area for it's arrival. I suspect that the square was assessed as the most appropriate landing site for the incident location and the Pilot then has the ultimate decision as to whether it is safe.
There really would not be a logical reason to turn down the landing site on the basis of it being "one of the windiest parts of London" and "trees and buildings metres away from the rotors" is generally speaking, par for the course.
Cheers
TeeS
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,913
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From: London
"such a dangerous landing"
It's not dangerous to land Cavendish Square.
I've never noticed it's "one of the windiest parts of London" but, even if it was windy, I can't imagine the wind being outside safe operating limits. In the unlikely event that it was, the pilot wouldn't have landed.
"trees and buildings metres away from the rotors?
There are some trees in the Square (not many) but buildings metres away??
"Hyde park, Green park etc which are only a stones throw away and would be much easier and safer to land in?"
A stone's throw away? Are we talking about the same Cavendish Square? Behind John Lewis department store? A suitable landing site in Hyde Park would be about a mile away. If there is a suitable landing site in Green Park, that's the best part of a mile away. I assume the air ambulance was used because it was an emergency - not much point in landing further away than necessary.
One of the great things about helicopters is that they can land virtually anywhere, and in a very small space. From your description, it seems things on the ground were handled efficiently to ensure the helicopter could land safely.
I'm not surprised you were impressed by the flying. Pilots who fly for the emergency services are skilled and experienced.
If it happens regularly, Cavendish Square sounds like a good place to have lunch.
I've never been lucky enough to see it, but I understand the London air ambulance lands at Picadilly Circus when circumstances demand.
It's not dangerous to land Cavendish Square.
I've never noticed it's "one of the windiest parts of London" but, even if it was windy, I can't imagine the wind being outside safe operating limits. In the unlikely event that it was, the pilot wouldn't have landed.
"trees and buildings metres away from the rotors?
There are some trees in the Square (not many) but buildings metres away??
"Hyde park, Green park etc which are only a stones throw away and would be much easier and safer to land in?"
A stone's throw away? Are we talking about the same Cavendish Square? Behind John Lewis department store? A suitable landing site in Hyde Park would be about a mile away. If there is a suitable landing site in Green Park, that's the best part of a mile away. I assume the air ambulance was used because it was an emergency - not much point in landing further away than necessary.
One of the great things about helicopters is that they can land virtually anywhere, and in a very small space. From your description, it seems things on the ground were handled efficiently to ensure the helicopter could land safely.
I'm not surprised you were impressed by the flying. Pilots who fly for the emergency services are skilled and experienced.
If it happens regularly, Cavendish Square sounds like a good place to have lunch.
I've never been lucky enough to see it, but I understand the London air ambulance lands at Picadilly Circus when circumstances demand.
Red On, Green On
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 6,490
Likes: 2
From: Between the woods and the water
Perhaps the medics and/or the aircrew wanted to pop into John Lewis afterwards?
The site will have probably been used before - they have a very comprehensive database of viable landing sites in central London.
The site will have probably been used before - they have a very comprehensive database of viable landing sites in central London.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 159
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From: UK
It would take no more than 5 minutes in an ambulance or police car to get to Hyde Park (Marble Arch end). It didnt seem to be a massive hurry either as the aircraft was on the ground for at least 30 mins before the patient arrived by ambulance.
Just a question, thats all!!
Foz
Just a question, thats all!!
Foz
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,197
Likes: 1
From: UK
Nobody's getting at you Foz, they're just answering your question.
There's simply no need to land further away when there's a perfectly suitable landing site nearer the patient. The Square is assessed as suitable landing site by the experts (or it wouldn't be used) so there's no need to land further away at one of the parks.
I don't think you should read too much into the delay between the helicopter landing and the patient arriving. There could be many reasons for that.
Heliport
There's simply no need to land further away when there's a perfectly suitable landing site nearer the patient. The Square is assessed as suitable landing site by the experts (or it wouldn't be used) so there's no need to land further away at one of the parks.
I don't think you should read too much into the delay between the helicopter landing and the patient arriving. There could be many reasons for that.
Heliport
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,835
Likes: 3
From: Philadelphia PA
I don't know the details of the incident you were witness to, but some background on the HEMS operation might help.
They are called only after some pretty tight screening at the 999 center in London, and dispatch with a doctor on board.
They are able to land within 100 yards of the site of the site in order to make the transfer to the helicopter as quickly as possible. The doctor makes the decision whether to transport the patient by helicopter or ambulance and to which hospital - the ambulance folks don't have nearly as much training or experience as the doctor, which is why the helicopter is so valuable.
And they land in a lot of places where the clearances are tight, probably tighter than Cavendish Square...
They are called only after some pretty tight screening at the 999 center in London, and dispatch with a doctor on board.
They are able to land within 100 yards of the site of the site in order to make the transfer to the helicopter as quickly as possible. The doctor makes the decision whether to transport the patient by helicopter or ambulance and to which hospital - the ambulance folks don't have nearly as much training or experience as the doctor, which is why the helicopter is so valuable.
And they land in a lot of places where the clearances are tight, probably tighter than Cavendish Square...
Gnome de PPRuNe
Joined: Jan 2002
Aviation Qualifications: Spotter
Posts: 15,187
Likes: 1,200
From: Too close to Croydon for comfort
They landed in an area next to my office a few months ago which seems unbelievably tight: trees, street furniture, buildings, etc ...
Originally landed on top of a carpark (from which the patient had fallen), then manoeuvered down some time after doc had jumped out
Fantastic airmanship - and probably marshalling from the ground too! Would that be by a second crew member?
Originally landed on top of a carpark (from which the patient had fallen), then manoeuvered down some time after doc had jumped out
Fantastic airmanship - and probably marshalling from the ground too! Would that be by a second crew member?
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 148
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From: Cornwall
I once saw the HEMS Dauphin in the street outside Charing Cross Hospital, and if he had six feet of clearance from three lamp posts I'd be surprised.
An acquaintance in Richmond has had his garden scouted out by the Air Ambulance people as an emergency landing site. Personally I'd be hard put to park my bike in it, and it makes Cavendish Square look like the Gobi.
Good to know these chaps will fly through the eye of a needle when we need them.
An acquaintance in Richmond has had his garden scouted out by the Air Ambulance people as an emergency landing site. Personally I'd be hard put to park my bike in it, and it makes Cavendish Square look like the Gobi.
Good to know these chaps will fly through the eye of a needle when we need them.
