Errors in FAA Basic Rotorcraft Handbook
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,835
Likes: 3
From: Philadelphia PA
Errors in FAA Basic Rotorcraft Handbook
Over the past year or so, I've noted some errors in the new edition of this book.
I'd like to send a more complete list to the FAA, and so am asking ppruners to send me their lists of errors, pet peeves, etc.
I won't prejudice your comments by telling you what I've found, but I expect the list to be pretty comprehensive when we're done.
I'd like to send a more complete list to the FAA, and so am asking ppruners to send me their lists of errors, pet peeves, etc.
I won't prejudice your comments by telling you what I've found, but I expect the list to be pretty comprehensive when we're done.
Iconoclast
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,132
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From: The home of Dudley Dooright-Where the lead dog is the only one that gets a change of scenery.
The most obvious error.
To: Shawn Coyle
The most obvious error is that they printed the cover backwards.
I received one of the first copies and I immediately notified them of the error. They never acknowledged receipt of my comment and to my knowledge the cover is still printed backwards.
Hopefully they will respond to your comments.
The most obvious error is that they printed the cover backwards.
I received one of the first copies and I immediately notified them of the error. They never acknowledged receipt of my comment and to my knowledge the cover is still printed backwards.
Hopefully they will respond to your comments.
Helicopter Pilots Get It Up Quicker
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 885
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From:
...if you have no luck with the FAA then it might be worth emailing or getting in touch with Tim Tucker as I think he had a large input to it and may have more clout in getting the errors corrected.
I think it would be good to list the errors here as I m sure we won't all find them all and it would be useful for teaching to have an error sheet.
PW
I think it would be good to list the errors here as I m sure we won't all find them all and it would be useful for teaching to have an error sheet.
PW
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,032
Likes: 7
From: OS SX2063
Shawn do you mean AC 61-13B, I ask because someone nicked my copy of the one with the color photo front and lots of nice color diagrams in it.
The funny thing is so many people have plageurised (apologies for spelling) it that there a number of equally erronious websites have been created with exactly (word for word) the same errors in.
The funny thing is so many people have plageurised (apologies for spelling) it that there a number of equally erronious websites have been created with exactly (word for word) the same errors in.
Iconoclast
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 0
From: The home of Dudley Dooright-Where the lead dog is the only one that gets a change of scenery.
Errors can be corrected.
To: Shawn Coyle
Advisory Circular (AC) 61-13B Was superceded by FAA-H-8083-21 Rotorcraft Flying Handbook published in 2000. In addition to the update the new handbook contains all or part of the following Advisory Circulars. AC- 90-87 (Helicopter dynamic rollover); AC-90-95 (Unanticipated right yaw in helicopters); AC-91-32B (Safety in and around helicopters); and AC-91-42D (Hazards of rotating propeller and helicopter rotorblades).
Check this document to see if there are any technical errors. Many of the errors contained in AC-61-13B may have been corrected. The cover is still printed backwards,
Yes, I meant AC 61-13B. The one with the color pictures. You're right about the proliferation of errors, and that's what I'd like to help correct.
Advisory Circular (AC) 61-13B Was superceded by FAA-H-8083-21 Rotorcraft Flying Handbook published in 2000. In addition to the update the new handbook contains all or part of the following Advisory Circulars. AC- 90-87 (Helicopter dynamic rollover); AC-90-95 (Unanticipated right yaw in helicopters); AC-91-32B (Safety in and around helicopters); and AC-91-42D (Hazards of rotating propeller and helicopter rotorblades).
Check this document to see if there are any technical errors. Many of the errors contained in AC-61-13B may have been corrected. The cover is still printed backwards,
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 154
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From: UK
Don't know if this helps ?
http://av-info.faa.gov/data/training...-h-8083-21.pdf
(link is to the 207? page .pdf with pictures in colour)
Bests
MB
http://av-info.faa.gov/data/training...-h-8083-21.pdf
(link is to the 207? page .pdf with pictures in colour)
Bests
MB
Iconoclast
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 0
From: The home of Dudley Dooright-Where the lead dog is the only one that gets a change of scenery.
First quiz of the day.
That's it. Now how can you tell the cover is printed backwards?
No cheating, we operate on the honor system. I have the honor and you guys have the system.
No cheating, we operate on the honor system. I have the honor and you guys have the system.
Iconoclast
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 0
From: The home of Dudley Dooright-Where the lead dog is the only one that gets a change of scenery.
You win the cigar.
To: SimLink Controls
Isn't it strange that you got it when the guys at the FAA Rotorcraft Branch did not.
Well, the picture of the main rotor system is reversed anyway.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,835
Likes: 3
From: Philadelphia PA
My apologies to all - someone has nicked (sorry temporarily borrowed) our version of the new Handbook - it's the new one (FAA-H-8083-21 Rotorcraft Flying Handbook published in 2000) that I wanted to get corrections for.
To start, there is a statement in there that 'autopilots incorporate automatic disengage in turbulence' - obviously wrong.
There is also no mention of range or endurance in the performance section.
Just to start the ball rolling.
To start, there is a statement in there that 'autopilots incorporate automatic disengage in turbulence' - obviously wrong.
There is also no mention of range or endurance in the performance section.
Just to start the ball rolling.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,835
Likes: 3
From: Philadelphia PA
Lighting Boy (and others)
What are we looking for?
Errors, serious omissions, etc.
I'm concerned about the relative state of technical knowledge in the (US) helicopter industry, and it looks like it may all start with this book.
Since you can get an ATP on the basis of this book, and not much else- is it up to the task?
What are we looking for?
Errors, serious omissions, etc.
I'm concerned about the relative state of technical knowledge in the (US) helicopter industry, and it looks like it may all start with this book.
Since you can get an ATP on the basis of this book, and not much else- is it up to the task?
Iconoclast
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 0
From: The home of Dudley Dooright-Where the lead dog is the only one that gets a change of scenery.
To: Shawn Coyle
The readers of this handbook must realize it was published primarily for consumption within the United States. On page 3-4 of the handbook it defines gyroscopic precession and how it relates to helicopter rotor systems. It uses a two-blade system to explain how it works relative to cyclic input. In one case it states that precession is approximately 90-degrees and in another it states 90-degrees. If you follow the logic of the illustrated two-blade system the Robinson blade will dip down 18-degrees after the longitudinal centerline when the cyclic is moved forward.
Some places state that it is aerodynamic precession and people from those areas will argue against the existence of gyroscopic precession on a helicopter.
There are several websites that are closely tied into the Robinson product line and the illustration they use to describe gyroscopic precession is for a Bell helicopter and not a Robinson.
Here is RW-1s website, which shows this same illustration
http://www.dynamicflight.com/aerodynamics/gyro_precess/
This illustration was lifted from the website of Paul Cantrell who is a major contributor to the various Robinson based web pages.
http://www.cybercom.net/~copters/aero/gyro.html
I would like to have some of the Robbie drivers explain why on a Robinson based website they use a Bell drawing to explain gyroscopic precession.
The readers of this handbook must realize it was published primarily for consumption within the United States. On page 3-4 of the handbook it defines gyroscopic precession and how it relates to helicopter rotor systems. It uses a two-blade system to explain how it works relative to cyclic input. In one case it states that precession is approximately 90-degrees and in another it states 90-degrees. If you follow the logic of the illustrated two-blade system the Robinson blade will dip down 18-degrees after the longitudinal centerline when the cyclic is moved forward.
Some places state that it is aerodynamic precession and people from those areas will argue against the existence of gyroscopic precession on a helicopter.
There are several websites that are closely tied into the Robinson product line and the illustration they use to describe gyroscopic precession is for a Bell helicopter and not a Robinson.
Here is RW-1s website, which shows this same illustration
http://www.dynamicflight.com/aerodynamics/gyro_precess/
This illustration was lifted from the website of Paul Cantrell who is a major contributor to the various Robinson based web pages.
http://www.cybercom.net/~copters/aero/gyro.html
I would like to have some of the Robbie drivers explain why on a Robinson based website they use a Bell drawing to explain gyroscopic precession.
