Funding

[Lightning_Boy]

Can anyone suggest ways and ideas of how to fund CPL training. I am desperate to start the training as soon as possible. As everyone who has been in my position will know, it's an expensive game with no guarantees at the end, having already spent over £11K getting my PPL, the old war chest is running low. What would a realistic cost be to obtaining a CPL (I've got about 55hrs). Selling the car and raiding the piggy bank can probibly stump up about £15K. If it was up to me, Id sell the house and go full tilt but the wife soon put me in my place.
As dedicated as I am, obviously I still need to live and having a wife, a young baby and a mortgage to consider just keeps adding to the worry of getting a job even if I can find the rest of the money.
It would be really interesting to know if any of you have been in my position and how you went about it.
Any advise is appreciated.

Thanks
LB

[Bravo 99 (AJB)]

Charlie is right about training over seas I did check it out and its cheaper I have no further experiance of it than that. But can I say please think about the wife and child first then about flying I trained in the uk costs as follows.

PPL about the same but it was 10 years ago
hour building to cpl say at whats a R22 these days sfl say 150 P/H
CPL skills course 8k plus vat
then it gos from there
IR plus type rating to as 355 40K ish
then try an FI course say another 8 k
then at where I am know 350 hours Rated on AS355 B206 R22 FI(R) and twin engine IR and the job prospects are not easly I have these quilifications and I travel the country every couple of weeks trying to find things and I am still looking for work
do it slowly keep her indoors happy and work you way up (SLOWLY) it takes longer but you will get there in the end and not totally skint and wife and child less
Sorry if this sounds sinical it is not ment to be but this is from bitter experiance.

I hope it helps

Charlie is right about the US and I am sure people on the threads will be able to give you plenty of information if that is the route you want to take.
Best of luck

Regards
Bravo 99 (AJB)

[autosync]

I think what the guys are trying to say but are to nice to say it is:


DO NOT BRING YOUR FAMILY's WELFARE INTO YOUR MIDLIFE CRISES!!


If you can not afford it tuff! Not everybody can have everything that they want!

[pohm1]

Autosync is probably right, hard, but fair.

It's like the old saying, if you have to ask, you can't afford.

If, at the end of the day you can stand back having spent everything, not get work, then say "well I had a ball trying" go for it, but it sounds like your circumstances won't allow that?

[NickLappos]

Here are some US companies that specialize on the whole package, shown as examples:


http://www.erau.edu/omni/sp/dbcapt/faq.html

http://www.sierraacademy.com/fs_helicopter.asp

[kates]

I sometimes find myself in the same situation as Lightning boy.

I have PPL H since seven years ago (my age is 29) and have been doing some flying on and off during the years. I have a good and firm career as a management consultant specialised in aviation since a few years ago. I even receive a few hours of helo flying each year from my employer, this year they are giving me a R44 type conversion.

Many days and nights I have thought about leaving my career and instead go for next level of licence and try to build a career as a helopilot. Yes, I know, the odds are low to find a decent job and probably I won't come near what I currently earn as a consultant, but it is a dream I've had for many years.

A lifecrisis? Well I'm not sure. I've tried to analyse the reasons behind my desire and I seem to come back to one special fact: I really really enjoy flying, I appreciate the aviation environment and during the years I have come to know quite few people involved in aviation.

However, the career path of helicopter pilot is not always as attractive as say a fixed-wing airline pilot. The jobs which pays as good as their fixed-wing counterparts are few and far between. As a good friend flying off-shore said a few weeks ago, flying around in a Jet Ranger is not a job with a proper pay. And where I live there is no off-shore flying at all.

Yes, I do have family with two kids, and one is a newly arrived baby. Doing a proper analysis of my situation will most probably result in the recommendation: Don't GO! And this is the decision I took a year ago, a few months ago. But still I keep altering this decision from time to time.

Several times I find myself using the calculator function of my cellphone to calculate how many hours I need, how different hourly rates will effect costs of training and so on.

Decision time is coming next year. I am in the process of finishing up an MBA. Before the MBA degree there will be no CPL-training except for leisure flying.

And I wonder how many times I will take a decision only to reevalute it and take another decision a few weeks after...

[Bravo 99 (AJB)]

The guys are right and I must admit I forgot about the additional 5K for the ground school at Oxford and in all that time earning no salary on top of my original budget above.

I have been looking since Febuary after quilifying as FI(R) and still struggling to get anywhere I have a couple of days per week freelance about to start but it is three hours drive for what could be 2 days flying dependant on the weather if good I could be in the + side if the wheather is bad a big - it is like charlie and the guys above say dont place all hope in this as your main employment .

Again Best of Luck

Regards
Bravo 99 (AJB)


I was trying to find one of the guys above mentioned VAT what I did and would suggest to you if you do go on to this is form a company VAT registered and you can claim the VAT back on the training.

Oxford do not charge VAT on the ground school but the charge some odd figures on the acomadation it is a way of getting something back but it is only a drop in the ocean in terms of the total finacial comitment.

The down side to this is that you need to try to remain self employed for some time to get the VAT Man off your case ( i am still looking in to this and will pass more infor when i have it.) and you have to pay for an accountant. (more expence)

Hope it helps


Regards
Bravo 99 (AJB)

[Lightning_Boy]

Thanks to everyone who has commented on this topic. Everyones advise is very much appreciated. It seems most people feel its a bad move to start a career as a helicopter pilot due to the shortage of employment and poor pay. The only worry I have is that if I dont try it, will I always wonder what if? Any job from this point on I feel will never compare to flying. I know there are a lot of helo pilots out there who are un-employed, spent thousands on training and wished they had never heard of a helicopter, but someone must be happy with the choices they made? Are there any success stories out there
Dont get me wrong, I know being exited and committed is not going to pay the mortgage, but it would be great to have a job which pays you for doing something you enjoy, looking forward to go to work in the mornings, putting a bit of bounce in your step.
O well, once again thanks for all you views, it really has given me food for thought.

Keep it spinning

LB

[boomerangben]

lightning boy,

You are in a very precarious situation. For me you have to look after number 1, and that means you and your family. You seem to be young yet. Save any spare money until you have enough to get at least an instructors rating. Until then forget about helicopters and concentrate on your current career. A career in helicopter flying is hard earned and at the moment is very hard to come by. Concentrate on your own career and see flying as a side line. One day flying will become a viable alternative, but until then take no risks and move the flying on a step at a time.

[DeltaNg]

I recommend the North Sea for a guy like you, its a good apprenticeship and the money is good now. If you're lucky they'll even give you an IR and a shiny rubber suit. To be honest it's the best thing going for a raw CPL'er , apart from instructing, which isn't ideal for a guy with mortgage, kids etc, as the salary isn't fixed. North Sea pay is now about 28k for a guy with <500 hours. After 3-4 years of Puma flying doing about 700-800 hours a year you've got 3000 hours, an ATPL(H)/IR , and a salary of about £45k. If your in the frame you could get a command and a payrise to about £60k. You could then think about downshifting to a job that involves wazzing around but at least you won't be skint. Aberdeen's cheap to live and you could even get some sheep.

[paco]

Lightning_Boy

Have you thought of just doing a PPL, making sure you qualify for a class 1 medical? Leave aside whether you'll keep it current afterwards - at least it will give you something to focus on and get something out of your system.

Many professionals like flying helicopters, but don't like doing it professionally. If I had the sort of money it takes to be a professional in Europe these days, I'd do something else with it and fly on Sundays.

Phil

[Whirlybird]

Whirlybird has the right idea

Thank you...but I haven't posted yet.

At the moment, unless the North Sea have suddenly started recruiting low hours pilots again, the only thing you're likely to be able to do is instruct. Now, do you think you'll like instructing? It's much less about flying than about dealing with people, all sorts of them. At the start, you'll do mainly trial lessons. Personally, I love it. But a love of flying and of all types of people seems to be a pretty rare combination, on the whole. And you won't even to do that much flying; you'll do an awful lot of letting someone who can't fly try to kill you.

If, at the end of the day you can stand back having spent everything, not get work, then say "well I had a ball trying" go for it, but it sounds like your circumstances won't allow that?

Since you've asked, that's roughly what I did. I'm single, the money came from an inheritance and then another windfall (thank god for London property prices!). Sensible people would have bought a new house or gone round the world, but I had the choice, I tried it, and I've no debts. But I also have only a very little freelance instructing work, and so far no likelihood of gettting more. And if I'd had to borrow all the cash and had dependents, although I might have done it, I don't think I could feel so sanguine about it now. In fact, I think I'd be pretty fed up. And when I started my CPL, the North Sea were recruiting; had I known they'd stop, I might have done differently.

Having said that, it's true that "if only" are the two saddest words in the English language. No, you don't want to end up at 70, wishing you'd at least tried. But neither do you want to end up penniless with a broken marriage. Only you can decide.

But if you do go for it...

1)Save up some money first; don't get too much in debt.
2)Register for VAT; very easy, and will save a lot on your training.
3) If career development loans still exist, they're interest free for two or three years...only £8000, but it all helps.
4) Train and hourbuild abroad; I hear South Africa is cheap, though not tried it.
5) Be nice to everyone; in this business who you know makes a lot of difference.

Think hard...and good luck whatever you decide.

[Thomas coupling]

Lightning boy: Get the wife out to work so she can support your hobby....easy!

[Bravo 99 (AJB)]

I think T C has the right idea if she would agree its sorted.

DeltaNG

Boy you a little out of touch with the north sea
free IRs I dont think so
I Paid for my own and everything else going for me for a co jo seat. but I have low hours They are at least wavering and talking to me but its early days.

They are not breaking there necks to take on even though they are short and as regards to taking on a cpl without an IR they would not consider it currently.

Please dont give the guy false hope he need hard fact a little brutal at times but he need the correct information if he makes the wrong choice based on duff information his life could be miserable for a long time.

Lightning boy as before think safe think wife and kids and play at this on the side best way to do it. unless you have all the capital and it is surplus to do it.

Again Regards
Bravo 99 (AJB)

[Lightning_Boy]

Thats the other thing, I'm 28, is that past it? its taken me until now to get half the way there, PPL and half the funds that is.

Keep the comments coming guys, their all much appreciated

LB

[Bravo 99 (AJB)]

Interesting piont to be fair we did discuss this at Oxford when I did my G/School I wont bore you but give you an insite me I am 43 due 44 in July

A lad on the same course applied to bond offshore at the time they did the big splash in flight international he was 19 he wrote to bond and told them that he would be out of flight school with a fresh cpl H they wrote back to him and I think the jist was bog off He looked a little miffed when he got his letter.

I wrote to them and got the responce was I asking for sponsorship for an IR and when would I be completed on my course I did get a second letter a few weeks later saying that they where then not going to sponsor lower hour pilots.

so difficult to Judge but I have found since then talking to CHC a lot. my age I think has actually helped not in terms of experiance (flying wise) but in general life + fire service time helps as well.

So as stated above difficult to fully judge Lightening boy at 28 I think is about the right age for them to consider him life soiled so to speak but not to old to be of no use.

back to my case I think had I not got the IR and twin rating I dont think I would be of interest to then so much as if i was 28 I still think that my service time although not military has some bearing as they like stayers and someone from disaplined backround .

Well sermon over thats what I think but I could be miles off the plot.


But after saying that i am still trying hard to get fully employed but the work is coming slowly but it is very slow

Regards
Bravo 99(AJB)