Helicopter Aeros & Display Flying
Senis Semper Fidelis
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Heliport your a Star, next to Neville Duke these two guys were my boyhood Hero's, always wanted to do their job, sad really finished up pushin big rigs around Europe!!
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Display Advice
I, for one, am always excited to see older aircraft flying at airshows rather than sitting in the static area. I have always stopped to watch whenever G-MASH does a flyby because it is history. Good luck to you!
Here are a few general tips I have learned over the years about helicopter flying displays:
1. Restrict your display to no more than 5 minutes. It is better to leave them wanting more than having them walk away because they have seen too much.
2. If you are repeating any maneuver more than twice the routine you are flying is probably too long.
3. Use smoke if possible. Smoke adds to visibility to a small and relatively quiet aircraft. Smoke in a maneuver like a vertical auto when it boils around the rotor can be very exciting.
4. Center your show but do not forget to work the lateral limits of the show line. Plan at least one maneuver at the far left, far right and at the center of the show box. Many people forget the cheap seats in favor of the VIP's-please do not be one.
5. Use music and time your maneuvers to coincide with the music where possible.
6. Do not spend a lot of time hovering unless you are picking something up, putting something down or posing for photographs. Where possible keep moving and always move in three dimensions.
7. Associate your display with a theme (MASH, Whirlybirds, Blue Thunder, Flying Farmer or whatever tickles your fancy)
8. Never, ever dust off the spectators with rotor wash. Doing so is extremely poor form.
9. Never do anything your aircraft is not safely capable of doing.
10. Commit your routine to paper, practice your routine until it can be performed on a subconscious level, and never deviate (add or subtract) from what you have practiced.
11. Cancel a display when you feel bad, the aircraft is not perfect, the weather is uncooperative, or the planets aren't aligned correctly. Never continue because you don't want to let down your sponsors, the show, or the people.
12. Calculate and be aware of turning radius, scatter distance, and performance for each venue.
Heliport-Thanks for the Whirlybirds photographs. Awesome! I love those guys (in a manly sort of way of course!).
Here are a few general tips I have learned over the years about helicopter flying displays:
1. Restrict your display to no more than 5 minutes. It is better to leave them wanting more than having them walk away because they have seen too much.
2. If you are repeating any maneuver more than twice the routine you are flying is probably too long.
3. Use smoke if possible. Smoke adds to visibility to a small and relatively quiet aircraft. Smoke in a maneuver like a vertical auto when it boils around the rotor can be very exciting.
4. Center your show but do not forget to work the lateral limits of the show line. Plan at least one maneuver at the far left, far right and at the center of the show box. Many people forget the cheap seats in favor of the VIP's-please do not be one.
5. Use music and time your maneuvers to coincide with the music where possible.
6. Do not spend a lot of time hovering unless you are picking something up, putting something down or posing for photographs. Where possible keep moving and always move in three dimensions.
7. Associate your display with a theme (MASH, Whirlybirds, Blue Thunder, Flying Farmer or whatever tickles your fancy)
8. Never, ever dust off the spectators with rotor wash. Doing so is extremely poor form.
9. Never do anything your aircraft is not safely capable of doing.
10. Commit your routine to paper, practice your routine until it can be performed on a subconscious level, and never deviate (add or subtract) from what you have practiced.
11. Cancel a display when you feel bad, the aircraft is not perfect, the weather is uncooperative, or the planets aren't aligned correctly. Never continue because you don't want to let down your sponsors, the show, or the people.
12. Calculate and be aware of turning radius, scatter distance, and performance for each venue.
Heliport-Thanks for the Whirlybirds photographs. Awesome! I love those guys (in a manly sort of way of course!).
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Thanks everyone very much for some great advice and apologies for the delay - I've been away.
Tracy Martin (G-MASH) has been very helpful - we're planning to meet soon and I'll follow up all the other contacts.
Will keep you posted!
Ta.
Tracy Martin (G-MASH) has been very helpful - we're planning to meet soon and I'll follow up all the other contacts.
Will keep you posted!
Ta.
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Having flown displays at several dozen airshows, including Paris in front of 125,000 people (it was something I will never forget!!)let me chime in:
1) Do only comfortable maneuvers. A maneuver that takes the aircraft to 90% of its limit and a maneuver that rips the guts out of the machine look about the same to the crowd. Don't kill yourself for that extra 10%.
2) Do what helos do, it is simply amazing enough to sell itself. Go straight up, make pedal turns while doing so. Stop dead. Go sidewards. They see all the airplane stuff, show them what we do that is different.
3) Make every show just like the last one, and make them all like the one you practice. The way to tell a show pilot from a cowboy is the consistancy and practice.
4) Never go toward the crowd, ever. Never bust the show line, or the show box, ever.
5) Have fun.
1) Do only comfortable maneuvers. A maneuver that takes the aircraft to 90% of its limit and a maneuver that rips the guts out of the machine look about the same to the crowd. Don't kill yourself for that extra 10%.
2) Do what helos do, it is simply amazing enough to sell itself. Go straight up, make pedal turns while doing so. Stop dead. Go sidewards. They see all the airplane stuff, show them what we do that is different.
3) Make every show just like the last one, and make them all like the one you practice. The way to tell a show pilot from a cowboy is the consistancy and practice.
4) Never go toward the crowd, ever. Never bust the show line, or the show box, ever.
5) Have fun.
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A Crazy Question
Howdy all,
When I was in army flight school, I saw a video of specially modified Apache and Blackhawk doing loops and rolls. I have also seen on Wings Discovery Channel a few other birds really tearing up the sky. What helicopters are capable of aerobatic manuevers? What are the design considerations? And the most important aspect, pilot technique? The reason I ask is because whenever this army thing gets old for me, I want to get a helicopter and do airshows. I know it would be easier to get a Pitts and do it, but I just like helicopters to much to turn on them (my Blackhawk saved my #ss several times in Iraq...908, what a bad #ss bird!). Thanks for you input, have a great day.
Fly Army,
Vince Rodgers
When I was in army flight school, I saw a video of specially modified Apache and Blackhawk doing loops and rolls. I have also seen on Wings Discovery Channel a few other birds really tearing up the sky. What helicopters are capable of aerobatic manuevers? What are the design considerations? And the most important aspect, pilot technique? The reason I ask is because whenever this army thing gets old for me, I want to get a helicopter and do airshows. I know it would be easier to get a Pitts and do it, but I just like helicopters to much to turn on them (my Blackhawk saved my #ss several times in Iraq...908, what a bad #ss bird!). Thanks for you input, have a great day.
Fly Army,
Vince Rodgers
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For the record, neither the AH-64A nor AH-64D Apaches used for aerial display are, or ever were, specially modified. No unusual loads are experienced during the displays. No special or display unique maintenance is required after performing a display.
Every helicopter flying has some aerobatic ability. In some helicopters small deviations from limits are fatal.
Every helicopter flying has some aerobatic ability. In some helicopters small deviations from limits are fatal.
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Rich,
I can say the same for the aerobatic flights in the Black Hawk and Fantail demonstrator, since I flew some of those scenes.
It doesn't take modification to fly aerobatics in a modern, high control power helicopter (like a Boelkow, Black Hawk, Apache or Comanche) but it does take reasonably special knowledge. If you mess the maneuver up, you could really cause problems for yourself or the machine, including rotor head damage, blade strikes on the airframe, or sudden meetings with the ground.
In short, those maneuvers are great for Discovery Channel shows or magazine covers, but they are of little use tactically, and leave little margin for error. Like the small print at the bottom of the car ads when the family sedan is shown rat-racing down the walls of the Grand Canyon, "Professional drivers on closed course. Do not try this at home."
I can say the same for the aerobatic flights in the Black Hawk and Fantail demonstrator, since I flew some of those scenes.
It doesn't take modification to fly aerobatics in a modern, high control power helicopter (like a Boelkow, Black Hawk, Apache or Comanche) but it does take reasonably special knowledge. If you mess the maneuver up, you could really cause problems for yourself or the machine, including rotor head damage, blade strikes on the airframe, or sudden meetings with the ground.
In short, those maneuvers are great for Discovery Channel shows or magazine covers, but they are of little use tactically, and leave little margin for error. Like the small print at the bottom of the car ads when the family sedan is shown rat-racing down the walls of the Grand Canyon, "Professional drivers on closed course. Do not try this at home."
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Hoss
Welcome to the forum.
You may have missed these pictures which appeared earlier this year.
If anyone has any pics of the Black Hawk and Fantail demonstrator in similar mode, please post them.
Anyone at all ............ Nick?
Welcome to the forum.
You may have missed these pictures which appeared earlier this year.
If anyone has any pics of the Black Hawk and Fantail demonstrator in similar mode, please post them.
Anyone at all ............ Nick?
Join Date: Aug 2003
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I seem to remember that the Cheyenne, plus some other exotic 'one-off's' were destroyed in a fire at a helicopter museum somewhere.
Nick, True or False?
This thread confirms my worst suspicions, 8500 hrs in a Hughes 300 and never looped or rolled it. I MUST be a chicken.
Nick, True or False?
This thread confirms my worst suspicions, 8500 hrs in a Hughes 300 and never looped or rolled it. I MUST be a chicken.
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lowlevl,
I'm at Fort Rucker now, going through the IP course, and at the museum is a Cheyenne sitting out near the parking lot. Though they put a fresh coat of paint on her, she is corroding badly. Sad site.
Fly Army,
Vince Rodgers
Heliport, thanks for the photos, those are awesome.
Mr. Lappos and Mr. Lee, thanks for your advice, I know that you guys have thousands of hours and experience to what you say.
Mr. Lee and Mr. Lappos, what civil helicopters do you all believe would be a good aerobatic demonstrator? I won't try this stuff in an army ship, as they would really be pissed! But I really am serious about getting into the airshow arena. Though, this will all have to wait a while as I am currently in the IP course and about to head off to Europe. Thanks and have a great day.
Fly Army,
Vince Rodgers
PS. How do you guys like test flying? I have 15 years to go to retirement and I can't see myself just being a Blackhawk driver for that entire time, I would like to contribute to another area when I have more experience. Though my degree is not in engineering, I have started working on my Masters in Aeronautics (Embry-Riddle) and am looking at also taking some college math courses to see if it's suitable to me.
I'm at Fort Rucker now, going through the IP course, and at the museum is a Cheyenne sitting out near the parking lot. Though they put a fresh coat of paint on her, she is corroding badly. Sad site.
Fly Army,
Vince Rodgers
Heliport, thanks for the photos, those are awesome.
Mr. Lappos and Mr. Lee, thanks for your advice, I know that you guys have thousands of hours and experience to what you say.
Mr. Lee and Mr. Lappos, what civil helicopters do you all believe would be a good aerobatic demonstrator? I won't try this stuff in an army ship, as they would really be pissed! But I really am serious about getting into the airshow arena. Though, this will all have to wait a while as I am currently in the IP course and about to head off to Europe. Thanks and have a great day.
Fly Army,
Vince Rodgers
PS. How do you guys like test flying? I have 15 years to go to retirement and I can't see myself just being a Blackhawk driver for that entire time, I would like to contribute to another area when I have more experience. Though my degree is not in engineering, I have started working on my Masters in Aeronautics (Embry-Riddle) and am looking at also taking some college math courses to see if it's suitable to me.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Mid 90's I was involved in getting a photograph of a GazelleAH1 inverted with a backdrop of the White Horse at Sutton Bank N.Yorkshire.
After MANY attempts the final photo is a pearler.
I don't have a copy myself that I can locate, but know a man who does and will try and post it.
In answer to the original question a helicopter cant 'fly' upside down as in FW speak. If you were to maintain the attitude, the last thing to go through your mind would be a white nav light!
Its like saying you can jump to the moon, but in reality you can only manage to go about a foot and a half !
Cheers, SS
After MANY attempts the final photo is a pearler.
I don't have a copy myself that I can locate, but know a man who does and will try and post it.
In answer to the original question a helicopter cant 'fly' upside down as in FW speak. If you were to maintain the attitude, the last thing to go through your mind would be a white nav light!
Its like saying you can jump to the moon, but in reality you can only manage to go about a foot and a half !
Cheers, SS
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Here are a couple of clips taken from an R44 while flying the London Heli-Lanes (thanks to SteveR for hosting them):
Shots of London following the heli-lane along the Thames from East to West, Millenium Dome to the Battersea Heliport (39Mb): London
Shots of Heathrow following the heli-lane South to North (24Mb): Heathrow
A bit of fun (39Mb): ateam
Updated version of the ateam vid which should be more compatible with most systems (and only 16Mb): a-team
Thanks also to rotorcraig for various bits of the flying and camera work (but not at the same time!). He is also responsible for the A-Team idea. I take no responsibility for anything.
Shots of London following the heli-lane along the Thames from East to West, Millenium Dome to the Battersea Heliport (39Mb): London
Shots of Heathrow following the heli-lane South to North (24Mb): Heathrow
A bit of fun (39Mb): ateam
Updated version of the ateam vid which should be more compatible with most systems (and only 16Mb): a-team
Thanks also to rotorcraig for various bits of the flying and camera work (but not at the same time!). He is also responsible for the A-Team idea. I take no responsibility for anything.
Last edited by 221B; 31st Dec 2003 at 01:04.
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Helicopter Stunt
I saw, very briefly, on the tv the other night a helicopter doing what appeared to be a high speed low level pass down the Brisbane River with the skids actually skipping along the water.
The stunt was performed as part of World Expo 88 and I was curious to know if anyone can tell me who performed it and how it was done etc.
The stunt was performed as part of World Expo 88 and I was curious to know if anyone can tell me who performed it and how it was done etc.
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I did a pairs display in a B206 for Expo 88 along the Brisbane river, but I don't remember dragging the skids along the water! (at least not that I knew about! ) Was it a B206 that you saw on the video? More memorable for me was a night display which I did for the FM104 skyshow in Bne a year later (don't try this at home kids) anyone who performs stunts at night must need their head tested....!
Apollo
Apollo
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I'm in danger of giving away my identity here! but what the hell! Most of my earlier antics at helicopter display flying were in the pre-digital age and the only records I have are your average glossy print taken by my faithful wife. In later years I performed as part of the Blue Eagles display team (i've done it now!) an there are a number of photo's available on their website including one or two when I was in the team. Anyone who went to Fairford in '93 (famous for the mid air of 2 x Mig 29's) will hopefully remember quite an impressive display by our team. While I'm on the subject - any of my old team pals reading this send me a PM, be good to know where you are now.
Apollo
Overpitched: In answer to your original question I do remember now who performed the particular stunt that you are referring to. A guy call Ross Rundle. He was in my opinion one of the most skillful helicopter pilots I have ever come across, and to answer your question as to how he did it? illegally for one! but he had such fine control of his aircraft that he got away with it. Those living in QLD in the mid - late 80's may have seen him perform his solo "snoopy" routine, with a piece of rope attached to the skid and a loyal assistant on the ground, great entertainment, don't know if anything like that still goes on. For my German collegues the greatest helicopter display pilot probably the world ever saw was the late Capt Charlie Zimmerman, saw his display in a BO 105 in Hanover many years ago, quite unbelievable. I'd be intersested to know if helicopter displaying is still alive and kicking. There used to be some great teams (RN Sharks, Grasshoppers etc) and some great parties!
Apollo
Overpitched: In answer to your original question I do remember now who performed the particular stunt that you are referring to. A guy call Ross Rundle. He was in my opinion one of the most skillful helicopter pilots I have ever come across, and to answer your question as to how he did it? illegally for one! but he had such fine control of his aircraft that he got away with it. Those living in QLD in the mid - late 80's may have seen him perform his solo "snoopy" routine, with a piece of rope attached to the skid and a loyal assistant on the ground, great entertainment, don't know if anything like that still goes on. For my German collegues the greatest helicopter display pilot probably the world ever saw was the late Capt Charlie Zimmerman, saw his display in a BO 105 in Hanover many years ago, quite unbelievable. I'd be intersested to know if helicopter displaying is still alive and kicking. There used to be some great teams (RN Sharks, Grasshoppers etc) and some great parties!