FAA - JAA conversion
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FAA - JAA conversion
Currently I have an FAA commercial, Instrument and CFII.
I have 1200 hrs, including 150 hrs bell 206, 100 hrs R-44, and 100 hrs night.
Can anybody advise me how, where and for how much I can convert my license to the JAA standard (Netherlands) or anywhere in Europe.
HAI (Florida) only has as far as I know a complete program, and I am more interested in a conversion course.
I appreciate your help, thanks
I have 1200 hrs, including 150 hrs bell 206, 100 hrs R-44, and 100 hrs night.
Can anybody advise me how, where and for how much I can convert my license to the JAA standard (Netherlands) or anywhere in Europe.
HAI (Florida) only has as far as I know a complete program, and I am more interested in a conversion course.
I appreciate your help, thanks
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FAA to JAA???
Hey all,
I know this topic has been talked about on and off, but I just wanted to ask a few more points, keeping it up to date.
Basically I am an FAA CFII rated pilot, with over 1000 hours (pretty much all piston) and I am planning to go to England to do my JAA CPL or Frozen ATPL (obviously not sure which one to do).
There are a few questions I would like to ask about all this, if anyone would be able to help, it would be great.
1. I plan on doing the residential crash course in England, and seem to be looking between Cabair and Oxford. Does anyone have any input on preference to one or other, or any other school they could recommend.
2. I heard that they may be changing the requirements soon, something about not having to do all 14 exams. And does this have anything to do with doing just the JAA CPL instead of the frozen JAA ATPL.
3. Does anyone have any idea what the job market is like in the England/Ireland area for someone with 1000 hours (50/50 instructor and commercial work, with jet ranger, 300CB, 44 and 22 time).
4. I have my FAA instrument, but would no way be able to afford my JAA instrument, making the Frozen ATPL a bit useless. But do companies sponsor you for that if you got into the market, or is it something you always have to pay for yourself. As many of my friends and family keep reminding me off, that in this industry you seem to just keep paying more, and more to get a job.
Basically I am jsut looking for an all round heads up on what to expect in returning to Europe. Schooling, expenses, job market and anything else anybody deems important to know about.
Thanks for all your help.
I know this topic has been talked about on and off, but I just wanted to ask a few more points, keeping it up to date.
Basically I am an FAA CFII rated pilot, with over 1000 hours (pretty much all piston) and I am planning to go to England to do my JAA CPL or Frozen ATPL (obviously not sure which one to do).
There are a few questions I would like to ask about all this, if anyone would be able to help, it would be great.
1. I plan on doing the residential crash course in England, and seem to be looking between Cabair and Oxford. Does anyone have any input on preference to one or other, or any other school they could recommend.
2. I heard that they may be changing the requirements soon, something about not having to do all 14 exams. And does this have anything to do with doing just the JAA CPL instead of the frozen JAA ATPL.
3. Does anyone have any idea what the job market is like in the England/Ireland area for someone with 1000 hours (50/50 instructor and commercial work, with jet ranger, 300CB, 44 and 22 time).
4. I have my FAA instrument, but would no way be able to afford my JAA instrument, making the Frozen ATPL a bit useless. But do companies sponsor you for that if you got into the market, or is it something you always have to pay for yourself. As many of my friends and family keep reminding me off, that in this industry you seem to just keep paying more, and more to get a job.
Basically I am jsut looking for an all round heads up on what to expect in returning to Europe. Schooling, expenses, job market and anything else anybody deems important to know about.
Thanks for all your help.
Murdock,
The more pressing issue is whether you have the "right to work" in the UK....without that all the rest is good money after bad.
The more pressing issue is whether you have the "right to work" in the UK....without that all the rest is good money after bad.
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Murdock - Contact Tony Harkin, Aero. Inspector @ the IAA, Aviation House, Dublin 2 Tel: 353 1 6718655 or their website @ iaa.ie
He works Heli FCL and will advise accordingly.
Good Luck
He works Heli FCL and will advise accordingly.
Good Luck
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Thanks Charlie and Helipolarbear,
After going through a lot of things these last few days I am starting to get some other ideas. In particular I was thinking of just doing my JAA CPL(H).
I am trying to figure the benfits and non-benefits of this.
So far I have worked out that you only need to do 9 JAA exams instead of 13 for the ATPL. And I cant findany places that offer residential couurses for just the CPL. Bristol GS would seem to be the best option for this.
The main reason I am thinking of doing the CPL instead of the ATPL is that, for the ATPL to become un-frozen, one would have to do their JAA IR(H), which I am told is £20,000. And you would only ever get to use an IR(H) in a twin turbine engine. I am trying to think of when this might come about in my future unless I work for offshore companies, and would imagine they would sponsor you for it, as I would no way be able to afford that. Paid enough to get to where I am at the moment, and still paying!
What I dont fully understand and will keep asking, is that it seems from what I am told, depending upon your experience and what a flight school that you are doing your JAA CPL(H) decides, there is no specific amount of flying training needed. i.e. you may have to do 5 or 30 hours of training, entirely up to the Flight school. Is this situtation correct and is it the same for if I went and did my ATPL(H) ground school? What kind of flying training do I need to get my JAA ATPL(H) after having the experience that I do.
And would I be better off getting my FAA ATPL(H) before I leave America, as I am a J1'er, and then trying to do my JAA ATPL(H).
Also, does anyone know when the JAA plans on completing the JAA CLP(H) or JAA ATPL(H) system. As of the moment they seem to be still riding of fixed wing ways, and they talk about this changing around Xmas 2004.
Thanks for all your help guys.
After going through a lot of things these last few days I am starting to get some other ideas. In particular I was thinking of just doing my JAA CPL(H).
I am trying to figure the benfits and non-benefits of this.
So far I have worked out that you only need to do 9 JAA exams instead of 13 for the ATPL. And I cant findany places that offer residential couurses for just the CPL. Bristol GS would seem to be the best option for this.
The main reason I am thinking of doing the CPL instead of the ATPL is that, for the ATPL to become un-frozen, one would have to do their JAA IR(H), which I am told is £20,000. And you would only ever get to use an IR(H) in a twin turbine engine. I am trying to think of when this might come about in my future unless I work for offshore companies, and would imagine they would sponsor you for it, as I would no way be able to afford that. Paid enough to get to where I am at the moment, and still paying!
What I dont fully understand and will keep asking, is that it seems from what I am told, depending upon your experience and what a flight school that you are doing your JAA CPL(H) decides, there is no specific amount of flying training needed. i.e. you may have to do 5 or 30 hours of training, entirely up to the Flight school. Is this situtation correct and is it the same for if I went and did my ATPL(H) ground school? What kind of flying training do I need to get my JAA ATPL(H) after having the experience that I do.
And would I be better off getting my FAA ATPL(H) before I leave America, as I am a J1'er, and then trying to do my JAA ATPL(H).
Also, does anyone know when the JAA plans on completing the JAA CLP(H) or JAA ATPL(H) system. As of the moment they seem to be still riding of fixed wing ways, and they talk about this changing around Xmas 2004.
Thanks for all your help guys.
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Thanks again Charlie,
The practical training "as required" is an interesting situatiuon.
Having spoken to a few schools it seems that you may be exempt from a certain amount of hours(i.e. if you have night flying already, they will take 5 off). One person at a school told me to call the CAA to find out exactly how many hours practical training you are exempt for getting the CPL(H). The CAA told me today that it is entirely up to the school to decide how many hours you need for the CPL(H). As you said, dictated by the school's head of training. This kinda puts you in strange situation, as one could say if I school felt they werent getting enough income they might tell you, you need the full 30 hours training, costing you quite a bit. Or you might find a school saying that you only need 10 hours of training, costing you a substantial amount less.
I know this situation is cirumstancial, but it doesnt seem to be a very logical system. Requires putting a lot of faith in the school and trusting them. I suppose as we have always done when it comes to training, and being told how much money we have to spend. So I wont go on about that. But I do believe it is a particular area the JAA/CAA need to be a little more definitive about.
I also learned today from a Atlantic Flight Training Ltd, that if you just do the JAA CPL(H) route, and do the 9 exams, then later on if you decide to do the ATPL(H), for whatever reason, you have to go back and do all 14 (or 13, as different schools keep telling me differently, even though I believe you are correct Charlie) exams from the start. Which puts me back into the predicament of wondering what the chances of getting an ATP job are.
Anyhow, I think after all my reading and talking to people, I will do the ATPL(H) course and go from there, at least it might look good on my CV.
Also, thanks for the heads up on the medical issue Charlie. When I booked it earlier on in the week, I told the woman that I was already a rated pilot, and she said then I only had to pay £250 for th initial Class 1, instead of £422. Nice pocket change saver there!
Out of interest, would anyone be able to tell me what other jobs, other than offshore, would you need and ATPL(H) license for? As is my understanding, in Europe, under the JAR's, you can't get an instrument license on a commercial license. So that would lead me to assume that any job that requires you to fly an instrument ship in IFR conditions, would mean you have to have and ATPL(H) for that job.
Thanks again.
The practical training "as required" is an interesting situatiuon.
Having spoken to a few schools it seems that you may be exempt from a certain amount of hours(i.e. if you have night flying already, they will take 5 off). One person at a school told me to call the CAA to find out exactly how many hours practical training you are exempt for getting the CPL(H). The CAA told me today that it is entirely up to the school to decide how many hours you need for the CPL(H). As you said, dictated by the school's head of training. This kinda puts you in strange situation, as one could say if I school felt they werent getting enough income they might tell you, you need the full 30 hours training, costing you quite a bit. Or you might find a school saying that you only need 10 hours of training, costing you a substantial amount less.
I know this situation is cirumstancial, but it doesnt seem to be a very logical system. Requires putting a lot of faith in the school and trusting them. I suppose as we have always done when it comes to training, and being told how much money we have to spend. So I wont go on about that. But I do believe it is a particular area the JAA/CAA need to be a little more definitive about.
I also learned today from a Atlantic Flight Training Ltd, that if you just do the JAA CPL(H) route, and do the 9 exams, then later on if you decide to do the ATPL(H), for whatever reason, you have to go back and do all 14 (or 13, as different schools keep telling me differently, even though I believe you are correct Charlie) exams from the start. Which puts me back into the predicament of wondering what the chances of getting an ATP job are.
Anyhow, I think after all my reading and talking to people, I will do the ATPL(H) course and go from there, at least it might look good on my CV.
Also, thanks for the heads up on the medical issue Charlie. When I booked it earlier on in the week, I told the woman that I was already a rated pilot, and she said then I only had to pay £250 for th initial Class 1, instead of £422. Nice pocket change saver there!
Out of interest, would anyone be able to tell me what other jobs, other than offshore, would you need and ATPL(H) license for? As is my understanding, in Europe, under the JAR's, you can't get an instrument license on a commercial license. So that would lead me to assume that any job that requires you to fly an instrument ship in IFR conditions, would mean you have to have and ATPL(H) for that job.
Thanks again.
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Charlie S Charlie,
What on earth difference can an engine type make to your ability to fly on instruments. Did i miss something?????? Or has your authority gone totally bonkers.
By the way Charlie I find your posts very informative and well researched, you make some of the boring bits interesting, thanks.
I could forget all the instrument time I have on pistons.
By the way Charlie I find your posts very informative and well researched, you make some of the boring bits interesting, thanks.
Ah....this does bring back such pleasant memories of converting my FAA ATPL with Instrument Rating to the UK ATPL with IR. Golly, gee....doing all those exams...1179's for several different types of helicopter....General Handling Tests.....wonder how I ever managed to get by. Knowing things like Lord Halliburton's rules....cam timing.....plotting courses on all sorts of maps I had never heard of....but not one Texaco map in the bunch....figgering other aircraft's courses by looking at their nav lights....knowing what lights, signs, and signals an underway but without power Lighter than airship would display at night.....zzzzzzzzzz!
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I think that bit about piston engined helicopters and the IR is b*ll*cks. I did my Canadian one on a 206, but I could have done it on a Robbie and it still would have been worth the 25 hours reduction in total hours. Luckily I also have a UK fixed wing one which reduces the requirement down to 15 - this may also be a route worth following. If the FAA one is an ICAO one, then I don't see the problem. That "well respected training organisation" needs a reality check - my IR training in the Sioux was better than anything as a background for future IR flying. but then, they mentioned VMC, which is totally irrelevant.
Phil
Phil
