What records should be set by helicopters?
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What records should be set by helicopters?
I'm curious to know what ppruner's think would be realistic and meaningful records for helicopters to set.
The current ones (maximum absolute height, speed, distance) don't readily translate into anything that is of much use operationally.
Maybe we need to suggest that for different classes of helicopters, the maximum weight to hover in ground effect and out of ground effect at some operationally meaningful altitudes and temperature conditions, or the maximum weight lifted clear fo the ground under some specified conditions or the maximum altitude for hover in and out of ground effect might be more useful.
Any suggestions?
The current ones (maximum absolute height, speed, distance) don't readily translate into anything that is of much use operationally.
Maybe we need to suggest that for different classes of helicopters, the maximum weight to hover in ground effect and out of ground effect at some operationally meaningful altitudes and temperature conditions, or the maximum weight lifted clear fo the ground under some specified conditions or the maximum altitude for hover in and out of ground effect might be more useful.
Any suggestions?
Yeah - how about:
"The first aircraft to take pilot crash survivability seriously, by installing padded surfaces around doorframes, and installing airbags, softening instrument panel surfaces and switches, and putting in a coffee cup holder that allows for a handle."
Or is that five records? Of course, the coffee can't be spilled in the crash. I think Lockheed has coffee pots that survive nuclear blasts, so they could be prime contractor.
"The first aircraft to take pilot crash survivability seriously, by installing padded surfaces around doorframes, and installing airbags, softening instrument panel surfaces and switches, and putting in a coffee cup holder that allows for a handle."
Or is that five records? Of course, the coffee can't be spilled in the crash. I think Lockheed has coffee pots that survive nuclear blasts, so they could be prime contractor.
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Call me naive, but range (or operating radius, or however you would like to describe it), and endurance - not necessarily the same thing, of course. Certainly split by class of machine.
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I was at Davis Montan sp? in Virginia once receiving a shed load of quality banter from F15 drivers who were clearly enoying getting paid for having a ball. As a gesture of banter:
Quickest circuit:
Lift to 10`agl > Gear up> 360` turn > Gear down > Land.
Threshold to 2000` in the minimum distance?
Helicopter beat the F15 on that one to.
Minimum take off speed, no lets make it negative take off speed, best demo Ive seen of that was a Chinook.
Quickest circuit:
Lift to 10`agl > Gear up> 360` turn > Gear down > Land.
Threshold to 2000` in the minimum distance?
Helicopter beat the F15 on that one to.
Minimum take off speed, no lets make it negative take off speed, best demo Ive seen of that was a Chinook.
Ascend C.,
You might add:
First helicopter with infinitely adjustable & comfortable pilot's seats
First helicopter to put the collective & cyclic in a "natural" position, which doesn't result in permanent spinal distortion for the pilot
You might add:
First helicopter with infinitely adjustable & comfortable pilot's seats
First helicopter to put the collective & cyclic in a "natural" position, which doesn't result in permanent spinal distortion for the pilot
Shawn, good idea
I think that the new 'record' criteria should be in the form of an index so that an easy comparison can be made between types.
I reckon this could be usefully be expressed as a percentage of the max GW of the helo on the ramp in sea level ISA, compared to the max payload that the helicopter can actually carry at an IGE hover at 3000' at ISA.
For example: helo Max GW = 2500lbs at sea level ISA, helo can hover (conditions as mentioned) with payload of 400lbs, therefore 'index' percentage is 16%.
The value would be in being able to compare how quickly different helos payload performance deteriorates with altitude and also allows a meaningful power-to-weight ratio comparison to be made between types (without wading through the tables).
Flug
I think that the new 'record' criteria should be in the form of an index so that an easy comparison can be made between types.
I reckon this could be usefully be expressed as a percentage of the max GW of the helo on the ramp in sea level ISA, compared to the max payload that the helicopter can actually carry at an IGE hover at 3000' at ISA.
For example: helo Max GW = 2500lbs at sea level ISA, helo can hover (conditions as mentioned) with payload of 400lbs, therefore 'index' percentage is 16%.
The value would be in being able to compare how quickly different helos payload performance deteriorates with altitude and also allows a meaningful power-to-weight ratio comparison to be made between types (without wading through the tables).
Flug
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Getting it right
Having been in the industry since 1955 and working in assurance engineering since 1968 I would say it would be a record especially in the design of military helicopters if the airframe manufacturers got it right from the beginning. That helicopters were to meet the specifications developed by the military in order to be fielded and supported at an optimal cost and not constantly drain money from the US Treasury in order to correct the malfunctions that were never anticipated during the design phase.
Military helicopter programs suffer from cost overruns, which are in turn exacerbated by the changing levels of inflation. In operation military helicopters never meet the reliability predictions and / or availability requirements set down in the mil specs for the helicopter nor do they ever achieve the safety goals set down in the mil specs.
Having said that I would think that in order to set these records the mil specs that govern the various aspects of assurance engineering be changed in order to reflect real life and not just a bunch of numbers that can be manipulated in order to show compliance. This is one of the main reasons that the fielded helicopters do not meet spec requirements. Engineering management at the airframe manufacturers should also change their attitudes about assurance engineering and the interfaces with design engineering.
If all of this were accomplished a true record will have been set. Civil helicopters suffer from some of these same problems.
Military helicopter programs suffer from cost overruns, which are in turn exacerbated by the changing levels of inflation. In operation military helicopters never meet the reliability predictions and / or availability requirements set down in the mil specs for the helicopter nor do they ever achieve the safety goals set down in the mil specs.
Having said that I would think that in order to set these records the mil specs that govern the various aspects of assurance engineering be changed in order to reflect real life and not just a bunch of numbers that can be manipulated in order to show compliance. This is one of the main reasons that the fielded helicopters do not meet spec requirements. Engineering management at the airframe manufacturers should also change their attitudes about assurance engineering and the interfaces with design engineering.
If all of this were accomplished a true record will have been set. Civil helicopters suffer from some of these same problems.
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Shawn
What about hands off level (+/- 100ft) flight in a SAS less a/c.
If there was such a catagory then would my 33 mins is a HUGHES 300 between Saint Augustine and Jacksonville in 1989 whilst on a very boring cable patrol.
R22 drivers should not attempt this at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
er ---- Meaningfull
what about cost/ seat /nm based ICAO standard day at 3000' AMSL
PS I like fluplatz's idea
What about hands off level (+/- 100ft) flight in a SAS less a/c.
If there was such a catagory then would my 33 mins is a HUGHES 300 between Saint Augustine and Jacksonville in 1989 whilst on a very boring cable patrol.
R22 drivers should not attempt this at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
er ---- Meaningfull
what about cost/ seat /nm based ICAO standard day at 3000' AMSL
PS I like fluplatz's idea
