Bristow helicopter near miss with Tornado off Aberdeen
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Bristow helicopter near miss with Tornado off Aberdeen
HELICOPTER CARRYING OFFSHORE WORKERS HAS NEAR MISS WITH MILITARY AIRCRAFT
SCOTT MACNAB
09:00 - 06 February 2004
A Dozen offshore workers narrowly avoided a mid-air collision when a RAF Tornado came within feet of their helicopter yesterday.
The men were travelling back from Shell's Fulmar platform to Aberdeen on board a Su- per Puma when the near miss occurred at about 10.20am.
Passengers on the flight said the helicopter began shaking and losing altitude.
Operators Bristow's confirmed yesterday that a military aircraft was involved in the incident and that a report will be made to the Civil Aviation Authority.
One passenger who contacted the Press and Journal last night said the workers on board feared the worst. The passenger, who did not want to named, said: "I was sleeping, as most people do on board these helicopter flights, when I was woken up by this almighty roar.
"After that the helicopter started shaking violently and dropped maybe about 30 to 40 feet.
"Everyone started looking at each other and thinking we were going to go down."
The scare lasted for about 10 seconds, before the craft was eventually brought under control and resumed its journey to Aberdeen.
The man, who has been working offshore for about 15 years, added: "We were cruis- ing at about 1,000ft altitude at the time and visibility was good.
"The captain told us later that it was a Tornado and that it shouldn't have been in the airspace at the time. He said it passed about 30 to 50 feet away from us."
Its understood that there were two officers on board the flight from the Health and Safety Executive who had been investigating a separate incident on one of the platforms.
All the passengers were asked to wait behind in the Bristow's hangar at Aberdeen Airport after the incident, when the helicopter landed at 11am.
They were given a full briefing by the pilots about the incident and asked if they saw anything that the two crew might have missed.
A spokesman for Bristow's said last night that an "airprox report" had been made about the incident, the procedure pilots go through when another aircraft comes closer than it should.
He confirmed there were 12 passengers and two crew members on board at the time of the incident.
He added: "It was a military aircraft and it is standard procedure that a report goes to the Civil Aviation Authority."
An investigation would be carried out as a precaution, according to the spokesman.
He added: "There's no indication that there was any adverse effect on the helicopter."
No one from RAF Lossiemouth was unavailable for comment on the incident last night.
source
SCOTT MACNAB
09:00 - 06 February 2004
A Dozen offshore workers narrowly avoided a mid-air collision when a RAF Tornado came within feet of their helicopter yesterday.
The men were travelling back from Shell's Fulmar platform to Aberdeen on board a Su- per Puma when the near miss occurred at about 10.20am.
Passengers on the flight said the helicopter began shaking and losing altitude.
Operators Bristow's confirmed yesterday that a military aircraft was involved in the incident and that a report will be made to the Civil Aviation Authority.
One passenger who contacted the Press and Journal last night said the workers on board feared the worst. The passenger, who did not want to named, said: "I was sleeping, as most people do on board these helicopter flights, when I was woken up by this almighty roar.
"After that the helicopter started shaking violently and dropped maybe about 30 to 40 feet.
"Everyone started looking at each other and thinking we were going to go down."
The scare lasted for about 10 seconds, before the craft was eventually brought under control and resumed its journey to Aberdeen.
The man, who has been working offshore for about 15 years, added: "We were cruis- ing at about 1,000ft altitude at the time and visibility was good.
"The captain told us later that it was a Tornado and that it shouldn't have been in the airspace at the time. He said it passed about 30 to 50 feet away from us."
Its understood that there were two officers on board the flight from the Health and Safety Executive who had been investigating a separate incident on one of the platforms.
All the passengers were asked to wait behind in the Bristow's hangar at Aberdeen Airport after the incident, when the helicopter landed at 11am.
They were given a full briefing by the pilots about the incident and asked if they saw anything that the two crew might have missed.
A spokesman for Bristow's said last night that an "airprox report" had been made about the incident, the procedure pilots go through when another aircraft comes closer than it should.
He confirmed there were 12 passengers and two crew members on board at the time of the incident.
He added: "It was a military aircraft and it is standard procedure that a report goes to the Civil Aviation Authority."
An investigation would be carried out as a precaution, according to the spokesman.
He added: "There's no indication that there was any adverse effect on the helicopter."
No one from RAF Lossiemouth was unavailable for comment on the incident last night.
source
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Helicopter was actually inbound from fulmar, auk, sedco 711 and gannet. Heard that the turbulance from the tornado's wake was strong enough to knock the autopilot out, but guess all will be confirmed in the report.....
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Wonder what the recommendations would be after an alleged incident like this?
1. Civilian operators to repaint their aircraft in special (and rather expensive) light-emitting diode paint offering luminance of up to 100 million candlepower per square foot in all directions; and
2. Civilian operators to carry four mode-S transponders in each aircraft, each set to a different squawk so that hopefully an RAF jet will pick up at least one of them; and
3. Civilian helicopter crews to be given (unfortunately rather expensive) voice coaching so if they see a fighter barrelling toward them they can shout 'pull up!' sufficiently loudly for the crew to hear and react; and
4. Civilian operators to maintain a team dedicated to phoning Uxbridge every five minutes giving latest position reports; and
5. Civilian operators to suggest ways in which this kind of thing might be avoided in future, to report by February 2009; and
6. RAF crews told to look out a bit more.
1. Civilian operators to repaint their aircraft in special (and rather expensive) light-emitting diode paint offering luminance of up to 100 million candlepower per square foot in all directions; and
2. Civilian operators to carry four mode-S transponders in each aircraft, each set to a different squawk so that hopefully an RAF jet will pick up at least one of them; and
3. Civilian helicopter crews to be given (unfortunately rather expensive) voice coaching so if they see a fighter barrelling toward them they can shout 'pull up!' sufficiently loudly for the crew to hear and react; and
4. Civilian operators to maintain a team dedicated to phoning Uxbridge every five minutes giving latest position reports; and
5. Civilian operators to suggest ways in which this kind of thing might be avoided in future, to report by February 2009; and
6. RAF crews told to look out a bit more.
ah...way too shallow an approach....wait a bit and the Uniformed Mafia will all be made redundant and their function will be out-sourced to the civvies. That will then eliminate the traffic conflict and make it a CAA matter solely. In due time then, the ability for more than one aircraft to be airborne at all will go away. Problem solved through bureaucratic digression.
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How do you "knock" an autopilot out?
Heard that the turbulance from the tornado's wake was so strong, the autopilot was automatically DISCONNECTED.
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They were given a full briefing by the pilots about the incident and asked if they saw anything that the two crew might have missed.
Not the nicest of incidents but had it happen to me a few years ago with two of our chums in grey uniforms. Outcome of enquiry risk "C" as the tornado crew reported they had seen us and then went "Heads down in the cockpit to contiue their exercise". Not convinced myself as there was none of the usual wing waggling to show they'd seen us.
The recommendations weren't far off hilico's comments, other than to add we should stay out of the way of Military aircraft doing "High energy" manouvers, as it was wasting their time if they had to break off ad start over again.. still trying to work out how I get my helicopter flying at max 155 kts away from something doing 500 kts +
Nice
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Please don't view this as ignorance, its not, but how is this type if incident still occurring in this day and age ?
My parents recently bought a house from a lady who lost a son in a mid-air collision involving a military aircraft, hence my interest.
Hope its not too long before this kind of incident can be avoided altogether.
My parents recently bought a house from a lady who lost a son in a mid-air collision involving a military aircraft, hence my interest.
Hope its not too long before this kind of incident can be avoided altogether.
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Its interesting to see things from both sides. Some years ago I had a back seat flight in one of 899 Squadrons two seat Harriers, actually it was their first new model that they got. Those in the know would know it as the Navy's first black two seat Harrier. Was flying with an Aussie guy called Gavin Phillips. We were out somewhere around Devon/Cornwall area (sorry if area is not exact as it was some time ago) and were cruising around low level and next minute a Bell 206B popped up over a hill doing a nice big hammerhead in front of a farm house.
We were coming up the hill and the only option we had, as we were going quite quickly, was to stay extremely low as if we had climbed we probably would have hit him square on. Needless to say nerves were a little tense, at least on our side. After we got back it was interesting that no near miss report was ever filed, as according to ATC they never had any record of him and after a few expletives from Gavin we carried on our merry way. I asked him if this was a regular thing and he said from time to time they will come close to helos that pop up unannounced. So it does happen to both sides.
Saying that with the types of radars the fast movers have in them these days they should be able to pick up targets at least a hundred miles away and from what I have seen in the US they are almost always aware that the helo is there before the helo ever sees them.
Anyway just my two cents worth.
Autorotate.
We were coming up the hill and the only option we had, as we were going quite quickly, was to stay extremely low as if we had climbed we probably would have hit him square on. Needless to say nerves were a little tense, at least on our side. After we got back it was interesting that no near miss report was ever filed, as according to ATC they never had any record of him and after a few expletives from Gavin we carried on our merry way. I asked him if this was a regular thing and he said from time to time they will come close to helos that pop up unannounced. So it does happen to both sides.
Saying that with the types of radars the fast movers have in them these days they should be able to pick up targets at least a hundred miles away and from what I have seen in the US they are almost always aware that the helo is there before the helo ever sees them.
Anyway just my two cents worth.
Autorotate.
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No disrespect to either side, but Isn't this happening a little too often?
In the case of the North Sea, the military crews should be aware of the high intesity helicopter operation in that sector after the number of years that they have been there. And unfortunatley the helicopters will be sitting ducks if the mil guy is too busy looking inside and on course for a collision.
With respect to helicopters in uncontrolled airspace, by speaking to no-one, they only cause an unessicary risk to all operating in that area.
Unfortunatley there is not enough awarness from both sides, but I do also find it concerning that the military guys continue to have air prox in the same sector with the north sea boys - isn't part of flying the constant learning?
In the case of the North Sea, the military crews should be aware of the high intesity helicopter operation in that sector after the number of years that they have been there. And unfortunatley the helicopters will be sitting ducks if the mil guy is too busy looking inside and on course for a collision.
With respect to helicopters in uncontrolled airspace, by speaking to no-one, they only cause an unessicary risk to all operating in that area.
Unfortunatley there is not enough awarness from both sides, but I do also find it concerning that the military guys continue to have air prox in the same sector with the north sea boys - isn't part of flying the constant learning?
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The system of not allowing crossing of helicopter routes below 4000ft without contacting the relevant ATC unit has worked quite well over here, at least until the Italian Air Force come on a visit..... 
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Radar detection!??
Little bird told me that these miltary fast jets adjust their radar to exclude any traffic travelling less than about 80mph so as to avoid clutter with high speed cars on motorways etc.
I've no idea if this is true but it does concern me slightly when I am out sightseeing and tootling around at 65kts in my r22.
I fly privately in Scotland and wouldn't dream of moving around in uncontrolled airspace without speaking to somebody, preferably MATZ (since they usually know about the 'low and fast' stuff.)
Herbie.
I've no idea if this is true but it does concern me slightly when I am out sightseeing and tootling around at 65kts in my r22.
I fly privately in Scotland and wouldn't dream of moving around in uncontrolled airspace without speaking to somebody, preferably MATZ (since they usually know about the 'low and fast' stuff.)
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Agree that civvies can also give the military stuff a scare and come out of the blue, but this latest incident happened in perfect VMC. Even if the tornado's crew knew about the 332 from radar there would surely have to be questions asked as to how it could fly so close infront, knowing that there might be just a tad of turbulent air left behind! What ever the reasons for the extremely close proximity, I hope something constructive will come of this.
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With respect to helicopters in uncontrolled airspace, by speaking to no-one, they only cause an unessicary risk to all operating in that area.
The helicopters tend to talk to air traffic, assuming the radio works in their patch of the North Sea. Haven't flown there for a while but there were areas where you couldn't talk to air traffic due to your range from their receivers.
If you meant onshore, again there are areas where you cannot talk to someone even if you wanted to.
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Near miss...
Shouldn't that TCAS system be available to civillian aircraft soon, or is it just soooo expensive that your man "pootling in his R22 at 65 kts" just cant afford it?? 
There seems to be too many of these Airprox's going on. I seem to remember that in air law that priority went along the lines of :-
1) Balloons
2) Gliders
3) Airships
4) Heavier than air, power driven craft
No mention of lunatic Tornado's doing 500 kts.
Next time you fly through a MATZ or the odd low flying training area, i.e. where a Tornado should pop up, pre-empt the encounter by setting 7700 Mode C on your transponder, At least then ATC will know you are "Distressed"
Keep your eyes open guys and safe flying
MD
There seems to be too many of these Airprox's going on. I seem to remember that in air law that priority went along the lines of :-
1) Balloons
2) Gliders
3) Airships
4) Heavier than air, power driven craft
No mention of lunatic Tornado's doing 500 kts.
Next time you fly through a MATZ or the odd low flying training area, i.e. where a Tornado should pop up, pre-empt the encounter by setting 7700 Mode C on your transponder, At least then ATC will know you are "Distressed"
Keep your eyes open guys and safe flying
MD
MD900:
Not only is it a question of cost, but light helicopters haven't got too much spare payload for a TCAS system - I would think however that a twin turbojet pointy nosed thing would have a few kilos spare, and if not then a few less pies for the drivers.
But of course that means a 5 year procurement cycle, spending taxpayers' money on something useful instead of pensions for civil servants . . .
Not only is it a question of cost, but light helicopters haven't got too much spare payload for a TCAS system - I would think however that a twin turbojet pointy nosed thing would have a few kilos spare, and if not then a few less pies for the drivers.
But of course that means a 5 year procurement cycle, spending taxpayers' money on something useful instead of pensions for civil servants . . .
Crazy Scandihooligan
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NR Fairy
What about systems like Garmin 1000, they don't weigh a tonne or two, i believe they have a built in TCAS and a terrain identifying system and Mode S.
I know that Robinson are offering this bitr of kit from March this year. An R22 with TCAS built in. Never thought i would see an R22 with a glass cockpit.
MD
I know that Robinson are offering this bitr of kit from March this year. An R22 with TCAS built in. Never thought i would see an R22 with a glass cockpit.
MD
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With regard to the post made by Power Up reference to "helicopters in uncontrolled airspace not talking to anyone". If he is refering to the North Sea, he is completely wrong!
With the rebro system now in place, N. Sea helos can speak to Aberdeen ATC anywhere within the Helicopter Main Route structure. The HMRs are published in the RAF books and charts as well as all the civil ones. There is no excuse for military aircraft not to know where the helicopters are likely to be!
As an ex army driver, I can remember a few occasions when helos were almost knocked out of the sky by 'over exuberant' jet jockeys: I know, I was one of them!
Bet your bottom dollar/euro that the 'official' report will deny the Tornado was even there; and if they admit that it was, 'there was no danger of collision!'
Call me a cynic, but the Hutton Report is not the only whitewash around.
With the rebro system now in place, N. Sea helos can speak to Aberdeen ATC anywhere within the Helicopter Main Route structure. The HMRs are published in the RAF books and charts as well as all the civil ones. There is no excuse for military aircraft not to know where the helicopters are likely to be!
As an ex army driver, I can remember a few occasions when helos were almost knocked out of the sky by 'over exuberant' jet jockeys: I know, I was one of them!
Bet your bottom dollar/euro that the 'official' report will deny the Tornado was even there; and if they admit that it was, 'there was no danger of collision!'
Call me a cynic, but the Hutton Report is not the only whitewash around.
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Helicopters v Fast Jets
Some thoughts on the above:
1. The near miss occurred in the open FIR Class G airspace so both parties had a perfect right to be there.
2. The UK Airprox Board will invariably discount the perception of miss distance and altitude separation offered by the helicopter crew as inaccurate, presumably because of the preponderance of military representatives on the Board.
3. The Tornado crew will no doubt report seeing the helicopter at 5 kms and took avoiding action, so if 4g at 420 knots still took them too close, so sorry.
4. The Board will only consider testimony from the crews involved, so no matter how many frightened passengers write to Gordon McRobbie at The UK Airprox Board, Hillingdon House, RAF Uxbridge, Middlesex, their views will count for nought!
5.The view persists among many of the military, that any UK airspace below 2000 feet should be regarded as fast jet playground and other users venturing in there can expect a bloody nose.
6. Bristows should be encouraged to publicise this incident to the wider world in the hope of getting the military to adopt a sensible attitude to the fitting of collision avoidance equipment to fast jets.
Beware of weasels!
1. The near miss occurred in the open FIR Class G airspace so both parties had a perfect right to be there.
2. The UK Airprox Board will invariably discount the perception of miss distance and altitude separation offered by the helicopter crew as inaccurate, presumably because of the preponderance of military representatives on the Board.
3. The Tornado crew will no doubt report seeing the helicopter at 5 kms and took avoiding action, so if 4g at 420 knots still took them too close, so sorry.
4. The Board will only consider testimony from the crews involved, so no matter how many frightened passengers write to Gordon McRobbie at The UK Airprox Board, Hillingdon House, RAF Uxbridge, Middlesex, their views will count for nought!
5.The view persists among many of the military, that any UK airspace below 2000 feet should be regarded as fast jet playground and other users venturing in there can expect a bloody nose.
6. Bristows should be encouraged to publicise this incident to the wider world in the hope of getting the military to adopt a sensible attitude to the fitting of collision avoidance equipment to fast jets.
Beware of weasels!
Lets put some of the whingers here at 250 feet and 500 kts and see just how good your lookout is!