Obtaining an FAA Professional Licence
Join Date: Dec 2003
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I would strongly recommend that you find a school that teaches FAA and CAA (JAA) courses. Why? Because you will spend the same amount of money converting your licence, as it cost to obtain it in the first place.
If you can end up with a stand alone FAA and JAA licences. This will mean taking two sets of medicals each time but it will give you a great amount of flexibility in your flying in Europe and the States. The school should run the courses concurrently with no real increase in cost but you may be required to sit 2 General Handling Tests (If the examiner is not dual certified).
To return to the UK with just a FAA PPL licence would be a bad move.
Hope this helps.
Any other questions just ask.
If you can end up with a stand alone FAA and JAA licences. This will mean taking two sets of medicals each time but it will give you a great amount of flexibility in your flying in Europe and the States. The school should run the courses concurrently with no real increase in cost but you may be required to sit 2 General Handling Tests (If the examiner is not dual certified).
To return to the UK with just a FAA PPL licence would be a bad move.
Hope this helps.
Any other questions just ask.
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Assuming the UK is out, there are 3 options that spring to mind :-
1) Go to another JAA Member state where the exhange rate and/or built in costs are a bit cheaper.
2) Get a JAA license in the US - as far as I'm aware only one school is able to provide the full JAA course and that is Helicopter Adventures in Florida (www.heli.com)
3) Get a regular FAA PPL and do the conversion in a JAA country other than the UK (Norway for example).
As for work. Well you're right; getting a job with just a CPL is a very long shot.
The accepted path is to get PPL(H), CPL(H), CFI(H) and instruct for hours (possibly adding an IR and CFI/I to that).
However in that case your numbers are light. FAA ratings up to CFI(I) in the US for this are going to be more like 30000UKP. For equivalent JAA ratings done in the US, it'll be more like 35000UKP.
Finally factor in living costs while doing this (will probably take a little under a year) and then a low salary while instructing (since your pay is largely the hours you're getting).
I'm guessing it'll take around 5 years to get into a reasonable job where I can live a 'normal income' life again (I've only just started the process myself). In the meantime I have to watch the pennies v. carefully.
Cheers,
r.
1) Go to another JAA Member state where the exhange rate and/or built in costs are a bit cheaper.
2) Get a JAA license in the US - as far as I'm aware only one school is able to provide the full JAA course and that is Helicopter Adventures in Florida (www.heli.com)
3) Get a regular FAA PPL and do the conversion in a JAA country other than the UK (Norway for example).
As for work. Well you're right; getting a job with just a CPL is a very long shot.
The accepted path is to get PPL(H), CPL(H), CFI(H) and instruct for hours (possibly adding an IR and CFI/I to that).
However in that case your numbers are light. FAA ratings up to CFI(I) in the US for this are going to be more like 30000UKP. For equivalent JAA ratings done in the US, it'll be more like 35000UKP.
Finally factor in living costs while doing this (will probably take a little under a year) and then a low salary while instructing (since your pay is largely the hours you're getting).
I'm guessing it'll take around 5 years to get into a reasonable job where I can live a 'normal income' life again (I've only just started the process myself). In the meantime I have to watch the pennies v. carefully.
Cheers,
r.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: uk
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Lightning Boy
There is no problem with converting an FAA PPL to a JAR PPL, but there are some requirements that must be met for license issue.
You must have at least a JAR class 2 medical, you must pass the current PPL air law exam, and the PPL skills test.
How much training you ay require to do this will be a matter to be assessed by your instructor, as there are differences between the 2 syllabi.
In general though provided you have been taught thoroughly for your FAA license, and do sufficient dual to become familiar with UK airspace and procedures, you will not have a problem.
There is no problem with converting an FAA PPL to a JAR PPL, but there are some requirements that must be met for license issue.
You must have at least a JAR class 2 medical, you must pass the current PPL air law exam, and the PPL skills test.
How much training you ay require to do this will be a matter to be assessed by your instructor, as there are differences between the 2 syllabi.
In general though provided you have been taught thoroughly for your FAA license, and do sufficient dual to become familiar with UK airspace and procedures, you will not have a problem.
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Thanks for all the help guys, most appreciated. I can see its gonna be a long twisting road, hope its gonna be worth it when I get there.Many Thanks
Lightning Boy
Alternatively, if you have a JAA PPL (which you can do in the US) then you can go through a short paper trail and FAA will issue you with an FAA PPL which (I quote from mine in front of me) is..
"Issued on basis of and valid only when accompanied by United Kingdom Pilot License Number...
All limitations and restrictions on the United Kingdom pilot license apply".
This is obviously only for private use, but nonetheless is probably the easiest way to have both PPLs.
Okay, I'm a plank pilot with just an engineering interest in rotaries, but so far as I'm aware there is no difference in this between FW and rotary.
G
"Issued on basis of and valid only when accompanied by United Kingdom Pilot License Number...
All limitations and restrictions on the United Kingdom pilot license apply".
This is obviously only for private use, but nonetheless is probably the easiest way to have both PPLs.
Okay, I'm a plank pilot with just an engineering interest in rotaries, but so far as I'm aware there is no difference in this between FW and rotary.
G
Join Date: Oct 2003
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I tried to resist saying that some of the replies are way out in price but here goes. My interest is I am the owner of Dutch Country Helicopters in Pennsylvania. At the moment, from scratch if you have no flying time at all, fixed wing or rotary a private will cost 40 hours x $200 or £4395. A 150 hour commercial is £16,393. If you have 100 hours fixed wing it is 50 hours only or £5464 at todays exchange rate.
If you are really serious about wanting to fly for a living some schools will employ you as a CFI if you train from scratch with them. I have certainly employed ex-students. You will probably get at least 1000 hours in 2 years.
A JAR compliant licence is of more use than either a standalone FAA or JAA licence. It will enable you to fly anywhere in the world without conversion.
I'm afraid that anyone telling you that the USA is not cheaper is dreaming. We charge £109 per flying hour for a Bell 47. Anyone in the UK beat that? No landing fees, fly 24 hours a day, no 500 foot rule. Paradise!
If you are really serious about wanting to fly for a living some schools will employ you as a CFI if you train from scratch with them. I have certainly employed ex-students. You will probably get at least 1000 hours in 2 years.
A JAR compliant licence is of more use than either a standalone FAA or JAA licence. It will enable you to fly anywhere in the world without conversion.
I'm afraid that anyone telling you that the USA is not cheaper is dreaming. We charge £109 per flying hour for a Bell 47. Anyone in the UK beat that? No landing fees, fly 24 hours a day, no 500 foot rule. Paradise!
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Since I was the only one to quote figures, I guess your comment about costs being off was directed at mine.
The difference is, the costs I quoted are for ab intitio to CFI/I that still runs to around $40000 if you do it in minimums.
Guess at more like $45000 for average and as high as $60000 if you pick it up slow. I heard of one person taking $25000 just to get their private because the school they were at wasn't too good.
A commercial license appears to be pretty much next to useless by itself so you may as well just stop at PPL.
Other thing is, everyone will quote the minimums to the various qualifications, but the average round here is more like 50 hours to PPL.
r.
The difference is, the costs I quoted are for ab intitio to CFI/I that still runs to around $40000 if you do it in minimums.
Guess at more like $45000 for average and as high as $60000 if you pick it up slow. I heard of one person taking $25000 just to get their private because the school they were at wasn't too good.
A commercial license appears to be pretty much next to useless by itself so you may as well just stop at PPL.
Other thing is, everyone will quote the minimums to the various qualifications, but the average round here is more like 50 hours to PPL.
r.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Land Down Under
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Faa Atpl(h)
Does anyone know about going to the states with a Australian CPL(H) and a few thopusand hours and doing a ATPL(H)?
the best place to go to do it?
How much does it cost?
What you have to do and is it easy to transfer it back into a Australian ATPL(H)?
the best place to go to do it?
How much does it cost?
What you have to do and is it easy to transfer it back into a Australian ATPL(H)?
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Longline
You will first need to get an FAA CPL issued, but first you need a clearance from FAA and imigration I think, before entering the country for flight training.
Then go to the States roll up to the FAA ,they will issue a PPL H based on your CASA CPL, then sit your CPL exam and flight test and get your FAA CPL.
Then under go IFR training, do some in a fixed Wing Dual dont worry about not having a FW licence , they accept this, then sit your 1 ATP exam and flight test.
Your best bet is contact Ron Gudstafson at Avia flight Services in Corvallis Oregon , He has done dozens of Australian and NZ conversions to FAA, he is a good bloke and he will not misled you. he runs a good outfit and I am sure you will enjoy the experience.
Conversion to CASA I am not sure about but under the Kiwi system you must have gained 500 hrs on the ATPL before they will reconize it, but then again they are the NZ CAA
"C***ts Against Aviation"
You will first need to get an FAA CPL issued, but first you need a clearance from FAA and imigration I think, before entering the country for flight training.
Then go to the States roll up to the FAA ,they will issue a PPL H based on your CASA CPL, then sit your CPL exam and flight test and get your FAA CPL.
Then under go IFR training, do some in a fixed Wing Dual dont worry about not having a FW licence , they accept this, then sit your 1 ATP exam and flight test.
Your best bet is contact Ron Gudstafson at Avia flight Services in Corvallis Oregon , He has done dozens of Australian and NZ conversions to FAA, he is a good bloke and he will not misled you. he runs a good outfit and I am sure you will enjoy the experience.
Conversion to CASA I am not sure about but under the Kiwi system you must have gained 500 hrs on the ATPL before they will reconize it, but then again they are the NZ CAA
"C***ts Against Aviation"
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Hey Loneline,
I went to the States with a CAA (UK) CPL/IR and because I already had the hours to Qualify for the FAA ATP, I just did the instrument flying training and took the ATP checkride( which is almost identical to the instrument checkride) took the written and got my ATP without doing the commercial first, saved a whole bunch of time and money. I'm 99% sure that if you already have the hours to qualify (can't remember how many it is and my FAR/AIM has gone missing)!!! than you should be able to do this.
Just get your FAA private licence issued and start training on that.
I went to helicopter adventures in Titusville Florida and found them to be very professional.
All the best ,
Fatigue.
I went to the States with a CAA (UK) CPL/IR and because I already had the hours to Qualify for the FAA ATP, I just did the instrument flying training and took the ATP checkride( which is almost identical to the instrument checkride) took the written and got my ATP without doing the commercial first, saved a whole bunch of time and money. I'm 99% sure that if you already have the hours to qualify (can't remember how many it is and my FAR/AIM has gone missing)!!! than you should be able to do this.
Just get your FAA private licence issued and start training on that.
I went to helicopter adventures in Titusville Florida and found them to be very professional.
All the best ,
Fatigue.
Gatvol
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Transfering it back to Australian? Sounds like your trying to skirt something down under. Before you go to all that expense you had better check with those in the know down there or you may end up with an FAA ATP you cannot use.
If possible then the questions have been answered and the FAA exams are pretty straight Forward. A little study and a written with a BIG checkride and your in business.
If possible then the questions have been answered and the FAA exams are pretty straight Forward. A little study and a written with a BIG checkride and your in business.
An important aspect is how many night flight hours do you have? Australian pilots with 100+ night hours are few and far between (unless you fly twins), and you need 100 night hours to get an FAA ATPL rotorcraft certificate. So unless you have a 100 night hours forget about the FAA ATP certificate. And in any event, even if you have the FAA ATP you still need the required minimum hours (TT & PIC) for the CASA ATPL-H licence.
Join Date: Dec 2003
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FAA - CASA ATPL
You trying to get something for nothing??
The FAA ATPL with Exams is the easiest licence in the world to get, and being able to do the IFR component in a VFR R22 was a no brainer.
I have heard of guys just studying the books and answers on the 14 hr flight from YSSY to LAX and getting 100% on the exam....I had to have an extra nights study in a hotel and only got a 98%.
But Mate once you have that ATPL it is not worth a pinch of nanny goat stuff back in OZ.
If your thinking about being a professional Australian Helicopter Pilot, there is only one way to do that....study study and study, then feel good after you pass. Then do your IFR Traini ng in a proper aircraft in cloud.
Rant Over.
The FAA ATPL with Exams is the easiest licence in the world to get, and being able to do the IFR component in a VFR R22 was a no brainer.
I have heard of guys just studying the books and answers on the 14 hr flight from YSSY to LAX and getting 100% on the exam....I had to have an extra nights study in a hotel and only got a 98%.
But Mate once you have that ATPL it is not worth a pinch of nanny goat stuff back in OZ.
If your thinking about being a professional Australian Helicopter Pilot, there is only one way to do that....study study and study, then feel good after you pass. Then do your IFR Traini ng in a proper aircraft in cloud.
Rant Over.
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Hey Aussie Mate,
have to agree with ya about the FAA ATP exams (ground and flight).....it is just like the Ameican high school system, if you fail an exam you can take the same one again, and again, and again, and again and when you finally pass you're are told how good you have done.......instead of the truth that you are as thick as sh*t!!!!!!!! It's the american way of doing things
have to agree with ya about the FAA ATP exams (ground and flight).....it is just like the Ameican high school system, if you fail an exam you can take the same one again, and again, and again, and again and when you finally pass you're are told how good you have done.......instead of the truth that you are as thick as sh*t!!!!!!!! It's the american way of doing things
Join Date: Oct 2003
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The American way of doing things............................if thats how you feel, you better leave 50% of the worlds heli's parked on the ground! They were built with American ingenuity. Then, ya better ground half the Hawk pilots at Wogga Wogga. They were trained by American's! Then you better.........screw it .....FU!
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Hey Polar Bear.....
Geeee...Wagga Wagga is with "a's" not "o's"......and there's no Hawks down there either.
Trained by the Poms I think, and based at Willytown, not to far away at Mach 1.......!!
Unfortunately, the EC now has over 50% of both rotary and the big jet market. Not looking forward to Europe as much as I did Florida and Texas.
Trained by the Poms I think, and based at Willytown, not to far away at Mach 1.......!!
Unfortunately, the EC now has over 50% of both rotary and the big jet market. Not looking forward to Europe as much as I did Florida and Texas.
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I have a question
If my aim was to work in the UK and keep training costs down:-
-Wouldnt it be better to do a FAA PPL(H), hour build in the USA, and come back and complete a 30 hour modular course in England rather than
-Pay for your FAA CPL(H) in USA, then come back and convert it, as this way, you have to pay for the CPL exams in the USA and then the UK too.
Which option do you think is better?
Thanks
If my aim was to work in the UK and keep training costs down:-
-Wouldnt it be better to do a FAA PPL(H), hour build in the USA, and come back and complete a 30 hour modular course in England rather than
-Pay for your FAA CPL(H) in USA, then come back and convert it, as this way, you have to pay for the CPL exams in the USA and then the UK too.
Which option do you think is better?
Thanks