Should Police helicopters be armed?
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Arming police helicopters
If terrorism is on the increase, and this is most likely due to Bush/Blair attack Iraq which will be a recruiting drive for would be terrorists. Is it time that the police armed their helicopters to confront the terrorists?
This thought is based upon the knowledge that any upgrading program takes time to implement.
This thought is based upon the knowledge that any upgrading program takes time to implement.
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And, if we're making changes ......
Recent co-operation between the Eastern Cape Health Department and a local helicopter service, AV8 Helicopters, has resulted in the availability of an airborne search and rescue dog unit. Police practised using the helicopter hoist under the instruction of AV8 Helicopter pilots. The dogs use special harnessing and are attached to their handlers during the rescue operation.
Dogs are trained for both land and sea rescues. Any dog that drops below the required high standard is taken off active duty.
"Although the dogs appeared nervous on their first run, they soon settled into the harnesses and appeared to gain much from the training."
Recent co-operation between the Eastern Cape Health Department and a local helicopter service, AV8 Helicopters, has resulted in the availability of an airborne search and rescue dog unit. Police practised using the helicopter hoist under the instruction of AV8 Helicopter pilots. The dogs use special harnessing and are attached to their handlers during the rescue operation.
Dogs are trained for both land and sea rescues. Any dog that drops below the required high standard is taken off active duty.
"Although the dogs appeared nervous on their first run, they soon settled into the harnesses and appeared to gain much from the training."
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Last edited by Heliport; 16th Jan 2003 at 14:57.
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Do you think a terrorist can be realistically confronted by an armed police helicopter?
Speaking as someone who was trained to do it for specific tasks in two previous roles, one military and one civilian, the answer is an extremely large NO.
In an urban area, the use of armed helicopters against ground personnel would be disastrous. Look at what has been happening in Palestinian territory for a good example.
Speaking as someone who was trained to do it for specific tasks in two previous roles, one military and one civilian, the answer is an extremely large NO.
In an urban area, the use of armed helicopters against ground personnel would be disastrous. Look at what has been happening in Palestinian territory for a good example.
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Opinion
Police Helicopters are better used for Observation or Command and Control. Sometimes lightly armed for SWAT missions. However if you have to arm them beyond that I believe the situation is well out of control and it becomes a Military Action
Police Helicopters are better used for Observation or Command and Control. Sometimes lightly armed for SWAT missions. However if you have to arm them beyond that I believe the situation is well out of control and it becomes a Military Action
We actually requested an A model Apache as our new aircraft. Unfortunately the Chief Constable insisted that there be two observers in the aircraft, so we had to make do with a 135(that's EC not RC)!
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The very nature of a terrorist operation requires a small number of attackers, usually one or two, operating against the target location or person.
Given the degree of training and equipment complexity required to put a single AT missile on a tank in an open battlefield, the requirements for a civil police aircraft to be able to safely and accurately oppose one or two (probably unidentified) terrorists in a populated urban area have to be beyond any reasonable consideration.
Additionally given the nature of popularity politics, I seriously doubt if any senior police officer or relevent government official would want to risk their career on the thought of mission failure or collateral damage/casualties.
But that's just my opinion
Given the degree of training and equipment complexity required to put a single AT missile on a tank in an open battlefield, the requirements for a civil police aircraft to be able to safely and accurately oppose one or two (probably unidentified) terrorists in a populated urban area have to be beyond any reasonable consideration.
Additionally given the nature of popularity politics, I seriously doubt if any senior police officer or relevent government official would want to risk their career on the thought of mission failure or collateral damage/casualties.
But that's just my opinion
By sheer coincidence I was chewing over the same topic [of armed police helicopters] with a European correspondent and the matter of armed helicopters in the USA came up.
Firstly it was clear that the JAA takes a dim view on arming civil aircraft. One national arm was 'obliged' to move from civil registration to government aircraft in 2000 over that issue.
Nearly all US police aircraft are armed.... in general this relates to personal sidearms [in case they come down in bandit territory?] but a few [civil registered] units carry machine guns and make a big thing of spraying a bit of their local Californian desert with practice rounds to keep their hand in.
Quite which brand of 'customer' would require this treatment is unclear.
If the JAA doesnt like it it might be assumed that the FAA ought to follow ... not so it seems in California.
Firstly it was clear that the JAA takes a dim view on arming civil aircraft. One national arm was 'obliged' to move from civil registration to government aircraft in 2000 over that issue.
Nearly all US police aircraft are armed.... in general this relates to personal sidearms [in case they come down in bandit territory?] but a few [civil registered] units carry machine guns and make a big thing of spraying a bit of their local Californian desert with practice rounds to keep their hand in.
Quite which brand of 'customer' would require this treatment is unclear.
If the JAA doesnt like it it might be assumed that the FAA ought to follow ... not so it seems in California.
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OK if arming police rotay is not yet your ideal it would however seem logical to provide some form of armour protection for the crew and vital organs of the helicopter as a safety consideration. Believing that the terrorist will fire on any form of threat to their operations.
Police helicopter shot down by terrorist. This is a likely headline.
So now is the time to act.
Police helicopter shot down by terrorist. This is a likely headline.
So now is the time to act.
FAA...JAR...CAA....this argument shall shortly assume the same routine as the on-going fuss about armed cops on the street in the US, UK, and other locales.
Ask the coppers that got stabbed....one fatally.....about the need for guns and armor when dealing with people that intend you harm even at loss of their own life.
Dear Andy....choruses of Koombahyah don't cut it when the rascal's are out to do you and your way of life in.....the only heat application that works is that which frees their spirit to the nether regions and all those virgins.
Ask the coppers that got stabbed....one fatally.....about the need for guns and armor when dealing with people that intend you harm even at loss of their own life.
Dear Andy....choruses of Koombahyah don't cut it when the rascal's are out to do you and your way of life in.....the only heat application that works is that which frees their spirit to the nether regions and all those virgins.
As far as the UK police are concerned I think you will be hard placed to find any change in attitude on the question of body armour or guns.... everything in its place as required, but generally no guns and no general issue of body armour...
Very unfortunate in the recent instance but officers in the Uk are not yet 'falling like flies.'
Very unfortunate in the recent instance but officers in the Uk are not yet 'falling like flies.'
Tell that to the widow and children of the fallen officer.....the vest and/or cut proof clothing is a no brainer.......of course....proper use of handcuffs and restraint techiques might have helped prevent that tragedy too.
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Arming Police Helicopters?
Have never heard such crap on this forum!
Think about how often a situtation has ever arisen were there has been a need to use an armed Helo other then in an open Warzone. Beause I can't! Having well trained, armed snipers possibly would be more useful and acceptable to the public, I personally do not want the police force to be seen as another branch of the military, there is no need for it, and could only become counterproductive..
Let the Banter Continue.....
Have never heard such crap on this forum!
Think about how often a situtation has ever arisen were there has been a need to use an armed Helo other then in an open Warzone. Beause I can't! Having well trained, armed snipers possibly would be more useful and acceptable to the public, I personally do not want the police force to be seen as another branch of the military, there is no need for it, and could only become counterproductive..
Let the Banter Continue.....
....the vest and/or cut proof clothing is a no brainer.......of course....proper use of handcuffs and restraint techiques might have helped prevent that tragedy too.
That appears to be an over simplification of what may have happened in Manchester... they went to a 'breeze' and all of a sudden it seems to have turned serious on them.
In most instances that sort of scenrio would have resulted in body armour being left behind anyway. Personal issue handcuffs? Well they are a new invention anyway and the same applies! Any automatic handcuffing in the Uk is a very recent development ... if there was no violence offered at a 'breeze' type scenario there would be little reason to use them. ... although that it slowly changing as officers wise up ...
Thats life I am afraid.
That appears to be an over simplification of what may have happened in Manchester... they went to a 'breeze' and all of a sudden it seems to have turned serious on them.
In most instances that sort of scenrio would have resulted in body armour being left behind anyway. Personal issue handcuffs? Well they are a new invention anyway and the same applies! Any automatic handcuffing in the Uk is a very recent development ... if there was no violence offered at a 'breeze' type scenario there would be little reason to use them. ... although that it slowly changing as officers wise up ...
Thats life I am afraid.
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PANews writes:
"but a few [civil registered] units carry machine guns and make a big thing of spraying a bit of their local Californian desert with practice rounds to keep their hand in. :
Very Interesting, but I think you will find that its in Southern Arizona and that it is a Manufacturer doing testing......If its in California Im sure unless its Government Contracted or Law Enforcement it would be a big No-No. Consider that most all Law Enforcement Aircraft are "Civil Registered"
Drop a name or two......
"but a few [civil registered] units carry machine guns and make a big thing of spraying a bit of their local Californian desert with practice rounds to keep their hand in. :
Very Interesting, but I think you will find that its in Southern Arizona and that it is a Manufacturer doing testing......If its in California Im sure unless its Government Contracted or Law Enforcement it would be a big No-No. Consider that most all Law Enforcement Aircraft are "Civil Registered"
Drop a name or two......